EVE New Citizens Q&A

Hey boys and girls!

I got ganked by a camper at a LoSec gate, and am looking for an advice.

So I've seen a suspect before I jumped to the next system, so I decided to stay clocked and be extra careful in the next system (before you ask, I usually do so, especially in LowSec and I know how to use D Scan - sort of... getting there...). Anyway, I see him jumping right behind me and decloaking, so what did I do? I rotate my camera and immediately choose to jump right back. While doing so, I started entering decloaking animation and turning 180 towards the gate to jump, but he managed to get a lock on to me, use Warp Disruptor and blow me to pieces in a matter of seconds.

Now, I'm still new to the game, as you can see... I thought that when I chose to jump, and when the velocity gauge at the bottom of the HUD said 'Warping...', that it's somehow a done deal - you enter or initiate animation for jumping (or warping in other cases I guess) and that's it.

So my question would be: What are the mechanics behind all this? How did he managed to lock onto me so quick and apply all these effects?

Also, would I be able to escape if I warped in the direction I was facing instead of letting the game do the decloacking and turning towards the gate animation for me? I'm asking because when I warp in the direction I'm facing (cloaked or not), it takes a good amount of time for the craft (Tier I Frigate in my case) to actually start warping. Am I vulnerable and prone to Warp Disruption in those cases as well?

You don't actually enter warp until hitting 75% of your maximum speed on a vector within a few degrees of your destination.

If you're at a standstill, you will accelerate in any direction at the same rate - your ship really only has a "front" when you're in motion, so you're just a directionless blob when you come out of a gate jump. The animation of your ship turning in this circumstance is purely an aesthetic thing. Indeed, slowly turning ships can be made to warp quite sideways (visually) because of this.

In many situations, it's safer to burn back to the gate than try to warp away.

Here's a pretty exhaustive document that covers quick pointing and the like: https://english.eve-guides.fr/index.php?article=105#InstaLockUltraLock

Good on you OP! You encountered a less than desirable situation and now you are asking questions.

We need more newbies like you!


Okay... so...

You are only "invulnerable" once you are actually in warp.

Up until that point... pressing the button to warp, aligning your trajectory to within 3 to 5 degrees of the warp destination, and increasing speed to ~75% of max velocity... you are vulnerable just like every other ship on grid.

This means other people can target lock you, bump you, shoot you, and warp disrupt you.


Pull up your fitting window. Go to the right side and check out the numbers around your sensor strength.

You should see two numbers called "Sig Radius" and "Scan Resolution."


"Sig Radius" can best be described as your ship's "sensor footprint." The bigger the number, the easier you are to target lock and the easier you are to hit.
Frigates average between 20 to 50m in Sig Radius. Battleships are closer to 400.

"Scan Resolution" is your ship's ability to target an object. The higher the number, the faster you can lock a target.
Frigates average between 500 to 700 Scan Res... Battleships are closer to ~100.


This means that Frigates can target lock Battleships very fast while Battleships target lock Frigates very slow.

Now here is where it gets interesting:

There are modules that can increase a ship's Scan Resolution by significant percentages. The Sensor Booster is one such example.
If you fit enough of these modules then even a Battleship can get Frigate-level Scan Res.


Once target lock is achieved, the hostile ship can then apply Warp Disruptors to effectively "throw a wrench" in your warp drive and prevent you from warping away.



No. What you are referring to is called "passive aligning."
It is a myth that I am sure more than a few others will attempt to convince you is true (it isn't).

The reality is...

- the server sees you ship as nothing more than a "sphere" filled with stats. Your "front" is based entirely on your trajectory (see: alignment PLUS speed).
------ in absence of a trajectory (see: sitting still at 0 m/sec) your ship will have no "front" and you will align to warp in the same amount of time in any direction.

- what you see on your computer is merely the graphics (which are all client-side) attempting to make sense of what the server is saying is happening.
This is why you will sometimes see ships warp sideways or do funky things (graphically) when bumped by another ship.




With all that said... you DO have some options if you encounter another situation like this in the future.
Do note that NONE of these options are foolproof (nothing in EVE ever is) and you can still be killed if your attacker is fast and/or prepared enough to anticipate and counter such actions.


Option 1: You can fit your ship to align and warp very, VERY fast. We are talking less than 2 seconds.
You can do this by fitting certain modules to increase your agility.
Modules like...
- Nanofiber Internal Structures: reduces your HP and cargo space... increases agility and max speed.
- Inertial Stabilizers: increases your Signature Radius (making you easier to target lock)... increases agility.
- certain astro rigs: each one of these has a penalty associated with it... choose carefully.

(Side Note: the reason 2 seconds is important is because the server receives, processes, and sends out information to the player clients once every second.
This gives you an automatic 1 second "cushion" after performing any action before the server can potentially recognize any action taken by a potential attacker. Then take into account the time it takes for a player to recognize and issue a response action to the server based on your appearance/action).


Option 2: "Crash" the gate! If you do not think you can align in time, burn back to the stargate you came from ASAP and jump back through.
This is why many fits out there recommend a person to have a Microwarpdrive fitted.
If you are fast enough and/or can soak up enough damage... you will make it.
Once on the other side... warp away to something, anything, before anyone can follow you through and "finish the job."


Option 3: The Cloak-MWD trick.
This move is a bit tricky, requires some practice, and generally only works on slower, bulkier ships.
The gist of it is this; align your ship to your target destination (from 0 m/sec)... pulse your MWD for a single cycle to increase your agility and max speed and at the same time initiate your cloak (which also affects your max speed)... then, once the MWD cycle nears its end, decloak and hit warp.
Timing is critical so you may want someone to teach you.


Option 4: Train to use an actual cloaking ship.
With a ship that is specifically geared to use a Covert-Ops cloak you can essentially hit "warp" and then "cloak." Pretty simple.
However timing is still critical and you will need to practice a bit to get the timing right.
Failure to get the timing just right can often mean death as the cloaking device will not function if you are targeted by anything or anyone.
(hint: do not hit "cloak" until you see the text "Warp Drive Active" over your capacitor HUD).

Option 5: Warp Stabilizer Modules.
Warp Stabs may save you today, but they may never do so again. Use situationally.

Broadsword pilot lost one recently with a local SEBO fit, which would probably give it a 3.something lock time on the Kestrel fit in question. With low navigation skills a kestrel could warp slowly enough to be caught by that.

It's also worth noting, OP, that if you're trying to warp away, do NOT hit your MWD (cloaky-MWD tricks, aside) - it will both increase the amount of time it takes to enter warp, AND blow your sig up immensely, making for much faster locks.

Quoting for emphasis and to shamelessly promote my thread illustrating it.

If you get locked by a HIC after jump, your ship is pretty much dead*. I would not bet on the dice of ECM. So your only chance is to not get locked in the first place making use of instawarp (<2s), covert cloak, or Cloak-MWD trick. Burning back to the gate is not an option, because you are scrammed (MWD is shut down) and a second later webbed to standstill by the long range webbing ship of the camp.

* though your pod is not lost if you are in lowsec. Accepting the death of your ship, you have align to somewhere and spam warp (except the gate you came from) to get out as soon as your ship explodes. Pods warp instantly in this case. In nullsec you are bubbled and the pod will die as well.

This is the reason why most of us are zipping around in instawarp interceptors tanked against smartbombs (the next threat, if your pod survived the camp ... ).

In theory an ECM module would give you a chance of dropping his lock and giving you a chance of getting away. Without getting into the specifics of ECM it would not be worth you fitting one in the future to try and prevent this. You can read up on ECM if you want to see how it works and it is not that ECM won't work it's just not your best option here.

If you are trying to travel fit your best bet is to fit for fast warp which means fast align time. So you want agility mods and rigs. What you are trying to do is enter warp before your opponent can get a lock.

You also want to fit some tank so that you can survive the burn back to the gate if you get pointed or if there are smart bombs on grid.

So my advice if you were in that exact same situation again would be to first try warping off ( to the next gate or to a celestial if you think the next gate might be bubbled or camped ). Then watch closely for the indication that you got pointed, there will be a message that pops up in the middle of your screen as well as graphical indication on your circle shaped HUD as well as next to the opponent on your overview ( if you have it set to show that ).

If you do get pointed then hit Ctrl + space bar to stop trying to warp and then burn back to the gate and spam jump. The point of this line of action is to force the other pilot to take a one minute timer by taking an aggressive action ( pointing ). This way if you do make it back to the gate he can not follow you for 60 seconds.

Things to keep in mind:

When fitting for tank make sure to avoid modules that blow up your sig radius like shield extenders. Also modules which increase mass should be given a second thought as well since they slow down your align time. You might have to make some compromises but just keep in mind you are trying to keep your align time and sig radius low while increasing your survivability.

A prop mod could be good for burning back to the gate.

The best way to get out of a gate camp is to never be in it in the first place. Scouting ahead in a free rookie ship can help with this but there are also tools available through the map and via KBs that can help you to check for recent activity in the systems that you are attempting to travel through.

There is nothing that you can do to guarantee success so keep in mind you will loose ships in this game. This game is an MMO and your best bet is always to bring friends. Also if you need to move stuff through low or null sec getting a corp mate to help you cyno stuff around gate camps can be helpful also.

The problems with ECM are:

1. It's unreliable.
2. It is a hostile action, so it will give you a timer and make the gate locked to you.

Because of this a dual prop config can be a more effective mid slot than ECM. So fit AB AND MWD. If you are trying to burn to gate and broadsword infini-points you, then you hit the AB and align again while your ship is still moving fast. This at least keeps you moving towards the gate instead of siting like a duck. Hit all defensive modules and maybe you'll make it.

Rule #1 Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
When in doubt fly the free rookie ship. If you die, no big deal.
Best ship in EvE is friendship. It sounds corney but it's true.
For every fit, there is a counter fit.
Bigger is not better.

---

Ok, we've pretty well covered the flight options. But what about offensive? How about shooting the broadsword down? Isn't that even more fun? As a solo rookie it's not likely because of low skills, both player and character, but it is something you could look forward to in the future. Or it is worth trying now in a ship you can afford to lose. Since you will lose some ships learning the combat tactics anyway. While practicing, just use meta one mods for cheaper goodness. When you can win fights with meta 1, you will be absolutely scary with higher meta mods.

Please, before I go on, realize that I am basically a carebear so if anyone comes later and says that I'm wrong, I'm going to defer to them. Lots of younger guys and girls here would rip me a new one if we met in pvp. I mostly know the theory, because in EVE even if you want to carebear, you need to know pvp theory.

So let's look at it from the Broadsword's perspective. Broadsword is fitted heavily for DPS. This is because he needs to kill anything quickly before friends or enterprising strangers show up. Also, the broadsword needs to be able to tank the gate guns. So any gate camper will have a pretty decent tank. Also, we are going to assume that the broadsword is solo, because it does happen. Although it is unlikely.

Because if this, it is possible for a surprised frigate to take on the broadsword. Usually a pilot that does this will be a local fighting locals. Strangers will try to move along, but a local pilot would have a fair idea about how far away any help the broadsword has is going to be, or if the guy really is solo.

So a frigate doesn't have to break the broadsword's tank alone. You only have to be the straw that broke the broadsword's back, since it is constantly taking hits from the gate guns. I think a kestral should be able to do that much.

Thus a frigate anti-broadsword fit would be something like Point-AB-TD Even at low skills, a TD can really improve a frigate's survive-ability against a larger ship's guns. If you don't know if they have a web, stay just outside of web range. If you know they don't have a web, fly close enough to scratch their paint. You're a missile ship the broadsword uses turrets, so closer is better.

Let the Broadsword point you first so he gets the gun hits. If you shoot first the gate guns will shoot you. Follow this, and you a newbie kestral pilot have a legitimate chance of beating an older pilot in a much more expensive ship.

It appears that my fit turned that insta-locker into ultra-locker as I managed to increase my sig radius and decrease agility with some modules (I was following an offensive T1 Frigate PvP fit guide by mistake). Now, I am not sure that the pointing took him 1 second, but it was damn quick. On the other hand, even if it took him 2 secs, I still won't be able to insta-warp, so I was toast one way or the other.

I've taken into account what everybody said, and did some research. It's gonna take some time to practice the tactics mentioned earlier, but until then, I've decided to wait until I skill up, and make use of my shuttles to get to know and bookmark some safe spots in closer LoSec systems.

Thanks for the support guys, means a lot to me, and... Hope to see you someplace in New Eden! :)

Cheers!