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4 minutes with an XL booster...? I must be mising something...
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freshspree
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-09-15 15:58:46 UTC
Check in game for Gist C-type XL shield booster. All these guys just giving T.M.I.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-09-15 18:11:18 UTC
fogbird wrote:
if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5.


Lady Spank wrote:
XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.

I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.

My Vargur was fitted with the following:

[Vargur, easy mode]
too much tank, too little gank



lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****).

in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.

cheers!

good man, I don't know how much more gank you can slap on that vargur. unless you fit RF or officer gyros.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Koranoth
Mabo Land Rights
#23 - 2011-09-15 20:24:55 UTC
I checked BC, and it is gist... how embarrassing. Then I created a topic on what I'm about to ask, instead of hitting reply... how embarrassing X2.

You were completely correct about the four minutes, however, 4 minutes, still worries me. Don't get me wrong, I should without a doubt be able to clear the majority of the firepower within four minutes, I'm still worried about the what ifs. What if I for some reason miss continually due to Luck of the Draw. What if I get ws'd and am unable to escape from a hit and run mission type. Once those 4 minutes are up, I'm popped, and a couple billion is down the drain.

That is why I would like to know the plausibility of using a Pithum A-Type Med booster and a Boost Amp. I know supposedly only newbs like their ships cap stable, but I would rather be a cap stable newb, than a not cap stable "pro" floating around in a pod because he ran out of cap. Better safe than sorry is a saying I try to live by.

So if a Pithum A-Type Med and a boost amp would be enough to tank level 4s, I would be over joyed.
Flakey Foont
#24 - 2011-09-15 21:05:23 UTC
Koranoth wrote:
I checked BC, and it is gist... how embarrassing. Then I created a topic on what I'm about to ask, instead of hitting reply... how embarrassing X2.

You were completely correct about the four minutes, however, 4 minutes, still worries me. Don't get me wrong, I should without a doubt be able to clear the majority of the firepower within four minutes, I'm still worried about the what ifs. What if I for some reason miss continually due to Luck of the Draw. What if I get ws'd and am unable to escape from a hit and run mission type. Once those 4 minutes are up, I'm popped, and a couple billion is down the drain.

That is why I would like to know the plausibility of using a Pithum A-Type Med booster and a Boost Amp. I know supposedly only newbs like their ships cap stable, but I would rather be a cap stable newb, than a not cap stable "pro" floating around in a pod because he ran out of cap. Better safe than sorry is a saying I try to live by.

So if a Pithum A-Type Med and a boost amp would be enough to tank level 4s, I would be over joyed.


Once more. You don't run an XL for 4mins straight. You pulse as needed, Cap regens. You pulse. Cap regens. This adds up to a lot more than 4mins.


But if you can afford a Pith Med you can run it constantly.
Koranoth
Mabo Land Rights
#25 - 2011-09-15 21:21:50 UTC
And on top of being able to run it constantly, would it be enough to tank level 4s?

If not, I suppose I might have to go with the Gist C-Type.
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
#26 - 2011-09-16 09:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: fogbird
Puss in Boots wrote:
fogbird wrote:
if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5.


Lady Spank wrote:
XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.

I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.

My Vargur was fitted with the following:

[Vargur, easy mode]
too much tank, too little gank



lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****).

in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.

cheers!


What's wrong with that fit? Too many fit snobs on this forum with out giving info on how to make it better. Stop posting.


real funny dude, i highlighted the parts in my post where i said what could be better on that fit namely fitting it like the bc fit. and i say it once more, it in fact is not as good a fit as the one the op found on bc, which was the whole point of my post in context of the original fit being dissed. i however never said, that ladies fit is bad or wrong, so stop being so whiny about it.

now in detail for you and the good man grimpak:

the tank part:
the atype large booster is more expensive and will provide a stable perma tank on ladies setup without the ab running. this is ok but not necessary. the burst tank on the bc setup works sufficiently long and tanks harder for this period. personally i fly only 2 hardeners and one boostamp.

the gank part:
for a burst tank to work, the more gank you have the better. and thats exactly why i dont think its good to spend so much on the booster but forgo faction gyros. they are important and you will use 4 of them for max. effect.
on top of that a 2t burst mod works very well on all marauders because they have only 2 rig slots and the calibration is sufficient for a usefull second rig. i fly a t2 em shield amp.
if you are semi serious about mission running and pvp you will have damage implants too. so combining the 4 (faction) gyros, the 2t burst and 1 cheap gunslinger implant (included in both setups) effects nets 175 dps more from guns alone (which is a lot -> ~20%!) and with better range on top (scripted TCs possible depending on mission).

little stuff:
there are only a very few missions, where an ab is useful. therefore id rather put a drone link in 1 of the highs and go sentries. the varg can only effectively field two of them, but they really help with stuff further out, when you dont want to move a lot.

conclusion:
how people fly missions is oc vastly different. i like them to be over as soon as possible, so the more gank the better for me. if you have an unstable connection or are semy afk by all means ladies fit will suit you, but you loose out on a lot of dps.

hope this helps and cheers!

edit: contend addition
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-09-16 11:51:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Go Diveher
fogbird wrote:
Puss in Boots wrote:
fogbird wrote:
if you have put that exact fit into eft and received only 1min cap, something is wrong with your eft or the skills aren't set to 5.


Lady Spank wrote:
XL boosters are for burst tanking as mentioned.

I wouldn't use Battleclinic for competent fits.

My Vargur was fitted with the following:

[Vargur, easy mode]
too much tank, too little gank



lady, while i agree that bc isnt the best place to get your fits from, it delivers on the cookie cutter fits perfectly well, if you have an understanding for fitting and know what to look for. so i dont really get the hate for it (except if you refer to the comments in the fitting section, that are mainly full of ****).

in fact seeing your fit, you should better have checked bc in this case.

cheers!


What's wrong with that fit? Too many fit snobs on this forum with out giving info on how to make it better. Stop posting.


real funny dude, i highlighted the parts in my post where i said what could be better on that fit namely fitting it like the bc fit. and i say it once more, it in fact is not as good a fit as the one the op found on bc, which was the whole point of my post in context of the original fit being dissed. i however never said, that ladies fit is bad or wrong, so stop being so whiny about it.

now in detail for you and the good man grimpak:

the tank part:
the atype large booster is more expensive and will provide a stable perma tank on ladies setup without the ab running. this is ok but not necessary. the burst tank on the bc setup works sufficiently long and tanks harder for this period. personally i fly only 2 hardeners and one boostamp.

the gank part:
for a burst tank to work, the more gank you have the better. and thats exactly why i dont think its good to spend so much on the booster but forgo faction gyros. they are important and you will use 4 of them for max. effect.
on top of that a 2t burst mod works very well on all marauders because they have only 2 rig slots and the calibration is sufficient for a usefull second rig. i fly a t2 em shield amp.
if you are semi serious about mission running and pvp you will have damage implants too. so combining the 4 (faction) gyros, the 2t burst and 1 cheap gunslinger implant (included in both setups) effects nets 175 dps more from guns alone (which is a lot -> ~20%!) and with better range on top (scripted TCs possible depending on mission).

little stuff:
there are only a very few missions, where an ab is useful. therefore id rather put a drone link in 1 of the highs and go sentries. the varg can only effectively field two of them, but they really help with stuff further out, when you dont want to move a lot.

conclusion:
how people fly missions is oc vastly different. i like them to be over as soon as possible, so the more gank the better for me. if you have an unstable connection or are semy afk by all means ladies fit will suit you, but you loose out on a lot of dps.

hope this helps and cheers!

edit: contend addition


Dude, you're an idiot.

Lady's fit was labelled "EASY MODE" and the fit was, surprise surprise, setup to be easy to fly Roll

People who min/max fits to eek out the maximum DPS are usually pretty hardcore into mission running, as they're not doing them (semi) AFK. If you're STILL making most of your ISK running missions by the time you can fly a Vargur, then you have issues my friend. Having to pulse your shield booster means you have to pay attention.

You then suggest 4 gyro's ... which shows a complete lack of understanding of:
- Tracking and falloff, and how applied DPS works
- The stacking penalty

Pimping the gyro's gives you an extra ~5% DPS for ~300mil and, again, has a very poor ROI unless you're a complete mission bear. Pimping the shield booster, however, makes the whole fit actually work.

So, in summary, you're pretty much the kind of idiot you find on battleclinic.
none770
Therapy.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2011-09-16 11:53:09 UTC
so you would rather be cap stable... so when you hit the wrong trigger your just ****** right? i would everyday of the week rather have that xl booster that lasts for 3 mins then that med booster thats cap stable... what are you gonna do if you hit the wrong trigger and the dps is higher then your tank? the xl booster gives you the time you need to break points and warp out the med booster just boosts happily as you die

so again...
your a newb go faction pimp a cnr with cprs in the lows like a cool kid
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
#29 - 2011-09-16 12:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: fogbird
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
no knowledge, just insults


1. the fit has 20% more dmg at better range and tanks harder. it is not harder to fly and applies dmg better.

2. the discussion about 4 dmg mods vs 3 is as old as your outdated opinion on mission running and faction boosters.

3. you made an ass of yourself and im sorry for you.

cheers!

and please more emoticons in your next post, only one hardly makes it more credible.
Puss in Boots
Naked Moon Industries
#30 - 2011-09-16 12:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Puss in Boots
"You then suggest 4 gyro's ... which shows a complete lack of understanding of:
- Tracking and falloff, and how applied DPS works
- The stacking penalty"



This. ^^


I don't always mission in EFT, but when I do... I'd rather have 3 faction gyro's than 4 t2.

The following is a fit just for sake of comparison of gyro dps and is not cap stable so it doesn't fit the requirements of the op
"4minutes 31 seconds" (but as stated by others, doesn't need to be as you don't need the booster on often). First is 3 faction gyro with 2 TE II's, second is 4 T2 Gyro with 1 TE. Everything else is the same. DPS doesn't include drones and is with my mission runners skills.

3 faction gyro = 771 dps 4.0/64.4 phased plasma 806 at skills to 5
4 t2 gyro = 772 dps 3.6/53.3 phased plasma 808 at skills to 5



[Vargur, Sir Topam Hat]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster

Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager I
Salvager I
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Phased Plasma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Personally, I prefer the Mach, but that is a bit that can be more skill intensive to make it better than this.
Othran
Route One
#31 - 2011-09-16 12:29:17 UTC
fogbird wrote:
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
no knowledge, just insults


1. the fit has 20% more dmg at better range and tanks harder. it is not harder to fly and applies dmg better.

2. the discussion about 4 dmg mods vs 3 is as old as your outdated opinion on mission running and faction boosters.

3. you made an ass of yourself and im sorry for you.

cheers!

and please more emoticons in your next post, only one hardly makes it more credible.



They're right. You're wrong.

Clearly there is little point in explaining (again) to you why you're wrong so I won't bother.
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#32 - 2011-09-16 12:42:51 UTC
fogbird wrote:
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
no knowledge, just insults


1. the fit has 20% more dmg at better range and tanks harder. it is not harder to fly and applies dmg better


Her fit was designed to be a CAP STABLE MISSION RUNNER. You can't REMOVE the cap stability from the equation, post another fit, then go "LOOK MA, EFT SES BETTAR!"

Quote:
2. the discussion about 4 dmg mods vs 3 is as old as your outdated opinion on mission running and faction boosters


The discussion always goes the same way, EFT retards vs. people who have a clue. The 4th gives you ~5% damage at a penalty of ~9% of your tracking and ~9% of your falloff. Unless your target is at optimal (3.5km) and has no transversal, you apply LESS damage.

Quote:
you made an ass of yourself and im sorry for you


Your perception of your post quality versus mine is rather skewed Blink
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#33 - 2011-09-16 13:19:19 UTC
none770 wrote:
so you would rather be cap stable... so when you hit the wrong trigger your just ****** right? i would everyday of the week rather have that xl booster that lasts for 3 mins then that med booster thats cap stable... what are you gonna do if you hit the wrong trigger and the dps is higher then your tank? the xl booster gives you the time you need to break points and warp out the med booster just boosts happily as you die

so again...
your a newb go faction pimp a cnr with cprs in the lows like a cool kid


I would suggest that the person that makes a balls up of the triggers is the newb, especially if you know its a tough room to tank and are not pre-aligned with scramblers killed.

You can always overheat the hardeners if you need to.

As for fogbirds comments, lol. Carry on being clueless while I kill things faster than you because I can actually track them or kill them from longer range while you fap to your EFT b1g nUMb3rz.

Vargur doesn't need an xlsb because it has nice resists. If you want a burst tank and want to kill stuff and GTFO you are better off saving money and using a Maelstrom, or flying a Machariel. Not that I care what you do, just don't keep making a tit of yourself here.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
#34 - 2011-09-16 14:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: fogbird
@lgd:

1. as you cant remove the 20% dmg advantage. its a simple discussion about whats more useful. for me its the later. see also point 2.

2. check your facts because this is getting ridiculous. the xl setup has more range and tracking than the setup youre so viciously trying to advocate. you will apply more dmg.

3. how many of your alts are posting in this thread?

cheers!
Puss in Boots
Naked Moon Industries
#35 - 2011-09-16 14:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Puss in Boots
fogbird wrote:
@lgd:

1. as you cant remove the 20% dmg advantage. its a simple discussion about whats more useful. for me its the later. see also point 2.

2. check your facts because this is getting ridiculous. the xl setup has more range and tracking than the setup youre so viciously trying to advocate. you will apply more dmg.

3. how many of your alts are posting in this thread?

cheers!



Post the fit or stfu. I've already proven how 3 faction gyro's do just as well as 4 t2.
fogbird
SmokingGuns Corp
#36 - 2011-09-16 14:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: fogbird
Puss in Boots wrote:


Post the fit or stfu. I've already proven how 3 faction gyro's do just as well as 4 t2.



i never (positively) mentioned t2 gyros ever! i was and still am talking about the bc fit the original poster referred to in comparison to ladys fit:

[Vargur, Vargurly Good DPS - 1321DPS @ 4.3+71KM]
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Federation Navy Tracking Computer
Federation Navy Tracking Computer
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Hammerhead II
Hobgoblin II


i also already discussed, what i would change about this bc fit and why. it boils down to this setup having more tracking, range, dps and burst tank and how i think that this is more desirable than a gimped capstable setup.

Edit: Cheers!
Flakey Foont
#37 - 2011-09-16 16:18:00 UTC
One more note: Level 4s are not that hard.
AFKCloaked AltSpy
Doomheim
#38 - 2011-09-16 16:37:07 UTC
Quote:
You were completely correct about the four minutes, however, 4 minutes, still worries me.


People will always chastise "cap stable", even though it does in fact have its place(s) in eve. However, on a marauder is not one of those places.

My machariel build is between 3:50 and 4:20 depending on what I run, or about a minute with MWD.

I cannot even remember the last time I heard an alarm go off on that ship.

That being said, Start small and work your way up with that ship and learn how to burst tank. IMHO, you need thermodynamics to burst tank properly. I don't have EFT installed on this PC, so i cant quote exact numbers, but the gun DPS is about 800, and the tank is like 500/300. Overheated it jumps to like 700 something.

Anyway, don't start out with AE4 bonus room or agroing the whole first room of "The assault". Work your way up and get a feel for the ship. 4 minutes should be MORE than enough.
Puss in Boots
Naked Moon Industries
#39 - 2011-09-16 17:47:00 UTC
fogbird wrote:
Puss in Boots wrote:


Post the fit or stfu. I've already proven how 3 faction gyro's do just as well as 4 t2.



i never (positively) mentioned t2 gyros ever! i was and still am talking about the bc fit the original poster referred to in comparison to ladys fit:

[Vargur, Vargurly Good DPS - 1321DPS @ 4.3+71KM]
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Photon Scattering Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Federation Navy Tracking Computer
Federation Navy Tracking Computer
Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster

800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
800mm Repeating Artillery II
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Projectile Burst Aerator II


Hammerhead II
Hobgoblin II


i also already discussed, what i would change about this bc fit and why. it boils down to this setup having more tracking, range, dps and burst tank and how i think that this is more desirable than a gimped capstable setup.

Edit: Cheers!



Ok, took this fit and did some comparisons. Numbers used are with phased plasma, no drones and skills to 5 and no implants.

4 faction gyro 1 TE = 916 dps 4.3k/71.1k
3 faction gyro 2 TE = 875 dps 4.5k/77.1k

To be honest, I don't think it much matters which way you go when using 2 tracking computers. I think they are about the same in practice. I personally like fitting an AB because the majority of the missions i accept require a bit of moving but it depends on the situation. I also prefer more range if i can get. While 6k may not seem like alot, it will make a larger difference at shorter ranges.


On the topic of cap stable or not. I think cap stable is something new players need to have as it offers more survivability when Worlds Collide takes 4 hours. As your skills increase, you move the line further from tank, and closer to gank. The majority of mission runners who have been doing it for a while, will most likely not have cap stable ships since they just don't need them to be.
Puss in Boots
Naked Moon Industries
#40 - 2011-09-16 17:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Puss in Boots
^^ What i said.
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