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[November] Rorqual Changes

First post First post First post
Author
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#281 - 2016-10-09 20:46:37 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Anyone know if drone mining augmenter rigs will affect the new excavator drones?


They said they were working on the rigs too.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

TomyLobo
Negative Density
Unchained Alliance
#282 - 2016-10-09 21:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
Vald Tegor wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:

Or you know, how they alraedy are aligned to warp off now, and do so the moment they see someone in system that could threaten them, or see them within 5-10AU on Dscan.

Your reasoning is fallacious. Probe or ship triggers it? Then it doesn't matter if probes required or not.

Have you actually tried mining aligned in a hulk before? Your ore hold fills up twice as often as you are allowed to jetcan. You mine sitting next to a freight container. An interceptor can easily jump into the system and warp to the anomaly before the hulk can align, depending on where in the system it is currently spawned.

TomyLobo wrote:

The sense of entitlement that some people have knows no bounds. So because you are roaming, kills should automatically fall on your lap? How about actually working for kills like most people do? Those who take their time to ensure they have the right comp of ships, monitor and track their targets aren't fools.

Hi Tomy,

I'm a miner. Nice to meet you. I don't think my operation should be able to completely ignore hostiles in our space, unless they bring a massive fleet that we're going to form for and engage before it gets to me anyway. Miners are not entitled to free security. That is why you have better yield and rare resources in dangerous space - because the activity is interruptible by definition. It's also why the yield increase should mostly come from personal capacity of the ships involved (and therefore at risk) rather than someone fielding a booster.

I do not advocate that players should be able to earn resources in total peace but there should be precautions that can be taken to keep you relatively safe, so that both aggressor and defender can be alert and engaged in the process, otherwise, it will be a one-way street. Why should I even bother farming crosses/rocks when farming players is a lot easier and far and away more rewarding?

Eve players have varying levels of concentration, alertness and skill and it will be up to the aggressor to take advantage of that. It's this that makes the hunt enjoyeable not arbitrary limits imposed by the game to make one side very vulnerable. Exhumers and barges still get destroyed by the doves in nullsec despite local and intel networks so why do we still need arbitrary limits imposed to make content?
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#283 - 2016-10-09 23:02:10 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Anyone know if drone mining augmenter rigs will affect the new excavator drones?


They said they were working on the rigs too.


Thanks, missed it before.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#284 - 2016-10-09 23:52:12 UTC
This is going to be great. Panic modules, fleet boosts, up to 18.4k m3/minute. All great.
I'm hoping this will be the catalyst that gets my friend back into the game.
SpaceTigerCross
Nisus Corporation
VINDICTIVE
#285 - 2016-10-10 07:06:10 UTC
I would like a bigger fuel bay!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#286 - 2016-10-10 07:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Mole Guy wrote:
scenario:
we jump to a new system to ninja mine.
i have a rorqual, my friends are in a skiff.
before we jump, i put the skiff's in my SMB and they go in cloakies.
we get there, they try to switch ships...but that doesnt work. now, we have ships scattered about while they are in mining ships.

we get attacked, i PANIC, they are protected, but their cloakies (which are floating in space) get blown up.
its dumb to not be able to put any ship in the SMB IMO.

what do we do with the spare ship???

and trolls dont say "thats what you get for using the rorqual" or some bs like that.
or "its a designed feature/draw back"..


and 5 light years is beautiful.

Use the Prospect, a cloaky mining frigate?

I'm assuming the ship hangar accepts Expedition Frigates [Prospect & Endurance]? Mining Frigates [Venture] were allowed in Retribution 1.1
Mole Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#287 - 2016-10-10 10:29:15 UTC
SpaceTigerCross wrote:
I would like a bigger fuel bay!

rorqual has plen-T of gas to get around.
Mole Guy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#288 - 2016-10-10 10:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Mole Guy wrote:
scenario:
we jump to a new system to ninja mine.
i have a rorqual, my friends are in a skiff.
before we jump, i put the skiff's in my SMB and they go in cloakies.
we get there, they try to switch ships...but that doesnt work. now, we have ships scattered about while they are in mining ships.

we get attacked, i PANIC, they are protected, but their cloakies (which are floating in space) get blown up.
its dumb to not be able to put any ship in the SMB IMO.

what do we do with the spare ship???

and trolls dont say "thats what you get for using the rorqual" or some bs like that.
or "its a designed feature/draw back"..


and 5 light years is beautiful.

Use the Prospect, a cloaky mining frigate?

I'm assuming the ship hangar accepts Expedition Frigates [Prospect & Endurance]? Mining Frigates [Venture] were allowed in Retribution 1.1


that is one work around. should work fine. i forget about those lil things from time to time.
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#289 - 2016-10-11 00:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
-dubs-
Arronicus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#290 - 2016-10-11 00:42:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arronicus
SpaceTigerCross wrote:
I would like a bigger fuel bay!


Between the existing fuel bay, cargo hold, and fleet hangar, I don't think I've ever thought to myself, 'boy, I sure could use a bigger fuel bay' on a rorqual. Either you're boosting locally, and you're full of all the heavy water you need for a while plus emergency isotopes, or you're crammed full of ridiculous amounts of isotopes for long trips.

Marcus Tedric wrote:


The Rorqual is NOT supposed to be a mining ship and replace a proper Barge!



Why not? You're placing arbitrary restrictions based on nothing more than your feelings. The rorqual was intended when created to lead mining opeartions, not cower in a pos as an afk gamepiece all day long. It absolutely should be a mining ship that can replace a barge, though ideally not at the cost of forcing every barge pilots gamestyle to be stomped down into mediocrity. At this point, I'm really optimistic, especially with the increased synergy between rorquals and mining barges.
ShadowFirestar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2016-10-11 09:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: ShadowFirestar
One feature id like to see that make life easier for fleet miners is the ability to allow other mining ships to compress their ore in their own ore hold when they are in range of the rorq. When the rorq is sieged of course.
Smuff Gallente
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#292 - 2016-10-11 12:12:02 UTC
when will the changes be on sisi
Cade Windstalker
#293 - 2016-10-11 22:44:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie, quick question that I don't see answered anywhere, what's the cost per drone looking like for the Excavator Mining Drones?

I'm seeing a lot of speculation but no hard facts.

Thanks!
Jalxan
EVE University
Ivy League
#294 - 2016-10-12 16:13:18 UTC
This is something I discovered through another feedback thread, which regards the Rorqual and docking in Astrahus stations. I will be posting this in both threads, as both are mutually exclusive, and should be read.

I strongly recommend, that the Rorqual be allowed to dock in the Astrahus. In addition, Rorquals, as they are not combat vessels, should be permitted to mine in High Sec space. Because the Rorqual is going through a rework, it is a perfect time to size the Rorqual to the approximate dimension of a Freighter, and since Freighters count as capital ships, and since they can dock in the Astrahus station, the Rorqual should as well. This is especially important, as Astrahus stations are known to be mining/refining stations, and it would severely hamper the Rorqual if it can't dock in a station that is designed to cater to it!

Thus, I'd like to see the Rorqual to be Freighter-sized, and capable of docking in the Astrahus, and undocking via its largest docking ports. Beyond that, I believe the new Rorqual is perfect.
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#295 - 2016-10-12 16:53:47 UTC
Jalxan wrote:
This is something I discovered through another feedback thread, which regards the Rorqual and docking in Astrahus stations. I will be posting this in both threads, as both are mutually exclusive, and should be read.

I strongly recommend, that the Rorqual be allowed to dock in the Astrahus. In addition, Rorquals, as they are not combat vessels, should be permitted to mine in High Sec space. Because the Rorqual is going through a rework, it is a perfect time to size the Rorqual to the approximate dimension of a Freighter, and since Freighters count as capital ships, and since they can dock in the Astrahus station, the Rorqual should as well. This is especially important, as Astrahus stations are known to be mining/refining stations, and it would severely hamper the Rorqual if it can't dock in a station that is designed to cater to it!

Thus, I'd like to see the Rorqual to be Freighter-sized, and capable of docking in the Astrahus, and undocking via its largest docking ports. Beyond that, I believe the new Rorqual is perfect.

Hell no to hisec rorquals. Good luck ganking it ever with its EHP and reps.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Knight Jay
Doomheim
#296 - 2016-10-12 20:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Knight Jay
THIS IS WAY OP.

7min invulnerably.
2000 dps
it has 10 au jump range
triage
HUGE drone bay becasue of the capital mining drone size so can fit soooo many drone waves.
it can keep lock and mine in panic mode.

Meaning it can keep lock and entosis in panic mode.

so basically this thing is a carrier with dps of a super and a EHE of 7min


OOOO and it can mine at the rate of 10 hulks.
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#297 - 2016-10-12 20:41:27 UTC
Jalxan wrote:
This is something I discovered through another feedback thread, which regards the Rorqual and docking in Astrahus stations. I will be posting this in both threads, as both are mutually exclusive, and should be read.

I strongly recommend, that the Rorqual be allowed to dock in the Astrahus. In addition, Rorquals, as they are not combat vessels, should be permitted to mine in High Sec space. Because the Rorqual is going through a rework, it is a perfect time to size the Rorqual to the approximate dimension of a Freighter, and since Freighters count as capital ships, and since they can dock in the Astrahus station, the Rorqual should as well. This is especially important, as Astrahus stations are known to be mining/refining stations, and it would severely hamper the Rorqual if it can't dock in a station that is designed to cater to it!

Thus, I'd like to see the Rorqual to be Freighter-sized, and capable of docking in the Astrahus, and undocking via its largest docking ports. Beyond that, I believe the new Rorqual is perfect.


As much as I like this idea, something needs to be given up if a Rorqual can be in High Sec. Maybe the Industrial Cores and PANIC cannot be activated in High Sec?
Cade Windstalker
#298 - 2016-10-12 23:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Jalxan wrote:
This is something I discovered through another feedback thread, which regards the Rorqual and docking in Astrahus stations. I will be posting this in both threads, as both are mutually exclusive, and should be read.

I strongly recommend, that the Rorqual be allowed to dock in the Astrahus. In addition, Rorquals, as they are not combat vessels, should be permitted to mine in High Sec space. Because the Rorqual is going through a rework, it is a perfect time to size the Rorqual to the approximate dimension of a Freighter, and since Freighters count as capital ships, and since they can dock in the Astrahus station, the Rorqual should as well. This is especially important, as Astrahus stations are known to be mining/refining stations, and it would severely hamper the Rorqual if it can't dock in a station that is designed to cater to it!

Thus, I'd like to see the Rorqual to be Freighter-sized, and capable of docking in the Astrahus, and undocking via its largest docking ports. Beyond that, I believe the new Rorqual is perfect.


Hi Jalxan! Nice running into you again!

Gotta disagree with you here though. The Rorqual is a Capital Ship in all the ways that matter while Freighters are the Orca are not.

The Rorqual:


  • Requires the Capital Ships skill to fly
  • Has Capital Ship EHP.
  • Fits Capital Class modules including Capital RR.


Freighters, in comparison, do none of these things and are basically capitals in name only. CCP could move them off to their own hull class as "Freighters" and no one would notice.

The Rorqual also mines enough with these changes to strip a High Sec belt bare in a few hours and there's basically no way to gank it or otherwise stop it, and because of how mining profits work you can keep it in a newbie corp and war-dec proof permanently.

It would also make moving and owning these ships significantly less risky, since you just need to jump one onto a gate to High Sec and it can safely traverse to the other side of High Sec at that point.

IMO this is just too many negatives or things that would need to change to make letting the Rorqual enter High Sec a good idea. Letting it dock in Medium structures is a somewhat separate issue but one that will be largely solved when/if CCP fixes bumping of Tethered ships and allows Citadel storage to be accessed from space, since at that point you have a rough parity of functionality between the Tether and the POS Shield.
Knight Jay
Doomheim
#299 - 2016-10-13 00:29:20 UTC
how are you people talking about letting this thing in high sec when as it stands its going to destroy null sec.
ITS INSANELY OVER POWERED.

It can do 2k dps..................... IT OUT DAMAGES carriers!!!! with a bonus to drone hp
Can jump 10ly
it can do the job of a fax.
It has a EHE that lasts for 7MIN!!!!!

How many more times does this need to be pointed out. It is literally going to make bringing anything else pointless.
why bring carriers when this can do 2k dps from drones.
why bring dreads when this can do 2k dps from drones.
why bring fax when this can triage your fleet.
Hey got to entosis? use roqs!!!! jump em in! **** goes down jump them to each other and PANIC. or wait just use their combined dps to wipe out everything.

did i mention lowsec incursions with these?
this just can not be allowed to see tq with the proposed stats etc it will ruin the game.
PL will be fielding fleets of these beasts.

possibly the most unbalanced ship suggestion EVER!!!


Cade Windstalker
#300 - 2016-10-13 01:33:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Knight Jay wrote:

why bring carriers when this can do 2k dps from drones.


Because it needs to siege like a Dread to do that, they're still just drones which means a Carrier's Fighters will eat them alive, and if you're going to have to siege anyway you may as well just bring a Dread. Same or better range, no killable drones, cheaper hull, and comparable or better local tank.

Knight Jay wrote:
why bring dreads when this can do 2k dps from drones.


Because a Dread can do 4k to sub-caps or ~10-12k to caps, and it's cheaper.

Knight Jay wrote:

why bring fax when this can triage your fleet.


Because some quick eyeball math says the FAX is cheaper, reps better, is easier to fit, and tanks better than a Rorqual will even with these changes. The only advantage the Rorqual actually has that I can see is rep range and rep cap use. The rep range is questionably useful and the rep cap use is offset by the ~150-200k PG it's missing over a FAX.

Also a Rorqual can only support Shield fleets, so there's that.

Knight Jay wrote:

Hey got to entosis? use roqs!!!! jump em in! **** goes down jump them to each other and PANIC. or wait just use their combined dps to wipe out everything.


PANIC doesn't affect other Rorquals, and the Rorqual still has the 5x Entosis modifier.

You could, potentially, Entosis using a Barge that's been PANIC'd, since it would have the normal 5-minute cycle time, but it wouldn't have any sort of ECM immunity and would be pretty easily jammed out unless you used a lot of remote ECCM, and at that point you've just dropped probably 3bil in assets on one node that you *probably* could have taken more effectively.

That's the only potential abuse I see here, Entosis on other mining ships combined with PANIC, but that's a pretty expensive trick and it's questionable if it'll work...