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capital ships and the solo player

Author
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#21 - 2016-10-10 13:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Duo Roman
You may feel good going solo but you don't know what you are missing until you join a corp with nice, like-minded people.

loneworf wrote:
I think i do get the drift of those comments that have been left and that is that the unfairness to the game shouldnt be a worry - but - let me tell you i feel like throwing stuff around the room when i get ganked like that and i put that down to a natural reaction to injustice that seem to be inbuilt. That instinct seems to have fuelled people like Mandela, Luther king etc.


Mandela ant Luther King fought to REMOVE different sets of rules applied to the same people. That is actually the opposite of what you are suggesting.
YeuxVerts Belle
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2016-10-11 10:49:19 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Eve advertises careers in mining , exploration , industry , pve etc but when it comes to pve a c6 wh is the ultimate


Wrong. There is no "ultimate". And even if there were, a lot of people could argue incursions and/or L5s are harder and more rewarding.

If you want to solo C5 or C6 sites, you can do them reasonably safely on Sisi. Or you can join a corporation that lives there.

All in all, you're pushing towards two aspects of Eve that are not part of Eve : solo gameplay, and safe PvE. It won't happen.

The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.

SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-10-12 15:11:43 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Thank you for your rely. I would like to point out though that not one of my carriers has paid for itself due to the interception of pvp ganking crews. the last carrier did 2x core garrison sites at approx 350m isk each but the carrier loses were 2.1b isk. not a good business model.



That your business model isn't very good is a problem YOU have to solve. You can't ask for the entire game to undergo a paradigm shift to accommodate the fact that you can't formulate a winning strategy.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#24 - 2016-10-13 03:30:52 UTC
I think the real progression in Eve is to try different aspects of the game -- not just advance in ship size.

Kudo's for living in WH space. And more kudo's for pulling it off solo.

If you think about capital ships in a navy, they are always protected by lots of non-capital ships. People like catching big fish. When you become a big fish, people will hunt you and you need the other ships to protect you.

If you want to use your capital for PvE you might consider moving to null rental space. Otherwise, you might need to move to a new hole if people are seeding your current hole for content.

Realistically, I don't see how CCP can do what you want without hurting the rest of the game. But don't give up on Eve, think of what you want to try next. Or don't write off the possibility of joining a corp. There are a lot of low-key corps where people are mature and don't bother you much -- just don't go on a Pandemic Horde drunk fleet ;-) .
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#25 - 2016-10-13 03:41:36 UTC
Duo Roman wrote:
Mandela ant Luther King fought to REMOVE different sets of rules applied to the same people. That is actually the opposite of what you are suggesting.
Or perhaps Ghandi, Mandela and MLK developed tactics to gain power for their group against a more powerful group that was ready to lose their master morality. Wouldn't work so well against ISIS or Nazi's, or the Amarian mindset in Eve.




seany1212
M Y S T
#26 - 2016-10-29 10:34:49 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Thank you for your rely. I would like to point out though that not one of my carriers has paid for itself due to the interception of pvp ganking crews. the last carrier did 2x core garrison sites at approx 350m isk each but the carrier loses were 2.1b isk. not a good business model. i finance their build by mining gas and what i can actually pve in the c5 wh were i live. I think i do get the drift of those comments that have been left and that is that the unfairness to the game shouldnt be a worry - but - let me tell you i feel like throwing stuff around the room when i get ganked like that and i put that down to a natural reaction to injustice that seem to be inbuilt. That instinct seems to have fuelled people like Mandela, Luther king etc. when injustice is real and needs addressing of which they did. ( im not making a heroic comparison to myself here though as that would be ridiculous ! ) Even though eve is a game it still appies. Eve advertises careers in mining , exploration , industry , pve etc but when it comes to pve a c6 wh is the ultimate and it cant actually be realised at present in a way that even breaks even in effort, time and skill. That needs addressing in my view. It does sound as if i stand alone in this point and i will have to let the matter rest and consider my future.


Your view of the game is completely wrong, mainly because you feel that with enough skillpoints you should be able to play the game with impunity, because you cannot see it any other way maybe this game isn't for you. Also as you 'feel like throwing stuff around the room when getting ganked' you might want to take anger management classes or find another hobby.

C5 and C6 PVE were never intended to be done solo, it was meant to be done with small/medium sized gangs depending on ships used and generated content for a range of people this being the idea. Nearly from the beginning people managed to pimp ships to run C5's solo (used to be able to run them in a tengu) but CCP took note and ramped up the neuting effect ruling that out. Now it's pimp fit bs's/marauders if you want to be able to do a select range of sites and then as mentioned by nearly everyone here that it isn't the intention and you're running great risk by doing it solo.

tl:dr; Working as intended.
Alysa Vanprice
of the Honor Guard
#27 - 2016-11-02 14:48:45 UTC
I'm a solo player...in the sense solo corp.

I solo'ed a WH for 3 months before I took my break in 2014. Look at my kill board...hmmm...theres something different...

I did a ton of research before even thinking about living in a hole. I also studied what it takes to survive the pvp aspect...DON'T BE STUPID.

I knew what was safe, and what was too risky...carrier is NOT an option. If the site requires a carrier...its too risky for the reward. Skip it and go to the lesser site with a better pvp survivability ship.

TLDR: Quit whining; You knew what you were getting into, and if you didn't, then you got what was coming. As I tell my kids...

Suck it up princess, and learn form you stupidity.
Captain Awkward
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2016-11-03 15:34:18 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Eve advertises careers in mining , exploration , industry , pve etc but when it comes to pve a c6 wh is the ultimate and it cant actually be realised at present in a way that even breaks even in effort, time and skill


Even if, who said you should be albe to solo a C6? Its like writing a angry letter to Blizzard that you cant Solo the latest 25+ Hardcore raid. Some stuff in game is simply not ment to be done solo. There is plenty of stuff in EvE that can be done solo. A C6 is not recomendet for solo.

Maybe you should consider leaving your WH and go into null. Join a nullsec alliance or move to Providance where you are wellcome even as a Solo Player.


Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
#29 - 2016-11-07 18:19:40 UTC
Yeah... I'll bite on this one.

Carriers, along with other capital ships, aren't really meant for solo play; between lack of mobility and lack of damage application to targets smaller than you (i.e. basically everything), you are a sitting duck to the first gang that can eliminate your fighters and break your tank.

You getting ganked isn't injustice, more people than just you banded together to 'poon your whale ass, if you don't get outgunned, you are going to get outnumbered, it is basically a rule you can count on.

Seems like you want a solo pwnmobile. Sorry, they don't exist. Eve isn't built or ballanced for the solo player. Seriously, spend some time on youtube and watch fleet battles between alliances and ask yourself what the result would be if every single cap deployed (I'll wait while you count them all) were the solopwnmobile you feel like it should be. Why fly anything else at that point.

You need to let your ideas of "progression" die, bigger ship classes don't necessarily give you the tools to succeed vs an entire hostile gang; everything you can train for either prepares you or sharpens your abilities to fufill different fleet roles; ships don't get better at everything as they get bigger.

Make some friends man, it will take you a long way in making every ship class enjoyable. There is a reason coprorations exist, just because you want to solo doesn't mean it is unfair for you to be attacked by a gang; you have an asset other people want to destroy, this should be enough of a lure to provide friends you make with content.

It doesn't matter what you are sitting in. At the end of the day, friendship is the best ship. Every solo boat is a km waiting to happen.

The obvious solution is to stop soloing and get involved in a player organization.

my other nano is a polycarb

Kaivarian Coste
It Came From Thera
#30 - 2016-11-07 18:49:55 UTC
I like to play solo but I disagree with this proposal.

If you make WHs as safe as high-sec, WH income will be EXACTLY the same as high-sec. And so it's pointless.

If you want higher reward, you need to accept higher risk.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-11-08 02:54:45 UTC
HA! HAHAHAHA!!! BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

no.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Orlacc
#32 - 2016-11-08 05:23:17 UTC
Simply ridiculous. WHs are getting to be the only place where things are free form. If you CHOOSE to play solo that is your problem.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Keno Skir
#33 - 2016-11-08 14:57:44 UTC
loneworf wrote:
thanks for the reponses - more than i expected. All i take from this are comments from PVP players. Are any of you solo players to be able to comment in kind ? if you are then you have a a fair voice if not you dont ---- i also think you are missing the point , show me were you can use a carrier as a solo player ?? do you agree the game is based on training - yes . then the goal of owning the best possible ships are not realised by all genre of player - that is my point - do you actually get the point?


I am a solo player (95% solo kills career so far) and i think you're being incredibly entitled. You can;t walk into a clearly labeled multiplayer game and expect there to be a special little place carved out where you "introverts" (wrong word) can play with your carriers in peace. Actually there is, the SiSi server. Every ship on SiSi is 1isk and there wont be many people trying to hunt you, fly carriers to your hearts content.

On Tranquility however EvE is a multiplayer game and allowing carebears like you the ability to wall yourself off from the rest of the game is incredibly damaging both to your learning and the the greater game as a whole.

There are ships that are more geared toward solo and ones that are more personnel intensive, this adds depth to the game. Honestly you're kind of lucky you didn't post this in GD or you'd never hear the end of it.

As i mentioned i fly almost exclusively solo and much of the time in wormhole space. You have no idea what you're saying. Go play on SiSi if you want single player.

(bet you won't tho, because you want loads of ISK on the main server just with no risk at all to yourself..)
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#34 - 2016-11-15 08:12:52 UTC
loneworf wrote:
Please see below a post i sent to ccp. Im curious if anyone else gets the same total frustration as me.



The proposed idea is that anyone who is in a fleet in a wh gets some kind of penalty when attacking solo players involved in pve at a site.


Yeh, there's already a penalty for people in fleets. its called having to put up with other people. Introverts have a massive advantae. I mean, have you had to hand out on comms with Jester?
Elk Oldfaith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#35 - 2016-11-21 14:39:46 UTC
I want to say loneworf has been a super cool guy in his comments in this thread. Even though his ideas may seem silly, he has been way more civil than the people disagreeing with him!

As a member of a WH PvP corp, I have some advice to give loneworf regarding solo PvE in WH space. Contrary to what many have said in this thread, solo PvE in WH space _is_ a potentially viable option. That is part of the beauty of Eve. You can play the game how you want.

That said, it is not necessarily _easy_ to play the game any given way. To do solo PvE in WH space, you need to be very very careful. This may involve: bringing all holes in your system to critical mass, warping to safety when a new sig spawns, ratting aligned and ready to warp away at the slightest whiff of trouble, and obsessive d-scanning, among other things.

It seems to me unlikely that petitioning to the devs on this particular matter will bring about much change. Instead, I recommend working within the existing rules of the game to achieve what you want, loneworf. Cool PvP WHers have methods, but you also have counter methods to deploy!
loneworf
Bank Notes in Isk
#36 - 2016-11-30 19:25:45 UTC
Thank you for your reply Elk Oldfaith i appreciate it. It would appear many dont share the same view that i do on the original post and i have to respect that. I do hope that at some level my view can also be respected as well. I was wondering if i could change the discussion fractionally. As explained before i have not made a carrier pay for itself yet in a wh environment. Some have given suggestions on how to achieve this and i do indeed employ most of the strategies suggested - a quick recap

1) I do align to my pos whilst in a site
2) I did close the wh's to critical and then bubble them
3) i do D scan alot - but on this point it makes no difference because of capital escalations. One is stuck there until one kills the advanced ships due to disruptors and this takes maybe 45minutes to an hour.
4) There is a module you can buy that prevents D scan from picking you up within 30km of its launch point but it only lasts 1 hour and costs 30m to buy. The use is limited.
5 ) i do the sites mid week off peak to help with less traffic being around in my wh.

These are the strategies i employ. Does anyone have any other ideas so that i could at least make a capital ship pay for itself? remember ---- i mean solo play. The fit i have is fantastic and cap stable with max training and very expensive fitting to achieve this. The character it was lost on was 'loneworfs brother' . Have a look and see what you can come up with please.
Duo Roman
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#37 - 2016-11-30 23:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Duo Roman
loneworf wrote:
Does anyone have any other ideas so that i could at least make a capital ship pay for itself?


You should collapse all the WHs. After you collapse them a new static will appear. Do not warp to the new static, your hole will be safe until a wandering WH pops up. (Edit: unless there is someone already in your system).
This way you will reduce the risk.
When new signature pops up, assume that someone entered your system and is already looking for you.
Egsise
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-12-09 05:53:16 UTC
loneworf wrote:


Its a great game but it could be better for the solo player - please remember not all people are extroverts who are craving companionship, 50% of the population are introverts or simply dont feel like interacting after a hard days work. im still wanting the same opportunities to use those ship skills that are the back bone of the game but i dont want to be simply fueling the PVP experience for its own sake. Surely a pvp experience is enhanced in a fair fight not picking on solo players were they have no risk at all.

The proposed idea is that anyone who is in a fleet in a wh gets some kind of penalty when attacking solo players involved in pve at a site. The idea is to make the fight fair and not a forgone conclusion. There needs to a a real deterrent or risk to attacking a carrier or similar vessel. This effect only to happen in wh space as null is the place for team pvp and this experience should not be changed for those players. This will give a genuine outlet to the training options you give and a reason to keep playing the game to the solo player.


As an 89% introvert(mbti tests <3 ) I don't understand your point.
Eve is a multiplayer game.

Sure we can have a fleet penalty when we fight against a single ship.
Then we would just be unfleeted and still killing your Chimera Big smile
Kosomot
Player Vs Ore
Miners Of Independence
#39 - 2016-12-15 00:27:43 UTC
I'm not going to carry on with what has already been said, but here is what i will say.

Find a new WH, I would never consider staying in a wormhole with Russians, they are way more bad ass than you.

it's way more secure in SOV Null and you fly around in your orca and do whatever you do.

You don't even have to talk to people just contribute on some level and people leave you alone,

and risk is as minimal as it gets in null, as long as you are not brain damaged and know how to use your tools.

That being said, even in high sec you can still get ganked in whatever you are flying.

Undock some fancy ship and just because they can some suicide squad just waiting for whatever undocks decides it's you.

That's EVE, it's what makes it great, that if you undock it you should be prepared to lose it

I will say, if you want, "I don't want anyone to hurt my feelings, and i shouldn't lose my stuff when my feelings get hurt"...well World of Warcraft is that way ----> Pirate


Fly Safe

I am a miner, mission runner, and explorer...

or as EVE Online would have it...

A Carebear!!

Aitu
Slap Fight Martial Artists
#40 - 2016-12-27 16:30:01 UTC
loneworf wrote:
thanks for the reponses - more than i expected. All i take from this are comments from PVP players. Are any of you solo players to be able to comment in kind ? if you are then you have a a fair voice if not you dont ---- i also think you are missing the point , show me were you can use a carrier as a solo player ?? do you agree the game is based on training - yes . then the goal of owning the best possible ships are not realised by all genre of player - that is my point - do you actually get the point?


I have solo PvE'd in wh space a lot. I dualed and triple boxed. I was able to solo capital escalations (carrier / dread / loki ) back when wolf rayets had an armor resist buff. I brought my caps in from nul and lowsec. At no point ever would I have considered "giving" a fight with them. With just a solo carrier I would clear c5/6 gas sites and gas mine.

During the time I spent with a small group I also flew caps. I would never have used them to fight.

I have not lost a capital ship but have help kill two.

At no point in my entire time playing Eve has there ever been a point where fighting in a cap would have been a good idea. I did once blow up a POS when no one was there to fight back if you want to count that.

You will always be out numbered and always out gunned. I have quit because of this in the past and I suggest you do the same.
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