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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

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Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#101 - 2016-10-12 17:11:29 UTC
Toobo wrote:
It's about whether such blanket punishment is justifiable.

Sorry about bringing it up, but recently we have witnessed this type of punishment IRL and it was generally accepted to be OK. I'm not going into details here, the event was quite widely broadcasted in the media, so most of us probably know what I'm talking about, and if not - feel free to mail me and I'll give the explanation in private.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#102 - 2016-10-12 17:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
This does not go far enough, and the EULA could be simplified greatly.

In-game items should not be exchangeable for ANY out of game goods or services, period.


.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#103 - 2016-10-12 17:15:04 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c


I think your first interpretation is a bit wide
They specifically said 3rd party games of chance not all 3rd party services
Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#104 - 2016-10-12 17:15:22 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:



Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

so this doesn't mean our accoutns WILL be deleted after 90 days of not logging it. it just means that we'll be warned 90 days IF the supply of accounts becomes to many.

correct?


also with eve-bet being...outlawed........will we have some form of ingame betting (as its fun to bet on teams for the alliance tournament.)
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#105 - 2016-10-12 17:20:00 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
This does not go far enough, and the EULA could be simplified greatly.

In-game items should not be exchangeable for ANY out of games goods or services, period.



So you couldn't donate isk to the people who coded Evemon, EFT, PYFA, Dotlan etc?

No more PLEX for X charities?

Not all out-of-game goods and services are tied to RMT, not are they all the devil. And I would much rather throw the person coding Evemon an in game donation of day 1 bil isk so they can focus less on making money in eve and more time on enjoying the game given the work they have done.

Now you could argue that it is not an exchange. They give the item freely, I choose to donate. There is no official exchange. However, EULA are full of lawyer speak so perhaps their wording covers this best.
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#106 - 2016-10-12 17:20:01 UTC
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:



Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

so this doesn't mean our accoutns WILL be deleted after 90 days of not logging it. it just means that we'll be warned 90 days IF the supply of accounts becomes to many.

correct?


also with eve-bet being...outlawed........will we have some form of ingame betting (as its fun to bet on teams for the alliance tournament.)


Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.
Lasisha Mishi
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2016-10-12 17:21:18 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:



Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

so this doesn't mean our accoutns WILL be deleted after 90 days of not logging it. it just means that we'll be warned 90 days IF the supply of accounts becomes to many.

correct?


also with eve-bet being...outlawed........will we have some form of ingame betting (as its fun to bet on teams for the alliance tournament.)


Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.

ty for clarrification
scared me when i saw that. now i feel better =)
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#108 - 2016-10-12 17:22:25 UTC
This is not a sandbox.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#109 - 2016-10-12 17:27:00 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.



Your post hurts my eyes....
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2016-10-12 17:30:20 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c

... only games of chance ... everything you listed except the lottery is legit.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#111 - 2016-10-12 17:33:51 UTC
Chribba wrote:
I'm interpreting this as running external sites that deals with ISK/items etc is prohibited.

Is me securing supercap trades against the rules?

Is running a lottery for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

Is running an auction for a titan, using the "Sell Orders" forum against the rules?

/c


Securing supercap trades on a 3rd party site will be bannable most likely.

Running a lottery, which is a game of chance, is bannable.

An auction is not a game of chance since you know exactly how much you and everyone else is bidding. However, if it were a silent auction, then that would be a game of chance and possibly get you banned depending on how blurred the lines are for CCP.
Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#112 - 2016-10-12 17:35:28 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Chribba's onto something here. There are many 'services' people pay for with ISK, such as TS hosting and websites, etc. What's up with all those?


Those are not games of chance. You pay X ISK to receive a service. As long as the person with the service doesn't RMT it, then you are alright. However if he RMT's with the ISK you payed him you are screwed.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#113 - 2016-10-12 17:35:39 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.

These are really good questions.
I have the same questions regarding VM and another physical machine (PC).
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2016-10-12 17:35:56 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Erika Mizune wrote:
Obil Que wrote:
Toobo wrote:
snip


TL:DR

I gave billions of my money to a guy and he got banned
*tears*
Why CCP, why?




Did you read his post?

He's talking about the players and how Eve Bet got time to properly honor last minute withdraws until the change goes in full effect but honest players on IWI didn't get the same.

CCP also closed and seized Eve Casino - Which haven't even been open yet! - they haven't accepted ANY ISK yet since it was still in testing, but yet all the bankers there have had their isk seized as well?

There are things that don't make sense here - I understand it's a risk to hand over your isk to these sites in the first place to feed your addiction, but they did give Eve Bet the benefit of the doubt.


Thank you. What I wanted to say in more succinct manner.


From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.

Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.
Drago Shouna
Doomheim
#115 - 2016-10-12 17:37:20 UTC
Lady Arrien wrote:
What on earth are you doing?? I get that there are problems, but this change will kill all of the good things that are funded by those sites, like EVE NT.

Also, how completely self-serving is it that you waited to announce this until the week after they produced an AT show twice as good as the one produced by CCP? Really, did you delay the announcement just to get that last bit of betting funded community effort out before you killed them?



I'm hoping EVE_NT can survive this, I've been to every meeting in Nottingham..It's my away weekend twice a year to just, well, chill and enjoy being with other EVE players.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#116 - 2016-10-12 17:42:08 UTC
Obil Que wrote:
Lasisha Mishi wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:



Updates & Clarifications:

The 90 day clause:

Our policy on inactive accounts has not changed, we have simply shortened the notice period from six months to three months due to a potentially higher volume of account creation.

so this doesn't mean our accoutns WILL be deleted after 90 days of not logging it. it just means that we'll be warned 90 days IF the supply of accounts becomes to many.

correct?


also with eve-bet being...outlawed........will we have some form of ingame betting (as its fun to bet on teams for the alliance tournament.)


Right now: CCP has the right to terminate your account immediately if you don't pay
After: CCP will notify you 90 days before terminating you if you don't pay
Reality: CCP hasn't ever used this clause

Why people are up in arms about getting 90 days notice to something CCP currently has the right to do immediately is beyond me.


Actually, they did terminate accounts once. It was of trial only accounts and freed up a ton of single character names.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#117 - 2016-10-12 17:53:13 UTC
MrJc Brighteast
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2016-10-12 17:53:49 UTC  |  Edited by: MrJc Brighteast
baltec1 wrote:

From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.



Eve casino wasn't even online yet nor did they accept any isk so idk how they could rmt lol only reason I can think of is Iron bank joining them. Again BEFORE the site was even live
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2016-10-12 17:54:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

From what I can tell, IWI and casino were running a RMT operation while EVEbet were legit. So EVEbet gets time to get its **** in order before shutting down while the other two got nuked.

Coupled with this is the whole steam getting sued for in game gambling so CCP are pulling the plug before something stupid happens and some American lawyer goes after them.


Casino wasn't involved in RMT. They were banned for breaking a different rule. From the dev blog:

Quote:
The third party service EVE Casino has been shut down in game, and all ISK and assets have been confiscated after multiple and sustained breaches of our Developer License Agreement. Permanent account suspensions have been issued against those involved.


But they were still banned for doing something that was against the rules at the time they did it.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2016-10-12 17:57:56 UTC
Brusanan wrote:
How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?


Oh for good's sake, raffles and lotteries are both gambling. That is there is a probability of winning a prize much larger than the stake you put down. Based on this simple and plain definition it is gambling. Best advice, don't do it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online