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My hands hurt and my eyes are bleeding.....

Author
Mr Mickey
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2011-09-16 12:12:51 UTC
Hi,

I have been successfull at market trading and recently have started another character to also learn trade and place him in another region.

I currently manage 280+ orders and i check each buy / sell order every day. This proccess takes around 40 minutes to an hour depending on how many items i buy / sell - naturally. However the duration of completing the order is not a problem - infact i find it quite relaxing.

However, this is alot of clicks and small mouse movments every day. Over the last year i have noticed the pain levels increasing in my hand and to add my face is gradually getting closer to the screen.... I have had to resort to using the Windows 7 magnifier to see the orders, wich is not ideal - but i cannot think of a way to reduce pain in my hand????

I have attempted to use my left hand but this is like letting your 5 year old drive your car .

Does any one else have this problem, and do you have any suggestions - please its killing me.

Thank you

Mr Mickey.
A Little Girl
#2 - 2011-09-16 12:17:21 UTC
Hey Mister you should see the optician and doctor and not play so much!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury
stoicfaux
#3 - 2011-09-16 12:39:28 UTC
I'm not a doctor, but I would think that an hour a day shouldn't be causing RSI and/or eyestrain. Which probably means you're doing other RSI things on the computer, or you have a real problem. If it is RSI you need to vary your routine and give your hand a rest.

However, to be safe:
See a doctor.
See an optometrist about needing to get closer to the monitor. You may need glasses. I'm vaguely sure that your eyes are going bad and playing Eve isn't the cause.

Or if you're too manly to see a doctor, take a week off and see if your hand improves. The eye thing still requires a trip to the optometrist.


Also, if you're overweight, don't exercise, eat a lot of carbohydrates (chips, soda, pasta,) and your extremities tingle or your stomach is upset after high-carb meals/food then I doubly recommend a trip to the doctor on the off-chance that the eye problem is diabetes related.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Mr Mickey
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2011-09-16 12:49:17 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I'm not a doctor, but I would think that an hour a day shouldn't be causing RSI and/or eyestrain. Which probably means you're doing other RSI things on the computer, or you have a real problem. If it is RSI you need to vary your routine and give your hand a rest.

However, to be safe:
See a doctor.
See an optometrist about needing to get closer to the monitor. You may need glasses. I'm vaguely sure that your eyes are going bad and playing Eve isn't the cause.

Or if you're too manly to see a doctor, take a week off and see if your hand improves. The eye thing still requires a trip to the optometrist.


Also, if you're overweight, don't exercise, eat a lot of carbohydrates (chips, soda, pasta,) and your extremities tingle or your stomach is upset after high-carb meals/food then I doubly recommend a trip to the doctor on the off-chance that the eye problem is diabetes related.



Cheers for the advice mate, appriechiated.

I do exercise / wieght lift etc - although i am about 10% overweight but it fits my build.

I was tested for diabeties a number of years ago and lucky for me i was not diabetic.

I agree - the eyes, i could do somthing about it. However other applicaitons, allow me to increase the font size. The font within eve is very small and "i think" it causes strain regardless of how good your eye balls are.

Unfortunatly (like the majority of eve players) I work in an IT department. I use the PC for around 12/16 hours a day.

I use special writing tools but a mouse is manditory... the ones with the big balls are just pants.



flakeys
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-09-16 13:12:36 UTC
Mr Mickey wrote:
Hi,

I have been successfull at market trading and recently have started another character to also learn trade and place him in another region.

I currently manage 280+ orders and i check each buy / sell order every day. This proccess takes around 40 minutes to an hour depending on how many items i buy / sell - naturally. However the duration of completing the order is not a problem - infact i find it quite relaxing.

However, this is alot of clicks and small mouse movments every day. Over the last year i have noticed the pain levels increasing in my hand and to add my face is gradually getting closer to the screen.... I have had to resort to using the Windows 7 magnifier to see the orders, wich is not ideal - but i cannot think of a way to reduce pain in my hand????

I have attempted to use my left hand but this is like letting your 5 year old drive your car .

Does any one else have this problem, and do you have any suggestions - please its killing me.

Thank you

Mr Mickey.


Had the same problem when i was managing 500+ orders for 3 months and gave up because my hand/wrist hurt a LOT.Also got trouble with it during the day at work etc so gave up trade then.I do trades again now as of a few months but a LOT less click itnensive , i only update about 20 orders daily and the rest once a week or not at all.

My adivce if it get's worse then quit it before you're gonna have serious problems with it.Lasted approx 2 months for me after i gave up trading before it was gone.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-16 13:23:07 UTC
try using a trackball?

Also, I used to have similar problems, and just had to fiddle around with how my desk was set up, and what mouse I was using.
Dane El
Negative Density
#7 - 2011-09-16 13:42:55 UTC
Eve Mentat can automate a lot of the tasks associated with updating market orders. I find it greatly cuts down on the effort of updating market orders.
Alaik
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#8 - 2011-09-16 14:08:48 UTC
There's always the option of winding down the screen resolution a bit, that should make things bigger.
Mr Mickey
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2011-09-16 15:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mickey
Dane El wrote:
Eve Mentat can automate a lot of the tasks associated with updating market orders. I find it greatly cuts down on the effort of updating market orders.


This looks good, as it may reduce the number of clicks and reading, "if" it tells me which order has been beaten - rather then checking them all. I will give it a whirl tonight, and let you know how i get on.

I have attempted to use a trackball - but i find it a terrible experiance!

You guys/girls have been great - many thanks
Ariana DeSoto
High-Tech Duct Tape
#10 - 2011-09-16 16:34:31 UTC
Stop watching tiny porn. Shocked

I don't always play EvE, but when I do, I prefer it to be a masochistic sandbox hell. Stay wardecked my friends.

Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-16 17:17:19 UTC
Mr Mickey wrote:
I have attempted to use my left hand but this is like letting your 5 year old drive your car .



It can feel that way but actually once you start to handle your mouse with your left hand you realise that you become a heck of a lot more efficient.

Why? Because you can then use your right hand to do other stuff as well. E.g. - On the phone while checking web for relevant information to the discussion and taking notes of the conversation with the right hand... (yeah gotta love those conference calls :p) In fact, I keep telling people that I use the my mouse with my left hand *because* I am right handed, not in spite of it (but then I also happen to use a split keyboard and a vertical screen... pesky little details but I love it)

I had the same problem and when I switched to using the left hand it completely disappeared - in spite of having the same activity level the RSI symptoms that were killing my right wrist simply never appeared on my left hand. It may have been luck, or simply the fact that my left hand takes a lot less strain over the day but it worked for me.



Anecdotal evidence I know - but it worked for me.
Zenith Intaki
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-16 19:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenith Intaki
Over 70% of stock deals in USA stock market are done by trading bots. And they are legal.

Why CCP hasn't created in game trade bot, wich everyone would have to 'teach' to trade like they want? It would be just like in real world.

If we are using trading bots now, in 2011, why they wouldn't using them in future where EVE is?
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#13 - 2011-09-16 20:09:58 UTC
Zenith Intaki wrote:
If we are using trading bots now, in 2011, why they wouldn't using them in future where EVE is?


Because all bots have been destroyed during the Butlerian Jihad?

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-16 20:11:21 UTC

If you have problems with your eyes and need to get closer and closer to the screen
the best thing you can do, altough it sounds stupid actually ...

... blink (is that the right word?) more and look at stuff far away.

I've noticed two things killing the eyes of ppl ...
First is, that they blink less when staring at a screen, which dries out the eyes.
Second is, that they look at stuff that's close for hours and hours every day.

So ... apply a direct counter. Blink more and start going outside more, (no insult intended)
looking at stuff that's really far away ... preference: green. trees, etc.

Will definitly take quite some time ... but depends on your dedication.
If you can counter your "close looking" time by much more "far away looking" hours, you win.
(sorry for the bad english here ^^)

It works, i've tried. :)
Zeta Zhul
Preemptive Paranoia
#15 - 2011-09-17 14:05:16 UTC
1. I manage about 1,500 market orders.

2. I don't waste my time 0.01 isking.

3. The CCP API is your friend. Use a third party tool or a Google Docs spreadsheet to get a listing of your active market orders.

4. Use eve-marketdata.com to get a listing of market orders.

5. Compare #3 vs #4 and this will give you a list of those market orders that might need adjusting.

6. All trading is cyclical. Buy & sell prices go up and go down. Items are put up for sale, and if the prices aren't too far out of whack, will eventually sell. Buy orders, also if not too far out of whack, will eventually be filled.

7. Life is too short to spend 1 hour a day on this stuff. 1 hour a week is acceptable.

8. Don't bother with small margins. Go big or go home.
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#16 - 2011-09-20 14:50:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Grendell
I work in front of a computer a lot and I had problems with my wrist.

First I took a week off from work and the computer and purchased an orthopedic wrist band, and started using my left hand as my primary to give my right a break. During this week I purchased a vertical mouse that allows a more natural position for your wrist. After the week was over I started back on the computer slowly.

I also started taking regular breaks for my wrist and even made it a habit while I'm in front of the PC to re-position my wrist to a natural position while I'm not moving the mouse. That position being up right like if you were holding a coffee cup or joy stick.

Now I have zero pain.

As far as your eyes, they are like any other part of your body they will need rest as well. Take time to just close your eyes and relax.

EDIT: I use the vertical mouse at work where I spend more time in front of the computer. At home I use an ergonomic mouse. Don't forget it will take a day or 2 to get completely used to the vertical mouse.

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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#17 - 2011-09-20 19:06:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I'm not a doctor, but I would think that an hour a day shouldn't be causing RSI and/or eyestrain. Which probably means you're doing other RSI things on the computer, or you have a real problem. If it is RSI you need to vary your routine and give your hand a rest.



I think the advice that we're all thinking but aren't saying is: "Stop wanking".

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

SencneS
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-09-20 21:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: SencneS
Believe it or now but I laptop may be the way to go.

When updating orders in bulk I use my right hand to move the mouse, but my left had on the keyboard pressing the "mouse" buttons on the on-board option. Kind of distributing the amount of workload each hand has to perform.

It may not seem like much, but not having to press the mouse buttons on the same hand you move your mouse on really does reduce the strain. It also helps if you don't switch from keyboard to mouse. Updating orders doesn't require you to enter much if you setup your market screen to have quick link to your items.

If you're 0.01 ISKing your orders use the mouse wheel to adjust the price and "OK" click everything with your left handed mouse button on keyboard. This also reduces the incorrect order amount unless you scroll like a madman, and not pressing enter/moving your mouse over the "OK" button to confirm the order breaks up the chain enough you'll catch any incorrect prices.

It worked well for me, and I found it faster to update orders, reduced about 10-15 minutes off my order updates when I had about 250 items up for sale. The idea was reducing the amount of hand travel. My right hand never left the mouse, my left never left the keyboard and hardy ever moved.

TAB Key is important to tab out of enter boxes, I probably have a super off-hand pinky finger because that's my TAB finger Bear
Alain Kinsella
#19 - 2011-09-21 10:27:57 UTC
Zenith Intaki wrote:
Over 70% of stock deals in USA stock market are done by trading bots. And they are legal.


Not for much longer (in their current form anyway). The changes seem hellish, but I'd rather have that then another Flash Crash. P


I don't do much of anything that severely repeats (*glares at v1 PI*), since I already have bad wrists. But that motivates me to be smart about fewer items. Or just go into SL mode, and use US$ to get the ISK I need. Lol Thankfully I'm not tempted by that very often, had enough of that inSL itself...

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).

Adunh Slavy
#20 - 2011-09-21 20:09:40 UTC
It would be nice if CCP would highlight our own orders in the market window, so we know which are ours. And it would be nice if we could also update our own highlighted orders from the market window too.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

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