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Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

Author
Solania Aurae
Garoun Investment Bank
#1 - 2012-01-18 02:24:23 UTC
Now it seems CCP might be looking into Command Ship roles, I was curious to see what more experienced players believe CCP will do to boost them?

I only suggest Caldari in the title, as it would be a mere two month investment to get both the Vulture & Nighthawk running nicely for me.

I've been lamenting over it many months now, but decided to focus on my Tengu and it's support skills before I took a few months off from the game. This news from the CSM Minutes has got me excited, in the belief that the Nighthawk might become more viable in PvP, rather then just a mission ship. Though, I certainly wouldn't be disappointed if they simply boosted it for that very purpose.

All the responses I get from most Vulture pilots is that they typically ignore the Hybrid bonus and fit Missile Launchers anyway. This is obviously a Warfare Link ship primarily, but some crazy part of me really would love to take advantage of that crazy tank and use it for a direct hybrid/support combat role. Did the hybrid buff change anything in regards to the performance of the ship?

Just curious of everyone's thoughts. I'm hoping that if anything, they'll do a little more then just nerf the T3 Warfare Subsystem and switch the 3% boost for 5% boost for the Vulture and call it a day, while assuming that taking away the Resistance bonus and Kinetic bonus from the Drake would make people flock to the Nighthawk.

: /
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#2 - 2012-01-18 02:28:14 UTC
The cone of uncertainty is too wide to make any realistic guesses. I'd say that if their intention is that the CS class of ship becomes reasonable then its a very good idea to train them. Look at the proposed AF boost - its going to create some of the most OP ships the game has ever seen.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Goose99
#3 - 2012-01-18 02:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Proposed AFs aren't OP, not by a long shot. It's supposed to be beefier than the interceptors that used to be flown in AF role for all situations...Roll
Properly fitted canes, among other things, will still swallow them whole upon catching them.

And Caldari CS suck. Train Winmatar for Slepneir/Claymore ftw.Cool

As far as racial links go, Winmatar is more useful. And for pure boosting, t3 gives more.
Jude Lloyd
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-01-18 02:40:03 UTC
New Hawk! \o/

I'm back!

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#5 - 2012-01-18 02:40:31 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Properly fitted canes, among other things, will still swallow them whole upon catching them.


Oh Really

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Hoskoal Ricks
#6 - 2012-01-18 02:42:41 UTC
I don't think any linked command ship is worth flying these days due to t3's. The nighthawk also has the bothersome issue of lacking grid.

Although I must mention that the NH is probably the cheapest t2 gurista plexing ship isk can buy if you don't want to use an ishtar.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#7 - 2012-01-18 02:47:52 UTC
Solania Aurae wrote:
while assuming that taking away the Resistance bonus and Kinetic bonus from the Drake would make people flock to the Nighthawk.
/

Dunno, right the reverse, actually. What's the fun in flying OP ships like current Drake? And after they fix it so it becomes less overtanked I for one might jump into one myself. Sounds like a lot of joy.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.

Goose99
#8 - 2012-01-18 02:51:41 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Solania Aurae wrote:
while assuming that taking away the Resistance bonus and Kinetic bonus from the Drake would make people flock to the Nighthawk.
/

Dunno, right the reverse, actually. What's the fun in flying OP ships like current Drake? And after they fix it so it becomes less overtanked I for one might jump into one myself. Sounds like a lot of joy.


Yeah right, as if its buffer isn't still big without 5% resistance. With the faster missile flying further, now with rop bonus, drakes will be blobier than ever.Lol
Hoskoal Ricks
#9 - 2012-01-18 03:03:55 UTC
All this drake "nerf," is going to do is force people to reconsider their budget wormhole ship selection.
Shukuzen Kiraa
F4G Wild Weasel
#10 - 2012-01-18 15:04:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Shukuzen Kiraa
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Properly fitted canes, among other things, will still swallow them whole upon catching them.


Oh Really

-Liang



Video is unwatchable due to poor music selection.

OT: I thought they were training for already, the Nighthawk is pretty great right now...minus the horrid powergrid.
Lorginir
#11 - 2012-01-18 15:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lorginir
Quote:
Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

No, they don't. With incoming drake nerf the only Caldari ship worth training is tengu.

Licensed 07.06.2010 R.I.P 10.06.2012 nevermore.

SpaceSquirrels
#12 - 2012-01-18 16:25:56 UTC
I dunno make combat boosting on grid only...bam CS t3 no longer better. Or make it so boosting on grid gives better bonuses.
stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-01-18 16:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Lorginir wrote:
Quote:
Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

No, they don't. With incoming drake nerf the only Caldari ship worth training is tengu.


Nah, what will probably happen is that the "Ye Olde 5% Kinetic Damage Bonus" code is shared between the Drake, Tengu, Nighthawk, etc., so when CCP changes the Drake's kinetic bonus it to a RoF bonus, *all* of the kinetic damage bonus ships will get the RoF bonus...

And since (AFAIK) there are no double RoF bonii for a ship, then it means that the RoF bonus code was only designed to handle a single RoF bonus, so the Tengu will suddenly get a 5% RoF bonus on top of its 7.5% RoF bonus for a total of a 62.5% RoF bonus...

Tengu:
current: 6 launches / (1 - (.075*5)) = 9.6 effective launchers
post "drake" change: 6 launchers / (1 -(.05*5+.075*5)) = 16 effective launchers

So, the only Caldari ship worth training would be the Tengu.


Or could I be underestimating CCP's coding and testing capabilities.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Lili Lu
#14 - 2012-01-18 19:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Lorginir wrote:
Quote:
Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

No, they don't. With incoming drake nerf the only Caldari ship worth training is tengu.

You appear to have missed the Ytterbium post in the general discussion long drake thread. Commands will be agetting a rightful buff.

So, in response to the op, yes I would say commands such as the Nighthawk are worth training. I already have two cahracters that fly it. It is worth it in its present form anyway (for pve) as a slight improvement over a Drake.

These ships will only get better for pvp. The reign of the tier 2 BC is coming to an end most likely. And, tier 2 BCs will probably still be used, just that they won't be punching above their weight. This is good for the game. Having goals that are not easy to reach is what this game has been about and what makes it great.

Caldari centric players that viewed the game as Drake then Tengu must be incredibly bored. In the future you will still be able to do that but it appears those two ships won't do everything. Additionally, every character should be training two races anyway.

edit- as for commands for running links, that is your primary purpose. If you are wanting to inflict damage on a Vulture frankly you are missing the point. I have flown Damnation and Claymore in fleet battles. Basically you are there for the links, and as such you need to have the leadership skills and survivability. I ended up dual proping my damnation and 2 1600 plates which didn't leave much grid left. So in went small guns to kill drones or tacklers. Same general idea with a Claymore. So the same would apply with a Vulture. as beefy a tank as possible and ability to survive. The links must flow.

If you want to enjoy the new hybrid gunnery fly a damage dealer, Rokh, Naga, or a Gallente ship. Or, quite possibly the new changes may make the Ferox viable.
Hoskoal Ricks
#15 - 2012-01-18 19:49:47 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Additionally, every character should be training two races anyway.


Does flying a rokh count as cross training? Ugh
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#16 - 2012-01-18 19:56:37 UTC
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Properly fitted canes, among other things, will still swallow them whole upon catching them.


Oh Really

-Liang



Video is unwatchable due to poor music selection.

OT: I thought they were training for already, the Nighthawk is pretty great right now...minus the horrid powergrid.


I know I know if it isn't dubstep or techno you aren't allowed to put it in a PVP video these days. Roll

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Solania Aurae
Garoun Investment Bank
#17 - 2012-01-18 20:02:56 UTC
Quote:
Video is unwatchable due to poor music selection.


I felt the music was refreshingly normal.

:/
Osvaldr Adridian
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-01-18 21:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Osvaldr Adridian
Liang Nuren wrote:
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Properly fitted canes, among other things, will still swallow them whole upon catching them.


Oh Really

-Liang



Video is unwatchable due to poor music selection.

OT: I thought they were training for already, the Nighthawk is pretty great right now...minus the horrid powergrid.


I know I know if it isn't dubstep or techno you aren't allowed to put it in a PVP video these days. Roll

-Liang



Kil2 says otherwise and his selection isn't as dreadful Blink

http://i.imgur.com/wGQin.jpg

The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#19 - 2012-01-19 00:00:41 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Lorginir wrote:
Quote:
Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

No, they don't. With incoming drake nerf the only Caldari ship worth training is tengu.


Nah, what will probably happen is that the "Ye Olde 5% Kinetic Damage Bonus" code is shared between the Drake, Tengu, Nighthawk, etc., so when CCP changes the Drake's kinetic bonus it to a RoF bonus, *all* of the kinetic damage bonus ships will get the RoF bonus...

And since (AFAIK) there are no double RoF bonii for a ship, then it means that the RoF bonus code was only designed to handle a single RoF bonus, so the Tengu will suddenly get a 5% RoF bonus on top of its 7.5% RoF bonus for a total of a 62.5% RoF bonus...

Tengu:
current: 6 launches / (1 - (.075*5)) = 9.6 effective launchers
post "drake" change: 6 launchers / (1 -(.05*5+.075*5)) = 16 effective launchers

So, the only Caldari ship worth training would be the Tengu.


Or could I be underestimating CCP's coding and testing capabilities.


The Tengu got actually 12 affective launchers if you take the kinetic bonus into account. 1100 DPS with selectable damage types @ 100km or going balls deep into a gank contest with a blaster mega in a HAM fitting in a cruiser with a extreme good tank, what could go wrong? What?

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Berendas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-01-19 00:50:12 UTC
Lorginir wrote:
Quote:
Caldari Command Ships: Worth training into now?

No, they don't. With incoming drake nerf the only Caldari ship worth training is tengu.


You are so wrong that I almost pity you.
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