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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#221 - 2016-10-12 19:59:33 UTC
michael chasseur wrote:
i've never gambled but i think it's funny that CCP bans all the things that do their job better, or make light of how terrible their own company is


Well, consider this as an opportunity for Pandemic Legion. As one of the wealthiest alliances in the game, I'm sure you and yours could put a mere fraction of your substantial wealth into filling the void of community building that IWI and its ilk left behind.

Goonswarm Federation would do it, but after being utterly defeated and driven to irrelevance in the Casino Wars, we lack the ability to effectively shepherd such a venture. Pandemic Legion, adored by all, would be far more effective at the role.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#222 - 2016-10-12 20:00:01 UTC
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#223 - 2016-10-12 20:01:20 UTC
I think I posted the original link to the UK upcoming court case..

What I would like to now know is if the abomination that was masquerading as Care For Kids citadel network has also been removed?

When it was first announced I posted that I had reservations about it considering who was involved, now it seems that those reservations were indeed founded. I suspected instantly that it was just a way to hide isk/cash/rmt, a few agreed but sadly the thread was closed.
Aspen Neva
#224 - 2016-10-12 20:01:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aspen Neva
Morrow Disca wrote:


I also heard that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.


If you fit 9+10 torpedos you could easily trump a beam.

ps: not a fitting expert.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2016-10-12 20:05:14 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.


Yeah, you're right RMT is not a sufficient reason to ban IWI.

Might want to re-word that....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#226 - 2016-10-12 20:08:11 UTC
Minerva Arbosa wrote:
Elliott Spitzer wrote:
Toobo wrote:
If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.


What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved.


There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.



Why on earth would the CCP Security Team publish how they found them out?

Do you seriously expect them to tell everyone the secret, just so everyone can find a way around it?
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#227 - 2016-10-12 20:08:18 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing
Aurure
some random local shitlords
#228 - 2016-10-12 20:08:48 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Querns wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So ban RMT'ers and let the legit sites keep going is what you're saying?

Sites like the eve poker site that has existed for years?

I mean seriously boat, I know you're supposed to carry the hate boner flag for GSF after the war happened but this is dumb, people will still gamble, gambling has been in eve since time began, shutting down the sites that power the community wont do a damn thing to stop it and only serve to hurt the community.

In order for game balance to be restored, all gambling must perish. The game should not be dictated by who has the better out-of-game wealth concentration scheme. Your bloviating about the how casinos "power the community" is no different than Al Capone's soup kitchens.


Although you are a goon and may have personal gripes with IWI, I do agree with you here. But this is a game balance issue to be discussed and phased out in correct steps to bring the game into good state. If CCP said no more gambling as we feel that this affects the game in negative ways, set times, give notices, and let things run its course for the improvement of the game, heck, I can accept that and say bye bye to ISK gambling.

What's better for the game is good for all, so if CCP feels that banning ISK gambling is good for the game and the community concurs on that, fair enough. But my gripe is with the way handled this and pretty much screwed loads of people who did not break EULA in any ways.



This just in: These EULA changes go live next month, not today. So there's your time set and notice given.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#229 - 2016-10-12 20:09:46 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing


Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#230 - 2016-10-12 20:12:01 UTC
Minerva Arbosa wrote:
Elliott Spitzer wrote:
Toobo wrote:
If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.


What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved.


There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.



Or they don't want to reveal how they know so the next guy covers their tracks better. They stand to lose out on plex purchases from compulsive gamblers. So they would want to have cause.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2016-10-12 20:13:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing


Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned.



Ding-ding-ding....

Everybody seems to have forgotten the first round of bans.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#232 - 2016-10-12 20:13:40 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.


Yeah, you're right RMT is not a sufficient reason to ban IWI.

Might want to re-word that....

I'm not rewording it because that's not what I said.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#233 - 2016-10-12 20:13:54 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Querns wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing


Not just once, but twice. The first bans were, against the advice of Team Security, overturned.



Ding-ding-ding....

Everybody seems to have forgotten the first round of bans.

GBS Querns remembers.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#234 - 2016-10-12 20:14:27 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing

I'm talking about the EULA changes.
Ruddger
Vande-lay Industries
#235 - 2016-10-12 20:15:45 UTC
This is an absolute travesty. Gambling as been a part of this game since it's launch..... Big lottery.... Eoh poker... these are trusted organizations that have operated for many years....


To drag EOHpoker into this..... CCP you have no honor.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#236 - 2016-10-12 20:18:55 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing

I'm talking about the EULA changes.


Which ones? The gambling part. Look, Valve just was told to knock off the gambling via their operations. Valve wasn't running the gambling sites, but the gambling sites were using Valve's API.

So, this change in the EULA is not surprising. Maybe IWI and others that were RMTing were not making as much money, but all it takes is one lawyer with some time on his hands.

Quote:
The WSGC [Washington State Gambling Commission] contacted Valve about the use of CSGO skins in online gambling back in February 2016, initially "to determine if any additional action was needed." As a result of its investigation, the Commission has ordered Valve to "take whatever actions are necessary" to keep third-party sites from using the Steam platform to engage in skin gambling activities.--source

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#237 - 2016-10-12 20:22:48 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:
Minerva Arbosa wrote:
Elliott Spitzer wrote:
Toobo wrote:
If Iron is flagged as RMT (I have no reason to accuse him as such, but since they are doing blanket punishment on all involved, just for the virtue of involvement, not actual evidence of involvement) - then will CCP remove his SP too? Which was bought using ISK he made from IWI, which is now all of sudden judged to be involved with RMT, including down to Bankers who just got hired a few weeks ago?

WTF is going on seriously.


What? They are doing this because there is a massive amount of evidence involved.


There is no evidence as they can just do what they want why they want to. If there was evidence, then CCP would release reports on big items such as this and explain in wording how they found the link between RMT and IWI. No report, no evidence. Goes back to just because they wanted to.



Why on earth would the CCP Security Team publish how they found them out?

Do you seriously expect them to tell everyone the secret, just so everyone can find a way around it?


Cause if they are so good, then you wouldn't get around it. Also considering supposedly how much ISK / $$ are lost, I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't send out a legal request on the matter. I mean like if you were accused of doing something you wouldn't have a form letter sent out to CCP in order to see the evidence levied against you considering how much real money you spent on servers, characters in the game, advertising and all of the metrics it takes for search engines? I mean if I were doing it I wouldn't bother sending a letter of inquiry. I would be sending a letter stating they are getting sued in the court of the state I live in even though they are a company from across the pond, as the laws governing my state allow me to do such a thing.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#238 - 2016-10-12 20:23:07 UTC
If CCP is making this move because of what recently happened in Washington state, the Grath Telkin has the wrong end of the stick. CCP did this because they do not want to get into a pissing match with State or even worse the Feds on your ass.

Maybe this will cause some bad unintended consequences whose magnitude nobody knows, but having the Feds getting involved is just bad.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Altalicious
Burning Space
#239 - 2016-10-12 20:23:59 UTC
Well, if these RMT guys are in the USA CCP could contact the IRS about their activity. Any RL money they made could be considered taxable income and subject to appropriate taxes.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#240 - 2016-10-12 20:25:03 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
A few years ago I got so hooked on Somer Blink that I had a net loss of something like 20 billion ISK by the time I finally stopped. I was also really sore about how IWI was able to fund WWB against my (at the time) alliance. And obviously I don't think RMT should be allowed.

I don't think these are adequate reasons to ban third-party ISK gambling sites. I really don't play this game as much as I used to and I haven't used any gambling sites since I quit Blink, but I still think this is a pointless move and it only pisses off players who enjoyed this sort of thing.



its not about that though it was they got caught RMTing

I'm talking about the EULA changes.


Which ones? The gambling part. Look, Valve just was told to knock off the gambling via their operations. Valve wasn't running the gambling sites, but the gambling sites were using Valve's API.

So, this change in the EULA is not surprising. Maybe IWI and others that were RMTing were not making as much money, but all it takes is one lawyer with some time on his hands.

Quote:
The WSGC [Washington State Gambling Commission] contacted Valve about the use of CSGO skins in online gambling back in February 2016, initially "to determine if any additional action was needed." As a result of its investigation, the Commission has ordered Valve to "take whatever actions are necessary" to keep third-party sites from using the Steam platform to engage in skin gambling activities.--source

I'm sure the Washington State Gambling Commission holds a lot of sway in Reykjavik.

Or do you think the concern is that unless CCP bans these sites, Valve will take EVE off Steam?