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Novermber Miner "Updates" and Miner bumping.

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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#41 - 2016-10-12 08:33:50 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:
They showed and presented that NEW players did not quit due to ganking.

Actually the point about account cancellation was not about new players at all, which would also not make a lot of sense, since the < 15 day players actually never subscribed and therefor can't cancel the account. Maybe watch that video again. So the point stands, < 1% state harassment as a reason for account cancellation so please provide some evidence if you think you know better.

Mark Marconi wrote:
Maybe you would like to show proof that the industrialists didn't leave in droves because they got sick of being ganked because I know a hell of a lot of people I used to mine with did.

YOU try to argue the complete opposite to an established fact, YOU have the burden of prove. Everyone can make any number of garbage statements and it is on them to show why we should take it seriously.

Mark Marconi wrote:
As to the bumper, if their sec status is below -5 everyone should be allowed to kill them, with or without bumping.
Again you show you absolute lack of knowledge about the game. Everyone is ALREADY allowed to kill a player with -5 sec status without CONCORD intervention, not even that, you even get faction police support after a few seconds.

So this is the second suggestion today from you which should fix the game but is actually already implemented. So tell me is the game now considered fixed for you?

Evil RatKid
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#42 - 2016-10-12 09:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Urziel99
Immawreckyou wrote:
Mark Marconi wrote:
As to the bumper, if their sec status is below -5 everyone should be allowed to kill them, with or without bumping.
Again you show you absolute lack of knowledge about the game. Everyone is ALREADY allowed to kill a player with -5 sec status without CONCORD intervention, not even that, you even get faction police support after a few seconds.

So this is the second suggestion today from you which should fix the game but is actually already implemented. So tell me is the game now considered fixed for you?



This. If someone below -5 is trying to bump you just point/scram them and the faction navy will be along shortly to murder zone them. Anti-gankers love pointing -10's jumping through a stargate so the navy can do their dirty work.
Goati
Doomheim
#43 - 2016-10-12 09:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
It will actually be very easy to bump an Orca out of boost range. A good bumper machariel can send an Orca 100km from the belt in under a minute. Good luck miners :))))

It is actually far more worth bumping Orcas now than before. You disrupt their boosts, you stop the Orca itself from being able to mine, and you stop the Orca from being able to haul for any miners they might have.

If boosts are your primary concern, the Orca is a poor choice.
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2016-10-12 09:41:48 UTC
Put the booster in the middle of an asteroid cluster.
It becomes more vulnerable to ganks, but the trade off is that a ship won't easily be able to bump the booster because the bumper keeps bumping off asteroids.
Goati
Doomheim
#45 - 2016-10-12 09:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Put the booster in the middle of an asteroid cluster.
It becomes more vulnerable to ganks, but the trade off is that a ship won't easily be able to bump the booster because the bumper keeps bumping off asteroids.


That's total rubbish, that never works and never has.

You're going to have to face up to the fact that this new super orca has a single weakness, bumping. If a good bumper goes for your orca, it will be rendered useless. You will have a few choices. Gank the bumper, and hope that he doesn't just replace his ship and return. You could move elsewhere. Or you could just not use an Orca.
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2016-10-12 09:53:06 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Mark Marconi wrote:
They showed and presented that NEW players did not quit due to ganking.

Actually the point about account cancellation was not about new players at all, which would also not make a lot of sense, since the < 15 day players actually never subscribed and therefor can't cancel the account. Maybe watch that video again. So the point stands, < 1% state harassment as a reason for account cancellation so please provide some evidence if you think you know better.

They specifically state new players. I suggest you watch it again.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:

YOU try to argue the complete opposite to an established fact, YOU have the burden of prove. Everyone can make any number of garbage statements and it is on them to show why we should take it seriously.

No your misrepresenting what CCP stated to use it as proof. It is not.
Hell even Minerbumping.com got it right.

"As CCP Rise explained, a massive study was performed on the subject of whether new players get ganked, and what effect it has on player retention. No longer would the lies of the carebears be taken at face value. Facts and evidence would decide the issue."

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#47 - 2016-10-12 10:16:02 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:

No your misrepresenting what CCP stated to use it as proof. It is not.
Hell even Minerbumping.com got it right.

"As CCP Rise explained, a massive study was performed on the subject of whether new players get ganked, and what effect it has on player retention. No longer would the lies of the carebears be taken at face value. Facts and evidence would decide the issue."

I don't want to overplay the 1% figure. It's been talked to death, however while the rest of the discussion in that part of the 'Using Science to Help Newbros' talk at Fanfest 2015 was about the new player study, the 1% was about account cancellations for Eve.

It wasn't about only the new player study.

The exact quote from CCP Rise is:

'And on top of the that, we actually, I can give one more fun fact.

If you look at account cancellations for Eve, less than 1% of account cancellations cite ship loss or player harassment as the reason for leaving'

https://puu.sh/rGjZ7/2d99cc91b5.png

https://youtu.be/A92Ge2S8M1Y?t=260

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2016-10-12 10:25:22 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:

They specifically state new players. I suggest you watch it again.


The specifically say people who get ganked play for longer and based that 1%< on all responses from people who left not trial players.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:


No your misrepresenting what CCP stated to use it as proof. It is not.
Hell even Minerbumping.com got it right.

"As CCP Rise explained, a massive study was performed on the subject of whether new players get ganked, and what effect it has on player retention. No longer would the lies of the carebears be taken at face value. Facts and evidence would decide the issue."


You are ignoring the part where CCP said the 1% comment was based on feedback from all people who quit.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#49 - 2016-10-12 10:44:38 UTC
Goati wrote:
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Put the booster in the middle of an asteroid cluster.
It becomes more vulnerable to ganks, but the trade off is that a ship won't easily be able to bump the booster because the bumper keeps bumping off asteroids.


That's total rubbish, that never works and never has.
Actually it does; roid hugging is a fairly effective defence against bumping.

Quote:
You're going to have to face up to the fact that this new super orca has a single weakness, bumping. If a good bumper goes for your orca, it will be rendered useless. You will have a few choices. Gank the bumper, and hope that he doesn't just replace his ship and return. You could move elsewhere. Or you could just not use an Orca.
Every ship in Eve has weaknesses*, it's called balance.

*Except the Svipul, that thing is just OP as hell.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2016-10-12 10:49:23 UTC
Winter Archipelago wrote:
A single bumper won't be able to do much to a booster if said booster is being intelligent. Also, if the booster doesn't have level 1 skills. Fit a Higgs rig, drop an MTU in the center of a belt, and orbit it at a few km.

The Orca, with zero Leadership skills, will have a 22.5km link, which is enough to reach all but the most extreme edges of any highsec static belt. The miners don't need to be humping the rocks at the outer edges at 0 to mine them, so they should be well within this very minimum range.

Add in level V Leadership skills (+6% range per level, or +30% at level IV) and that 22.5km range is now 29.25km.

Add in level V Wing Command (+5% range per level, or +25% at level IV) and that 29.25km range is now 36.56km.

Add in level IV Fleet Command (+4% range per level, or +16% at level IV) and that 36.56km range is now 42.4km.

Most highsec static belts are roughly 50km across, and your boost range with those skills is 86km across.

If you've gotten bumped far enough in an Orca in a highsec static belt that your miners are out of range of their boosts, you've managed to do something very, very wrong.


But but...panic, rage! Your heathen logic has no place here!

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#51 - 2016-10-12 10:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
Mark Marconi wrote:

No your misrepresenting what CCP stated to use it as proof. It is not.
Hell even Minerbumping.com got it right.

"As CCP Rise explained, a massive study was performed on the subject of whether new players get ganked, and what effect it has on player retention. No longer would the lies of the carebears be taken at face value. Facts and evidence would decide the issue."

https://youtu.be/A92Ge2S8M1Y?t=246

Seriously watch it again, here is what he says:

CCP Rise wrote:

People who die, so people in the ganked group are the most likely to stay subscribed afterwards. People in the legally killed group are slightly less likely to stay subscribed and the people who don't die at all where the ones most likely to leave the game.

And on top of that we actually I can give one more fun fact: if you look at account cancellations for EVE, less than one percent of account cancelations cite ship loss or player harassment for leaving.


You can only cancel an account once you have subscribed. The second part is not about new players but about account cancellations for EVE. So yes the <1% is actually about all EVE players and not about new players which never subscribe in the first place. Pretty obvious actually.

So you are stating the opposite, you better show some evidence for it.

Evil RatKid
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#52 - 2016-10-12 10:54:28 UTC
1% of those who responded.... what is the % of respondents to those who quit? My only question to ascertain the validity of the sample size for the study.Twisted

If % of respondents is low it means nothing, if % is high it means much MUCH more. Statistics are fun.Big smile

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#53 - 2016-10-12 10:58:55 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
1% of those who responded.... what is the % of respondents to those who quit? My only question to ascertain the validity of the sample size for the study.Twisted

If % of respondents is low it means nothing, if % is high it means much MUCH more. Statistics are fun.Big smile

The most vocal group on this forums are entitled carebears who cry about people exploding their spaceships. Why should they come here and cry but not voice their opinion when they quit?

Evil RatKid
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#54 - 2016-10-12 11:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
1% of those who responded.... what is the % of respondents to those who quit? My only question to ascertain the validity of the sample size for the study.Twisted

If % of respondents is low it means nothing, if % is high it means much MUCH more. Statistics are fun.Big smile

It's actually 100% of subscribed players that respond. It's a mandatory part of cancelling the subscription.

See this screen:

https://puu.sh/rGltG/38478db686.png

So you can't actually cancel without including a reason.

If you try, the form validation returns an error message:

https://puu.sh/rGlzs/b2593c5582.png

But don't get hung up on the 1%. It's not really the issue of the thread.
Goati
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-10-12 11:04:13 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Goati wrote:
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Put the booster in the middle of an asteroid cluster.
It becomes more vulnerable to ganks, but the trade off is that a ship won't easily be able to bump the booster because the bumper keeps bumping off asteroids.


That's total rubbish, that never works and never has.
Actually it does; roid hugging is a fairly effective defence against bumping.

Quote:
You're going to have to face up to the fact that this new super orca has a single weakness, bumping. If a good bumper goes for your orca, it will be rendered useless. You will have a few choices. Gank the bumper, and hope that he doesn't just replace his ship and return. You could move elsewhere. Or you could just not use an Orca.
Every ship in Eve has weaknesses*, it's called balance.

*Except the Svipul, that thing is just OP as hell.


It has limited effectiveness for small, faster ships such as skiffs, but even then isn't all that great. With larger very slow ships like Orcas it is highly easy to bump a roid hugger.
Commander Spurty
#56 - 2016-10-12 11:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
Come to null sec with all that stuff. We need you more. Anyone trying that trick out here will be executed.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-10-12 11:08:44 UTC
Mark Marconi wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
The only thing that has ever happened for being an outlaw is as included in the text, the local navy shoots you in the face.

In that respect, you aren't allowed in the system, but it's never been a gates closed type of lockout, just a 'don't linger here' type of lockout.

The gates also used to lock on you if you attacked someone near them.



They still do. And not just if you attack someone near them, but if you have attacked anyone, legal or otherwise, for the last 60 seconds anywhere in the system.

Also stations lock you out and prevent you from docking.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2016-10-12 11:12:57 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:


So this is the second suggestion today from you which should fix the game but is actually already implemented. So tell me is the game now considered fixed for you?


Honestly, I can't tell who's side of this argument he's on. It's like he's trying to present arguments to be shot down so other people won't use them.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-10-12 11:21:00 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Statistics are fun.Big smile


Mark Twain wrote:

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2016-10-12 11:22:06 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
1% of those who responded.... what is the % of respondents to those who quit? My only question to ascertain the validity of the sample size for the study.Twisted

If % of respondents is low it means nothing, if % is high it means much MUCH more. Statistics are fun.Big smile

It's actually 100% of subscribed players that respond. It's a mandatory part of cancelling the subscription.

See this screen:

https://puu.sh/rGltG/38478db686.png

So you can't actually cancel without including a reason.

If you try, the form validation returns an error message:

https://puu.sh/rGlzs/b2593c5582.png

But don't get hung up on the 1%. It's not really the issue of the thread.


Every time I unsub for a while, the reason I give is Sleepers hurt my self esteem.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno