Missions & Complexes

Emergent, open-world sandbox =/= scripted movie with pre-determined outcome. Go play SW:tOR or WoW if you want that.

And you're confusing immorality with amorality:

Intrinsically, there is nothing of the former in this game but what players make of it, because it's 100% the latter.

E: Snipped the appeal to emotion based on a premise that has no basis in what EVE is, or ever did.

First I wanted to rage so I walked away... that I cooled down and loled, and that I loled again.

I read the CSM notes with respect to Incursion sites.

The first thing that is interesting is that the notes are not complete spinless nerf-herding. I'll comment a little.

In the first paragraph, Vanguard sites are accused of being to easy. There is a lot to be said about Vanguard sites and their difficulty. However, it would be difficult to make them harder because lots of the toughness is in getting the 10 people together to do them. If it was as easy to find and lead 20 random people as it is to find and lead 10, the preference would be for Assaults.

The Second and Third paragraphs are about making sites vary more in order to make them more unpredictable and thus more risky. The CSM actually didn't want too much changes to alpha in sites, noting that bombers in Mothership sites can one-shot a logistics ship now.

The Forth paragraph is about the Nation's Consolidation Network which has a cruiser's gate and a battleship's gate. The CSM has told CCP that this is very unpopular because to do it some people have to reship into cruisers.

The Fifth paragraph is about bugs and exploits. I have not personally seen any bugs in my scant incursions running time, but there are a few things that might not be working as intended. Interestingly enough it's two out of three Vanguards.
In the Nation's Mining Colony, it is intended for the players to mine the ore and then use it to destroy the refinery. However what has been happening is that there is extra ore and some people have been saving it (Particularly people who run in the 'shiny fleets') So they finish the Sansha fleet, then use their stored ore to actually destroy the facility.
In the Override Transfer Array, it is intended that someone hack the Override Transfer Arrays in order to defeat the Sansha Logistics and thus finish the site. However, what people have been doing is simply shooting the Deltotes, which even with the Transfer Array support are still fragile enough to defeat. Very shiny fleets can shoot DDD, but unshiny fleets have to shoot AAD AAD D or some similar variation.

The Sixth paragraph is about Site Competition and the number of sites. CCP wanted more sites and the CSM did not.

The Seventh paragraph is about timing, the CSM believes that incursions end too soon, specifically the mothership appears to soon in high-sec. I wonder if opinions are still this?

The Eighth paragraph is about why Incursions always seem to happen in Amarrian space. CCP says they happen there because if you pick a high-sec constellation at random, the probability is greatest that it is an Amarrian constellation.

The benefits of Incursions as a social activity was praised in the closing paragraphs. The CSM said that improvements to Eve Voice, Tagging of enemies on the overview, and Fleet Command tools (especially with respect to knowing how many people are in your fleet) Would be Incursion boosts.

If you made it this far. We're probably going to see Incursion sites changed to make the ships within them more probabilistic. Vanguard and also the Nation's Consolidation Network could see significant changes to their mechanics.

I can't see the hypocrisy at all I'm afraid. The reality is they became CSMs by being popular players. They didn't become popular players by becoming CSMs, and being a CSM is not about abandoning being a player, or refraining from doing something perfectly normal like pve content. The forums are a perfectly fine place to recruit a 40 man fleet or two, to take down the biggest baddest pve content in the game.



The war against barges was initiated by Helicity Boson, who is not the Mittani. Goons ran their own unrelated campaign against ice mining in gallente space.

goons get an incursion in their space every week and the bar is almost full!. whether they kill the mom or not doesnt matter cuz they are getting even more isk/hour then the rest of us and they have an incursion every week...

You, dear sir, seem to understand EVE.

(Unlike so many others in this bad thread)

If someone punches me in the face.. I punch them back.

Tears help fuel some of the 'events' in highsec, influenced by nullsec. Which is true.. it does help motivate and boost the troops. At the base level tho.. these events have other meanings and agendas. Usually boiling down to a nullsec alliance's balance sheet via one way or another.

Just like it is Economics to you.. it is to them. Whether they admit so or not. They likely won't, and they shouldn't for a variety of reasons.

And nullsec players get it. You highsec players don't. You think you should live in some invuln bubble overheated by your tears to 100% resists.. delicate flowers that shall not be stomped upon because you 'pay to play this game like everyone else' and you believe that cause you wish to be highsec mains, your somehow different. And that's the thing.. you're not different. A nullsec main and a highsec main, wh, low.. whatever. You're all PLAYERS of EVE. I believe those outside of highsec get this..

And they use it to their advantage, and rightfully so. This is EVE. You signed up for it, just as they did. You all play the same game.. and they 'exploit' you time and again because of how naive and easy it is to use you for their personal gains. It is by no means illegal exploit in the sense of breaking rules and mechanics (most of the time).. in the grand, public events that happen to which I speak of, they are legitament.

Stop crying and actually play the game. If there are thousands of you negatively effected by this, quit being lil bitches so easily slapped around by your nullsec pimps. Do something and hit them back one way or another. You'd be surprised what several hundred people with a common goal can accomplish if you stop being lazy whiney lil bitches. Nullsec players are doing something about their ingame problems, INGAME. Do the same.

Quit making excuses.. there are no excuses when there is no effort to fix the problem yourself.. NONE. IMO the more demented people are the ones that ***** fit outside of the game, than those that simply do immoral acts in a fantasy game and leave it there. Keep it in the game, do something in the game.

A lot of you simply make it harder on yourself.. and you will never get this Game.

If someone punches you in the face.. punch them back.

Whilst I can't help but agree with some of this, I also can't help but despise people who feel they can force their views on others by such means. If you have a valid point to make (and you may well have, to a degree) then stick to the forums and CSM etc, and leave other people alone to play the game.

My own feeling is that High-Sec has long needed something like incursions, and whilst they may need a little tweaking, I see no good reason that the self-important 0.0 corps/alliances out there who believe they are the most important thing in the Eve universe, should have any right to dictate how it plays, to others.

There is this little detail: this is an unconsensual PvP game whose very intro shows people ruthlessly ascending to positions of power.

Exactly like those despisable individuals attack your golden eggs chicken, you can attack in turn and defend your interests.

After all, being owners of multi-billion ships shows you do have the money to fight back.

No you don't in my opinion. These people are not brick squad and will likely never vote for you and you want those that are alts of your corps to be forced back into CTAs. Stop trying to hide this. You've lost power and you want it back.



There was already a discussion in general about this. Explaining why only small changes are needed to vanguards without touching the payouts. Not like you care in my opinion.



Bolded part is the Only thing that is even halfway true in this paragraph in my opinion.



Please don't even try to hide it now. You are at risk of being voted out of the CSM you are losing members to incursions. You pulled a stunt in my opinion. Try to claim it was "for teh good of teh game" all you want but few are buying it.



You sir know absolutely nothing meaningful about incursions in my opinion and do not not need to be given a chance to represent them as a member of the CSM in my opinion.

Tho thanks for pulling this crap. Now BTL and others can galvanize those that actually care that Incursions help non alliance players have a chance to group and have fun in the game of EVE galvanize them and get them to the polls to defeat you in the next election.

(Forum only allows 5 quotes so I am quoting Darius III) People have literally come out of the woodwork to help out. Special thanks to Cigarellos for donating 10 Typhoons for the fleet and T2 fittings for same including trimarks. Woot! Double thanks to Kill it With Fire and Skunkworks for making it happen and again to Krissada for being the glue and inspiration and main promulgator. Good times were had by all..well all of us anyway. Look for video/audio tomorrow D3 ENDQUOTE

I am glad to see that many that hate incursions come out of the woodwork and burn their characters out of any chance of being in a decent fleet in my opinion. This will encourage incursion running fleets and BTL to develop better methods of keeping blacklisted members out of fleets. New software and hiring of PIs to also find out who the blacklisted characters are alts of and have them blacklisted as well. Trying to wreck an entire playstyle that doesn't involve defend an alliance moon goo supply should have serious in game consequences for said characters.

---

Of course all of this revolves around if BTL even cares anymore. People continued to spam their fits and act as if this doesn't matter at all. And to be honest. If it weren't for your actions in my opinion obviously being about focusing you and nullsec power. I would not give a damn as well because it is shiny fleets actually perishing from your fake rep fleets. And if they do not actually DO something after this madness and work to vote you out and make better defenses against this in the future. I will vote for you myself.