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Dev Blog: EULA Changes Coming With EVE Online: Ascension

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Lady Aesir
Ghost Recon Inc
#41 - 2016-10-12 15:01:53 UTC
Finally CCP puts the game back into the hands of players and CCP where it belongs.
Please do not ruin it and change your decision when you sit down with the CSM
They are only looking out for their masters not the normal playerbase.
Keretech
Lunar Labs
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#42 - 2016-10-12 15:02:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Keretech
I agree with all this to get rid of these real money-isk laundering schemes....

BUT!

I am in game from 2004, now under this - if I want to take a break for let's say 6 months because of RL and come back - well - ShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedShockedcannot come back because account deleted? All that work and and subscription for years gone ???? Really?


Please clarify that - really.
Mester Dominux
Circle-0f-Two
Circle-Of-Two
#43 - 2016-10-12 15:03:07 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Cristl wrote:
I assume the 'we may purge accounts after 90 days of inactivity' clause is unlikely to ever be enacted, right?


This has been clarified in the OP Smile


What about the question about lotteries?
Janeos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-10-12 15:03:51 UTC
Momiji Sakora wrote:
Dex Cordell wrote:
so if I read this correctly, me playing Hold'em with and for ISK is going to be shut down as well? I'm somehow failing to catch the drift here. Why would RMT require this kind of harsh measures against everyone in general, instead of applying the rules already in place to those caught breaking them, as it was till now? That's just gross...


I think the major bit of this is that it's cost CCP a ton of money and manhours to investigate RMT in the cases named, and others. Time and again isk gambling sites seem to slip into RMT along the way - and CCP have had to investigate. Not to mention accusations true or false on these sites having to be investigated. So why not save time and just cut them out entirely.

Beyond that, it's a form of income that is completely immune to in-game interdiction of any kind. They have no stations to destroy, no logistics to disrupt, no ratters to gank. They were more untouchable by capsuleers than teh HK Fortizar.
Janeos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2016-10-12 15:05:50 UTC
Lady Aesir wrote:
Finally CCP puts the game back into the hands of players and CCP where it belongs.
Please do not ruin it and change your decision when you sit down with the CSM
They are only looking out for their masters not the normal playerbase.

There is no way the Goon CSM members will lobby for the return of sketchy space casinos. Put your trust in us, fair pubbies.
Katrina Bekers
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2016-10-12 15:08:03 UTC
There are many questions to answer, but overall, a good step in the right direction. Bold move, and I'd fully expect an harsh backlash, tho.

<< THE RABBLE BRIGADE >>
iam Evingod
Doomheim
#47 - 2016-10-12 15:11:10 UTC
So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.
Jew Jew Binks
Doomheim
#48 - 2016-10-12 15:11:32 UTC
"CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) ... your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days"

this should only apply to accounts that had under 90 days of subscription. it would be awufull to delete characters with 15M SP or more.
Dierdra Vaal
Interstellar Stargate Syndicate
#49 - 2016-10-12 15:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dierdra Vaal
Quote:
Ascension, players will be prohibited from using in game assets and currency, as well as the EVE IP, to take part in or promote gambling services or other games of chance that are operated by third parties.


To what extent are lotteries and such allowed in Eve?

I host Evesterdam, are we allowed to give away ISK prizes? Are corporations or alliances allowed to host lotteries, either interal facing or external? What about microlotteries?

I feel like "3rd party gambling services" is an unreasonably broad category, and is currently very badly defined.

Veto #205

Director Emeritus at EVE University

CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman

Evesterdam organiser and CSM Vote Match founder

Co-Author of the Galactic Party Planning Guide
Alan Mathison
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#50 - 2016-10-12 15:19:16 UTC
iam Evingod wrote:
So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.


This needs no clarification. It's simple. You may have 10+ Omega accounts online at the same time, but only ONE Alpha account. This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.

-- Alan Mathison, Explorer & Industrialist, Star Tide Industries
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2016-10-12 15:19:20 UTC
Andre Vauban wrote:
Can you elaborate on
"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for the Software"?

How does this relate to alpha and omega's? It is pretty clear that CCP will write some code to prevent another Eve client from being launched whenver an alpha account is running. How does this relate to VMs and containers?

If I run the second Eve account in a container or VM to circumvent the restriction, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC with a different public IP than the first account, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a pet, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a sleeping baby, is that a EULA violation?

If so, what if I run the second Eve account on another PC and place it in front of a spouse who really isn't playing EVE, is that a EULA violation?


I don't mean to be annoying, but people are going to push this ability to multibox alpha's as far as they can just like they did with multi-input.


You're NOT allowed to run multiple free clients, no matter how you would go about doing it.. Period. Stop trying to find loopholes.

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Brusanan
Free State Project
#52 - 2016-10-12 15:26:34 UTC
How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?
iam Evingod
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-10-12 15:29:48 UTC
Alan Mathison wrote:
iam Evingod wrote:
So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.


This needs no clarification. It's simple. You may have 10+ Omega accounts online at the same time, but only ONE Alpha account. This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.


It does need clarification. It specifically states you must pay for each account over the number one. That is the legal definition of what was posted.

Legally, in the United States, where I am based, that means that I must "pay a subscription fee" for each account that I wish to play on if I want to use them "at the same time". There is a very large difference in a "subscription fee" and using an in game item to keep an account in it's "Omega" state.

This needs clarification.
Brusanan
Free State Project
#54 - 2016-10-12 15:32:21 UTC
Jew Jew Binks wrote:
"CCP may terminate the EULA, close all your Accounts, and cancel all rights granted to you under the EULA if: (i) ... your account has been inactive for a number of 90 days"

this should only apply to accounts that had under 90 days of subscription. it would be awufull to delete characters with 15M SP or more.

Yeah, I am a bit concerned about this as well. I have 2 125m SP toons, and if CCP deleted my accounts while I was taking a break (which is inevitable for any game after 9 years of playing), I would be really upset.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#55 - 2016-10-12 15:34:17 UTC
iam Evingod wrote:
Alan Mathison wrote:
iam Evingod wrote:
So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.


This needs no clarification. It's simple. You may have 10+ Omega accounts online at the same time, but only ONE Alpha account. This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.


It does need clarification. It specifically states you must pay for each account over the number one. That is the legal definition of what was posted.

Legally, in the United States, where I am based, that means that I must "pay a subscription fee" for each account that I wish to play on if I want to use them "at the same time". There is a very large difference in a "subscription fee" and using an in game item to keep an account in it's "Omega" state.

This needs clarification.



Not this again. There was a long thread about this in general discussion. PLEX'd accounts are 'subscribed' accounts.
For purposes of the EULA, there is no difference between paying money for a sub and using PLEX for a sub.

It's a settled issue and pretty straight forward.
Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#56 - 2016-10-12 15:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Dex Cordell
Brusanan wrote:
How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?



I presume the whole hassle about gambling being officially prohibited from now on (RMT and protecting minors, meh, as if the laws established to do that and to ensure that we raise our children properly did a great job ensuring it in the first place, but that's just offhand off topic and for a different discussion entirely) does not affect free giveaways of items as rewards for a given action, e.g. the rewards for people supporting streamers are not exactly a gamble or "game of chance". Same goes for ingame lotteries for items run by corporations, you're paying ISK for tickets to win ships, not actual real world cash. If you use PLEX to sell for ISK and participate, that's allowed, the RMT goes to CCP itself...:)
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2016-10-12 15:40:48 UTC
Dex Cordell wrote:
Brusanan wrote:
How will these new EULA changes affect Twitch streamers who occasionally raffle prizes off to their stream viewers?



I presume the whole hassle about gambling being officially prohibited from now on (RMT and protecting minors, meh, as if the laws established to do that and to ensure that we raise our children properly did a great job ensuring it in the first place, but that's just offhand off topic and for a different discussion entirely) does not affect free giveaways of items as rewards for a given action, e.g. the rewards for people supporting streamers are not exactly a gamble or "game of chance". Same goes for ingame lotteries for items run by corporations, you're paying ISK for tickets to win ships, not actual real world cash. If you use PLEX to sell for ISK and participate, that's allowed, the RMT goes to CCP itself...:)


Spreading a lot of misinformation here. In-game lotteries are no different that third party casinos. Lottery = game of chance. None of this was ever about players paying real money to play in those casinos. It's about the casino's selling the ISK people wager for real money.

Either way, ALL games of chance are banned. Until CCP says otherwise, that includes lotteries no matter how small.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
iam Evingod
Doomheim
#58 - 2016-10-12 15:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: iam Evingod
Jenn aSide wrote:
iam Evingod wrote:
Alan Mathison wrote:
iam Evingod wrote:
So do the changes made to the "Your Account" section no longer allow multiboxing if you are paying for them with PLEX?

"You may establish more than one (1) Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one account, at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

THIS needs clarification. Legally speaking, this means no more 10+ accounts. If that is the case me and my alts are done.


This needs no clarification. It's simple. You may have 10+ Omega accounts online at the same time, but only ONE Alpha account. This prevents the horde of Alpha gankers we're all worried about.


It does need clarification. It specifically states you must pay for each account over the number one. That is the legal definition of what was posted.

Legally, in the United States, where I am based, that means that I must "pay a subscription fee" for each account that I wish to play on if I want to use them "at the same time". There is a very large difference in a "subscription fee" and using an in game item to keep an account in it's "Omega" state.

This needs clarification.



Not this again. There was a long thread about this in general discussion. PLEX'd accounts are 'subscribed' accounts.
For purposes of the EULA, there is no difference between paying money for a sub and using PLEX for a sub.

It's a settled issue and pretty straight forward.


No, it doesn't. A forum post in a general discussion thread does not have any sort of button that states "I Agree to these terms". They are changing the terms, then we ALL will have to agree. When it comes down to it, I have to accept the EULA. IF it is not clear enough, and I knowingly (yes, I have a legal background) breach the EULA under these new terms, I can face punishment of some sort. The legal writing of the EULA is what is in question, not what people discussed on the forums.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#59 - 2016-10-12 15:43:55 UTC
Never a dull moment

@lunettelulu7
ArmyOfMe
African Atomic.
#60 - 2016-10-12 15:45:02 UTC
Sad changes if im honest.
This game needs this sort of small but fun things, as the game itself is rather boring 90% of the time....

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.