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Dev blog: Mining Foreman Revolution

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Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2016-10-10 07:12:46 UTC
Just a mechanic question:
I activate the Panic Module with max skills=7.5 minutes
The exhumer pilots log off instantly and try to log in on another toon of their account with combat abilities which is stationed in the same system as the mining operation, form a fleet and warp to the mining op. That should be doable in under 5 min so the miners can defend themself. Does that work or is there some mechanic preventing from logging in on the same account while the other tonn with ship is still ingame?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#122 - 2016-10-10 07:34:24 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
teloded wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
teloded wrote:
Um I has question for CCP please follow the Link. I do my math on paper. Am I insane? I would really like to know.
http://imgur.com/a/9FBdj

Thanks



Materials are for making 500 charges.

500 heavy water at 200 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/16272/
500 Trit at 6.1 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/34/
500 isogen at 86.1 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/37/

(I've bumped the prices a bit from the lowest sell price)

So each charge will cost 292.2 isk to make, plus a little for taxes. call it 320 if you're making in jita (yay for easy division. and making in jita is dumb, as it increases your costs by 10%)

Call it half a million isk for a full days boosting for mining.



Thank you I missed the Batch count statement in the post.

But yes dont make in Jita, and I dont, only use it to check prices.
Still though having to spend 420,638 isk in materials (That I whole heartedly think is waste of materials). This just means I get to charge more on my finished products I guess.
(Possibly go in Orca thread?)
Also if they intend for this to be on grid all the time. Why make the ore hold bigger for the Orca?
Filling it would be pointly then. This becomes a problem because you also have to start calculating travel time to and from station. Using this given time, you can calculate total minerals not lost and get a closer number. Also calculate minerals not mined via loss of boosts... WHY CCP???? WHY MUST YOU MAKE ME RECALCULATE PROFITS!!!!
(Possibly a question that belongs in the Orca thread?)

Do that or just buy a second orca and jet can mine via the Orca



You have the larger bay, to give the people you're supporting more time on grid. With hulks, for example.
That's it. The extra 3 or 4 minutes on grid will make all the difference.

Orca needs a watered down compression module, 50% of Rorqual compression. If the damn thing is to be forced on grid, make it viable to use and keep on grid.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#123 - 2016-10-10 07:42:27 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Just a mechanic question:
I activate the Panic Module with max skills=7.5 minutes
The exhumer pilots log off instantly and try to log in on another toon of their account with combat abilities which is stationed in the same system as the mining operation, form a fleet and warp to the mining op. That should be doable in under 5 min so the miners can defend themself. Does that work or is there some mechanic preventing from logging in on the same account while the other tonn with ship is still ingame?
You can only have one character per account active, so yes there is a restriction.
You would need to log in a character from an alternate account (an alt with combat capabilities)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Anthar Thebess
#124 - 2016-10-10 08:56:13 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Just a mechanic question:
I activate the Panic Module with max skills=7.5 minutes
The exhumer pilots log off instantly and try to log in on another toon of their account with combat abilities which is stationed in the same system as the mining operation, form a fleet and warp to the mining op. That should be doable in under 5 min so the miners can defend themself. Does that work or is there some mechanic preventing from logging in on the same account while the other tonn with ship is still ingame?
You can only have one character per account active, so yes there is a restriction.
You would need to log in a character from an alternate account (an alt with combat capabilities)

Or leave mining barges logged out while you warp in 15 carriers and 5 fax to the grid.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-10-10 14:42:31 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Or leave mining barges logged out while you warp in 15 carriers and 5 fax to the grid.

That's exactly the question: it is possible to let the mining barges floating (toon unlogged but still there because of combat timer) and log in to another toon on the same account.
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#126 - 2016-10-10 23:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: NeoShocker
Man, I do like the change, but needing the rorqual on field for fleet bonus with industrial core... Tech 1 is 5 minutes, fine. But I'd like to see Tech 2 industrial core's timer down to 1 minute, or 30 seconds! I mean, it is kind committing too much to have Rorq on a belt and being stuck is not ideal. I don't even think its worth activating the industrial core at the belt despite its hefty bonus.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#127 - 2016-10-11 00:25:22 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Or leave mining barges logged out while you warp in 15 carriers and 5 fax to the grid.

That's exactly the question: it is possible to let the mining barges floating (toon unlogged but still there because of combat timer) and log in to another toon on the same account.

NO, the logout timer means the character is technically still in space. You can scan down and kill a ship (and pod) of someone with a log out timer because they can not not log out of the game, they can close that instance of the EXE but the character remains logged in.
Jump on SISI and try it - You can't have more than one character per account logged in.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2016-10-12 00:56:58 UTC
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#129 - 2016-10-13 11:39:57 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


2 Ice Harvestings drones and 3 Warriors... and your problem is solved :)

I think, they want to ensure on the one side, that ships with a smaller bandwidth cannot use the drones.
And on the other side, it is limited up to 2 ice drones.

If you half it, you can use 5/2 = 25 % more than intended.
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#130 - 2016-10-14 00:21:07 UTC
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


The Covetor has a 50ms and 50m3 drone bay. Use the Orca's fitting service (mobile fitting) and change to lites if required.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#131 - 2016-10-14 13:44:22 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


2 Ice Harvestings drones and 3 Warriors... and your problem is solved :)

I think, they want to ensure on the one side, that ships with a smaller bandwidth cannot use the drones.
And on the other side, it is limited up to 2 ice drones.

If you half it, you can use 5/2 = 25 % more than intended.

Actually at 50mb/s bandwidth it is ONE ice drone for all except the Rorqual, which can use 2. (that is unless Devs are increasing drone bandwidth on the Orca and exhumers to 100mb/s, which according to the Orca blog, they aren't, 50/200.

You are right about one thing, lower skilled pilots using Procurers and Retrievers for ice mining will not be able to use the new drones - This is just a way to ensure their income stays over 50% less than higher skilled pilots. The casual miner who uses barges will just have to accept, he will not benefit from the coming (extreme) buff to ice mining.

As for the Rorqual and its drones, it should have 1 flight of light or support fighters - After all, it should be able to defend a mining fleet from more than just belt rats.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#132 - 2016-10-14 13:47:09 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


The Covetor has a 50ms and 50m3 drone bay. Use the Orca's fitting service (mobile fitting) and change to lites if required.

So the whole fleet has to sit at 2500m/s from the Orca, that works Roll

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2016-10-15 15:12:41 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Just a mechanic question:
I activate the Panic Module with max skills=7.5 minutes
The exhumer pilots log off instantly and try to log in on another toon of their account with combat abilities which is stationed in the same system as the mining operation, form a fleet and warp to the mining op. That should be doable in under 5 min so the miners can defend themself. Does that work or is there some mechanic preventing from logging in on the same account while the other tonn with ship is still ingame?

I don't think there is a mechanical restriction. Your barge would still be stuck in space (also not receiving any kind of bonuses) but the second character slot could probably log in and do stuff
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#134 - 2016-10-15 18:37:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Penance Toralen wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


The Covetor has a 50ms and 50m3 drone bay. Use the Orca's fitting service (mobile fitting) and change to lites if required.

So the whole fleet has to sit at 2500m/s from the Orca, that works Roll


If they are transferring directly onto the fleet hangar, then it is required.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#135 - 2016-10-15 23:41:57 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Penance Toralen wrote:
Dark Lord Trump wrote:
I notice that ice mining drones are 50m3 and 50mb/s. Could you halve the yield and decreases the bandwith to 25? That way mining barges will be able to use them as well as exhumers, and they won't drive rorqual pilots mad with the extra 25mb/s left over. Or is this intended?


The Covetor has a 50ms and 50m3 drone bay. Use the Orca's fitting service (mobile fitting) and change to lites if required.

So the whole fleet has to sit at 2500m/s from the Orca, that works Roll


If they are transferring directly onto the fleet hangar, then it is required.

But that isn't what you were referring to - sitting on top of an orca just so you can switch out drones is bad (and quite silly) for 2 reasons.
1; you can't cover enough of a belt when you have everything sitting clumped up
2; all those drones being stored in an Orca's tiny fleet hangar just leaves less space for whatever your mining.

sitting on top of an orca (for any reason), it just ins't practical, that's why you have a tractor beam

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2016-10-16 15:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Chan'aar
As has been mentioned several times in the Porpoise and Orca threads the command ships are just going to get bumped away from their fleets.

That didn't matter so much when the links were system wide but it is going to make a huge difference when the command bursts only have a 50km range.

Any thoughts on bumping CCP Fozzie?
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#137 - 2016-10-16 16:27:02 UTC
A 5 minutes "Bastion module" with +900 % mass or even more but -100 % speed would be nice.
So you have to think about, if you want to slow-boat trough the belt or if you want to be immune to bumpers.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#138 - 2016-10-16 20:04:37 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
teloded wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
teloded wrote:
Um I has question for CCP please follow the Link. I do my math on paper. Am I insane? I would really like to know.
http://imgur.com/a/9FBdj

Thanks



Materials are for making 500 charges.

500 heavy water at 200 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/16272/
500 Trit at 6.1 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/34/
500 isogen at 86.1 isk per unit. https://market.fuzzwork.co.uk/hub/type/37/

(I've bumped the prices a bit from the lowest sell price)

So each charge will cost 292.2 isk to make, plus a little for taxes. call it 320 if you're making in jita (yay for easy division. and making in jita is dumb, as it increases your costs by 10%)

Call it half a million isk for a full days boosting for mining.



Thank you I missed the Batch count statement in the post.

But yes dont make in Jita, and I dont, only use it to check prices.
Still though having to spend 420,638 isk in materials (That I whole heartedly think is waste of materials). This just means I get to charge more on my finished products I guess.
(Possibly go in Orca thread?)
Also if they intend for this to be on grid all the time. Why make the ore hold bigger for the Orca?
Filling it would be pointly then. This becomes a problem because you also have to start calculating travel time to and from station. Using this given time, you can calculate total minerals not lost and get a closer number. Also calculate minerals not mined via loss of boosts... WHY CCP???? WHY MUST YOU MAKE ME RECALCULATE PROFITS!!!!
(Possibly a question that belongs in the Orca thread?)

Do that or just buy a second orca and jet can mine via the Orca



You have the larger bay, to give the people you're supporting more time on grid. With hulks, for example.
That's it. The extra 3 or 4 minutes on grid will make all the difference.

Orca needs a watered down compression module, 50% of Rorqual compression. If the damn thing is to be forced on grid, make it viable to use and keep on grid.


Bring Freight containers - fill them off the orca, have them picked up by a freighter.
Or just bring the freighter and fill it off the Orca.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#139 - 2016-10-17 01:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Why ship ore back to station in the Orca? I use a nano-warp-Miasmos. 62k m3 ore hold. Park it in the SMB, mine away. As the Orca starts to fill, switch one of the miners to hauler duty, fly one or two loads back to station. Then switch back to mining. No loss of boosts, much less time spent warping/aligning/etc.

I would far prefer to have an actual ORE hauler (eg: specialised Transport Ship equivalent to blockade runner and deep space transport), but the Miasmos does the job just fine.

I usually have very small mining fleets, so having a freighter standing by is really a waste of a character.

Make sure your hauler is a Gallente character if you use an Alpha account.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#140 - 2016-10-17 09:01:22 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Why ship ore back to station in the Orca? I use a nano-warp-Miasmos. 62k m3 ore hold. Park it in the SMB, mine away. As the Orca starts to fill, switch one of the miners to hauler duty, fly one or two loads back to station. Then switch back to mining. No loss of boosts, much less time spent warping/aligning/etc.

I would far prefer to have an actual ORE hauler (eg: specialised Transport Ship equivalent to blockade runner and deep space transport), but the Miasmos does the job just fine.

I usually have very small mining fleets, so having a freighter standing by is really a waste of a character.

Make sure your hauler is a Gallente character if you use an Alpha account.


Back in the day. we dident have the miasmos with its 62k ore hold, also we dident have ore holds on the mining barges/exhumers, we where stuck with having 1k cargohold for the proc (and super weak tank) 2k for the retriever and then 4k for the covetor, and the skiff had bonuses to mercoxit mining, the mackinav had ice mining bonuses and then the hulk was the king of the mining ships. but the orca was the only ship that had a ore hold, fleet hold and good cargohold (the current orca) with these changes it can fullfil its roles as ore hauler and be good att boosting the fleet as well as be strong in its tank. so it will be the core of a efficient mining op again and not be stuck of grid cause there is no reason to ever bring it on grid currently.