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3 minute warp timer (v2)

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Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#41 - 2016-10-06 09:38:19 UTC
Kip Winger wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Kip Winger wrote:
As for your last snarky comment, its never just one more nerf, as the game evolves, tweaks need to be made for all. Just like when the online notifications got removed unless it was a 2 way trust... or when the crazy amount of HP was added to the wrecks, so wreck popping became rare. It goes both ways my friend.
Of course it does. But those changes you cite were designed to improve overall game play and touched multiple aspects of the game.

You however, are asking for direct nerfs to the ability to tackle capital ships in highsec at no additional cost or effort for yourself. This will increase the cost and difficulty of engaging in highsec piracy for no reason you state other than you seem to feel entitled to move unhindered through highsec in whatever ship you want. How does reducing the risk to highsec haulers and giving them more safety for no effort or cost make the game better? It just encourages players to get more complacent, load more stuff in their haulers, and haul them AFK more often, and increases their anger when they do finally lose something to another player because they couldn't be bothered to protect it.

If there is a real problem (which is dubious - this more likely the result of carebear whining from players like yourself that has filtered up throught the CSM), it is that a single player can bump a undefended capital ship for hours on end in highsec to extort a ransom. So CCP is planning to limit the ability to bump-tackle ships indefinitely. They are not, as your OP seems predicated on, trying to prevent players from tackling ships in highsec at all so they have unfettered access to move their stuff around while watching Netflix.

This not a single player game. You are not entitled to free movement or have some intrinsic right to never be delayed more than 3 minutes. We'll see how CCP implements this (and can argue over this then, and in the correct forum), but it is likely to just be a simple reset which forces attackers to maintain a point as this is the simplest way to nerf bumping without negatively impacting the rest of the game.


"Improve gameplay as a whole", I guess you can believe what you like.

You can tackle the ship... But then you go criminal. Then concord blows you up. But you don't get another 3 minutes to gank. you have 3 minutes to gank from the minute he pushes the button to warp. This is not including AFK piloting people. So as you say "Watching Netfix".. If your not there to warp. Then the counter never starts and it is on the pilot to push the button. So you can bump the ship for 3 minutes.

"This not a single player game". Amazing you say such things. This is the reason why we have to live with the changes (for better or worse) to certain game mechanics just as much as you do. We all have a voice to be heard which is why a year or so ago someone on CSM person put the bug in CCP's ear about the wreck. In turn, maybe CSM did this... maybe it was just an evaluation of issues that have come up and needs to be BALANCED. Ya can still gank.... no one is saying you can't. Just move on with it. Maybe the timer is 5 minutes. Maybe 10. As you said we can talk about that more in the next post, when it is announced. I hope just to keep the thought alive with CCP.




I'll be concise in my answer:
-The "3 minute timer" resets when tackled (that's from the original CCP thingaling)
-the wreck changes were asked by super hunters in low/null and made a lot of sense (i.e. 5m ehp ship needs more than 500 hp wreck XD)

And no EVE isn't a single player game, I suggest you look at the definition of MMORPG Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

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Black Pedro
Mine.
#42 - 2016-10-06 11:22:35 UTC
Kip Winger wrote:
You can tackle the ship... But then you go criminal. Then concord blows you up. But you don't get another 3 minutes to gank. you have 3 minutes to gank from the minute he pushes the button to warp. This is not including AFK piloting people. So as you say "Watching Netfix".. If your not there to warp. Then the counter never starts and it is on the pilot to push the button. So you can bump the ship for 3 minutes.
Why should it be that way? You are asserting this idea like it "should" be this way or is how the game was designed. Why do you feel entitled not be to stopped for more 3 minutes? Are you not aware that you are suppose to be vulnerable to other players, even in highsec and take steps to protect yourself? Capital ships (all larger ships actually) were explicitly designed to be vulnerable to smaller ships interfering with them in order to require a support fleet. I don't why you think you are entitled to immunity from tackle in highsec. There is no rulebook that says pirates only have X amount of time to mess with you like you seem to imply.

Kip Winger wrote:
"This not a single player game". Amazing you say such things. This is the reason why we have to live with the changes (for better or worse) to certain game mechanics just as much as you do. We all have a voice to be heard which is why a year or so ago someone on CSM person put the bug in CCP's ear about the wreck. In turn, maybe CSM did this... maybe it was just an evaluation of issues that have come up and needs to be BALANCED. Ya can still gank.... no one is saying you can't. Just move on with it. Maybe the timer is 5 minutes. Maybe 10. As you said we can talk about that more in the next post, when it is announced. I hope just to keep the thought alive with CCP.
Exactly, things need to be balanced. Three minutes is not enough time to get a fleet in from even some neighbouring systems - that should be your first clue that CCP does not intend it to be some sort of hard cap. Proper piracy requires the selection of targets as otherwise, you just get the random destruction of ships that seems to generate so many tears on these forums. If you make it difficult or impossible to select targets because you cannot tackle them at all, piracy will either stop completely, or degenerate into just shooting the next guy that comes along turning who gets selected into more of a lottery rather one that punishes the most reckless of overloaded haulers.

But game design questions aside, your bigger problem in getting your idea implemented has more to do with the practicalities of software development. Freighter ganking makes up a tiny fraction of the content in this game so CCP is not going to devote the effort to massively rewrite the arcane physics mechanics of the game just to make a few whiny carebears a little safer. CCP prefers to make lazy changes, and changes that are consistent across as much of the game as possible. They are not going to write a special warp mechanic just for highsec bumpers, and they are going to do as little as possible, both to maximize the use of developer time, and to minimize the risk of breaking something else.

Given that warp mechanics currently work this way - that applying a point cancels the warp attempt immediately - it seems most likely things will remain this way and there will be no special exception or rewrite of such fundamental core code of this game so that no longer works in the case of highsec criminals. Most likely, CCP just wants to force tacklers in highsec to commit more to the exercise and prevent a single competent bumper from leisurely locking down another ship for hours on end at no cost.

Personally, I think highsec mechanics are do for complete revamp as the situation is already beyond absurd. It is pretty much a complete failure of game design when it takes almost all the piratical minded players left in the game to band together into a single group (or two) to attack an undefended hauler in highsec. Such a design makes being attacked so rare that the risk is best discounted, so when it does happen players are not only upset, but completely outclassed by the few dozen players on the attacking side that are required to meet the minimum DPS, so no meaningful conflict can take place.

I am not sure what the remedy is, but I am sure it is not to make freighters even more immune to attack in highsec with a hard 3 minute limit with no other changes. Certainly that is not "balance" like you claim, just another straight-out nerf to piracy.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#43 - 2016-10-06 11:52:56 UTC
I think it would be reasonable to create a freighter cloak. It would be different than normal cloaking in that there would be no proximity uncloaking ability. Once cloaked a freighter would stay that way until its pilot turned the cloak off. The drawback would be that the freighter can't move at all while cloaked.
Drammie Askold
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#44 - 2016-10-06 17:48:36 UTC
I'm going to ask a really noobish question now; can other ships, the OP's friends perhaps, bump the bumpers to give the freighter time to warp?

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#45 - 2016-10-06 19:05:53 UTC
Drammie Askold wrote:
I'm going to ask a really noobish question now; can other ships, the OP's friends perhaps, bump the bumpers to give the freighter time to warp?

Absolutely :)

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Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#46 - 2016-10-07 02:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anne Dieu-le-veut
What was anti-ganking doing during this 3 hour bump, besides sitting and watching impotently while crying in anti-ganking channel? I saw a small fleet of y'all sitting around the freighter waiting to whore in on Concord KMs. Maybe you could have either counter-bumped the Mach or ganked it.

Why in the world would they make your changes? Why should high sec bump targets get special treatment?
Chapo Muerte
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#47 - 2016-10-10 01:55:08 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
What was anti-ganking doing during this 3 hour bump


they were failing non-stop daily and readying forum posts/reddit posts demanding changes from CCP.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#48 - 2016-10-10 16:12:49 UTC
pajedas wrote:

1) I hate to agree with Tora Bushido but I do. Gank it or GTFO.

2) Dom Arkaral, you have no clue so STFU.

3) Chapo Muerte AKA: loyalanon, were you not permanently banned from playing Eve Online? (reported)


And for the rest of you out there...you cannot anti-bump a bumping Machariel, no matter what these turds say.

OP is correct, bumping is a broken mechanic and needs to be fixed. A freighter pilot needs an option, besides losing his ship. Don't say ransom either, I've seen countless pilots pay a ransom only to be ganked after all. Does anyone expect someone who participates in this style of game play to have honor?

Actually I have had a certain well known bumper do me a solid and anti bump my freighter back to a gate for reasons before which let me web it on the other side. it can be done it just requires skill

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pajedas
Doomheim
#49 - 2016-10-10 16:23:16 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Actually I have had a certain well known bumper do me a solid and anti bump my freighter back to a gate for reasons before which let me web it on the other side. it can be done it just requires skill

You mistook what I said. In rare isolated instances you might be able to align/bump the freighter into warp. Of course with speed being a factor it's not as simple as, "point and shoot".

If anyone is arguing that a player (be they AFK or at their keyboard) should subjected to 23 hours of bumping...you're out of your mind!

*Being targeted should not negate a safe log off.

A Builder Or a Wrecker

As I watched them tear a building down
A gang of men in a busy town
With a ho-heave-ho, and a lusty yell
They swung a beam and the side wall fell

I asked the foreman, “Are these men skilled,
And the men you’d hire if you wanted to build?”
He gave a laugh and said, “No, indeed,
Just common labor is all I need.”

“I can easily wreck in a day or two,
What builders have taken years to do.”
And I thought to myself, as I went my way
Which of these roles have I tried to play'

Am I a builder who works with care,
Measuring life by rule and square?
Am I shaping my work to a well-made plan
Patiently doing the best I can'

Or am I a wrecker who walks to town
Content with the labor of tearing down?
“O Lord let my life and my labors be
That which will build for eternity!”

Author Charles Franklin Benvegar

🐇
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#50 - 2016-10-10 19:02:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Galaxy Duck
3 mins just isn't enough, seems like some of these Amarr systems take 3 mins just to traverse...

10 minute timer, totally reasonable, can't argue with it.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#51 - 2016-10-10 19:22:10 UTC
35. Posting of chat logs outside the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

The posting of chat logs between player parties is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel where they can be posted as part of stories in the Pirate Story Thread.

bye!! :D

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

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Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#52 - 2016-10-10 20:09:43 UTC
Lol, he's got a cool bounty though!

315 4 CSM!
pajedas
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-10-10 20:21:32 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Lol, he's got a cool bounty though!

315 4 CSM!

You're scraping the bottom of the lame barrel.

Bounty placed on you
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2016.10.10 18:33

Galaxy Duck placed 894,895 ISK in bounty on your head.

🐇
Chapo Muerte
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#54 - 2016-10-10 20:37:01 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:


10 minute timer, totally reasonable, can't argue with it.


but that conflicts with the AG narrative that ganking/bumping is cyberbullying
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-10-11 10:12:38 UTC
Well this thread went all to hell...oh who am I kidding, they always do.

Some days, I log onto the forums, stare at it and wonder why I bother...
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#56 - 2016-10-11 11:54:47 UTC
Morgan Agrivar wrote:
Well this thread went all to hell...oh who am I kidding, they always do.

Some days, I log onto the forums, stare at it and wonder why I bother...

Because, like most of the C&P crowd, you like salt and tears :P

Btw Pajedas, still waiting for the link to the thread where CODE. asked CCP to buff wreck hp Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

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ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#57 - 2016-10-11 13:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
Removed off topic posts and those quoting them. Edited a post with chat logs. Chat logs are only permitted in the Pirate story thread and only under certain conditions.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Niten Doraku
Doomheim
#58 - 2016-10-11 22:32:54 UTC

Bumping is ridiculously easy and OP. I say five minutes is more than adequate.

"A person is a person no matter how small."
~Horton~

"A griefer is a griefer no matter how lame."
~Niten~

I infiltrated c0d3 and what I saw was inauspicious.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#59 - 2016-10-11 23:08:26 UTC
Niten Doraku wrote:

Bumping is ridiculously easy and OP. I say five minutes is more than adequate.

"A person is a person no matter how small."
~Horton~

"A griefer is a griefer no matter how lame."
~Niten~


Funny,
Each time you tried to bump my immobile Loki, you failed miserably XD
Must have been because it was too easy eh?
Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

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Niten Doraku
Doomheim
#60 - 2016-10-12 03:46:12 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Niten Doraku wrote:

Bumping is ridiculously easy and OP. I say five minutes is more than adequate.

"A person is a person no matter how small."
~Horton~

"A griefer is a griefer no matter how lame."
~Niten~


Funny,
Each time you tried to bump my immobile Loki, you failed miserably XD
Must have been because it was too easy eh?
Lol

Do you really want to go there Donna? You had your little t3 wedged in that un-dock so far and so tightly, I'm pretty sure quarks couldn't have gotten between you and the station.

Kind of reminds me of someone with acrophobia being forced out onto the ledge of a skyscraper, digging their nails into the concrete...

I infiltrated c0d3 and what I saw was inauspicious.