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Dev blog: Mining Foreman Revolution

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-10-04 18:22:39 UTC
Basil Vulpine wrote:
This isn't quite the right thread for this I suspect, please move it if needed.

All of the new command burst ammo requirements use Heavy Water.

Everybody I've spoken to already has a shortage of HW and an abundance of LO, a situation that has been true for years. Even before Phoebe I accumulated 16m units of excess LO in Delve and we had a fair few JBs seeing use then. This is going to be accentuated even further by increasing the HW consumption on the Industrial cores.

Has somebody done a proper analysis of production vs consumption of LO and HW and whether there are stockpiles generally accumulating? I suggest that using LO for the command burst ammo may be a better choice.


I can confirm this; as an ice purchaser in my nullsec home, I get considerably more liquid ozone than heavy water.

Very likely, they're looking at Jita prices to consider the value of items. However, liquid ozone and heavy water are very large at 0.4 m^3 per unit. As such, it's very difficult to move large quantities of these, so their prices tend to reflect their environment.

The reason Heavy Water is so much cheaper than Liquid Ozone in Jita is because of the composition of highsec ice. Highsec ice contains roughly twice as much Heavy Water than Liquid Ozone; thus, the price is much lower. However, in nullsec, things are different. Ice in nullsec contains more liquid ozone than heavy water. Ice belts in nullsec also contain twice as much Dark Glitter (primary source of LO3) than Glare Crust (primary HW source.) Combine this with the immovability of liquid ozone and heavy water and you end up with liquid ozone being the dross of an ice field, and heavy water being rare and useful enough to be called "holy water" by some in my organization. The addition of T2 industrial core siege and the increased heavy water requirement only exacerbates this.

Please, consider increasing Liquid Ozone usage.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#22 - 2016-10-04 18:23:28 UTC
They finally gave Tactical Shield Manipulation V a use! (Boooo)
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2016-10-04 18:31:19 UTC
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, the various mining foreman links are becoming command burst modules that require an ammo charge to obtain the area affect bonus? If so, then it seems in the past the hindering factor was time spent training the skills for the best results. But now, the hindering factor will be the ammo. And instead of limiting your abilities to your group, anyone 'caught" in the burst affect can mine right in your area free of charge.

I'll have to reread this again.
Grookshank
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-10-04 18:33:03 UTC
Quote:
We are interested in hearing what the community thinks about cyno restrictions for ships affected by the P.A.N.I.C. module. We are currently leaning towards allowing cyno lighting and watching closely to see if this causes problems. If needed, we can change the effect to prevent cyno lighting and prevent ships with an active cyno from receiving the P.A.N.I.C. effect.

This is a bad idea. An invulnerable cyno...
Anthar Thebess
#25 - 2016-10-04 18:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
I don't see information that ship bay on rorqual is only for mining ships.
Have this been changed?
This mining rorqual fleets in dead end systems - T1 hulls will be so cheap again !
Who will try to kill a 8 rorquals acting capable of fax level reps and dealing 1-2k dps.

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Valterra Craven
#26 - 2016-10-04 18:43:28 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Check out the specific feedback threads for the Porpoise, Orca, and Rorqual. This thread will be the general purpose feedback thread for everything that doesn't fit into the others.

Thanks in advance for all your constructive feedback!



Fozzie, could you also look into the Noctis for November?

It really needs a full balance pass. Right now its really expensive and easy to kill in high sec and tanking it is almost impossible.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#27 - 2016-10-04 18:44:42 UTC
just food for thought: how about instead of making the ships 100% invulnerable. make it that any DPS below a certain level is ignored. only when you hit the cap you start dealing dmg. so if needed you can DD a rorqual with cyno off the field.
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-10-04 18:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Moved to rorq thread.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#29 - 2016-10-04 18:45:53 UTC
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, the various mining foreman links are becoming command burst modules that require an ammo charge to obtain the area affect bonus? If so, then it seems in the past the hindering factor was time spent training the skills for the best results. But now, the hindering factor will be the ammo. And instead of limiting your abilities to your group, anyone 'caught" in the burst affect can mine right in your area free of charge.

I'll have to reread this again.

They have to be in your fleet. Bystanders in the area do not get the boost.

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Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#30 - 2016-10-04 18:46:53 UTC
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, the various mining foreman links are becoming command burst modules that require an ammo charge to obtain the area affect bonus? If so, then it seems in the past the hindering factor was time spent training the skills for the best results. But now, the hindering factor will be the ammo. And instead of limiting your abilities to your group, anyone 'caught" in the burst affect can mine right in your area free of charge.

I'll have to reread this again.


Fleet boosts
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#31 - 2016-10-04 18:47:41 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Fozzie, could you also look into the Noctis for November?

It really needs a full balance pass. Right now its really expensive and easy to kill in high sec and tanking it is almost impossible.


a noctis needs tank? o.O
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#32 - 2016-10-04 18:48:02 UTC
ripper1 Tivianne wrote:
ShockedShockedShocked A 1000 unit's of heavy water a cycle!!!!OopsEvilEvil

Not liking these change's! Small corp's will find this hard to cope with, let alone the price of the rorqual..UghShockedShocked

Did you miss the part about mining a small moon in one cycle?
Valterra Craven
#33 - 2016-10-04 18:48:23 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Fozzie, could you also look into the Noctis for November?

It really needs a full balance pass. Right now its really expensive and easy to kill in high sec and tanking it is almost impossible.


a noctis needs tank? o.O



Yeah, its become a ganking target. At least on barges you can fit tank.
Covering YrBack
Watch your six
Ferrata Victrix
#34 - 2016-10-04 18:49:42 UTC
Assuming that barges under rorqual will mine 34% faster but 15% less (19% effective ore yeld in total) with a great threat to rorqual in industrial core there are no things to be happy about.
Plus hulk ore cycle will be 44 sec which is very big stress for pilots running several windows.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#35 - 2016-10-04 18:58:37 UTC
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
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#36 - 2016-10-04 18:59:05 UTC
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:
Unless I am reading this incorrectly, the various mining foreman links are becoming command burst modules that require an ammo charge to obtain the area affect bonus? If so, then it seems in the past the hindering factor was time spent training the skills for the best results. But now, the hindering factor will be the ammo. And instead of limiting your abilities to your group, anyone 'caught" in the burst affect can mine right in your area free of charge.

I'll have to reread this again.



5 hours worth of charges without a reload.

That's 3m3 of charges.

and 500 charges will cost on the ballpark of a quarter million to make. (5m3 of charges)

And it's everyone, in your range, and _also_ in your fleet. (your position in the fleet is now unimportant)

Woo! CSM XI!

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Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2016-10-04 19:00:23 UTC
Please Increase heavy water in nullsec ice. reduce ozone

Please please please
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2016-10-04 19:00:32 UTC
Vincent Athena and Obil Que - thank you for the clarification since initially I glossed over it.

Looking into these command burst modules, it seems silly to me. Your skill training "taught" you the knowledge to bestow onto others - thus the various bonuses offered in a leadership role. But now your training appears to offer how to fire a module that magically offers knowledge for a brief time (as long as you have ammo to continue firing off knowledge). If CCP wanted to limit the distance, then make the old links have a range limitation and not this "firing of magic knowledge bullets" to fleet members.

"I'm out of ammo, so I guess I forgot how to lead a mining expedition."
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#39 - 2016-10-04 19:01:58 UTC
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:
Vincent Athena and Obil Que - thank you for the clarification since initially I glossed over it.

Looking into these command burst modules, it seems silly to me. Your skill training "taught" you the knowledge to bestow onto others - thus the various bonuses offered in a leadership role. But now your training appears to offer how to fire a module that magically offers knowledge for a brief time (as long as you have ammo to continue firing off knowledge). If CCP wanted to limit the distance, then make the old links have a range limitation and not this "firing of magic knowledge bullets" to fleet members.

"I'm out of ammo, so I guess I forgot how to lead a mining expedition."


The system used to improve the mining operations runs on that fuel. Your knowledge how to operate that system is separate from that.
AddleVie
Sentinel Event
Hatakani Trade Winds Combine
#40 - 2016-10-04 19:06:26 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Fozzie, could you also look into the Noctis for November?

It really needs a full balance pass. Right now its really expensive and easy to kill in high sec and tanking it is almost impossible.


a noctis needs tank? o.O



Yeah, its become a ganking target. At least on barges you can fit tank.



I'll second that...

it'd be great if you could invite a friend along in a noctis so they could see the action while salvaging for you. If it was able to tank damage from a lvl4 mission then it would be a great way for beginners to make isk while meeting new people.

as it is, I just let most of the loot sit there because it's more efficient isk per hour to just move to the next mission and kill npc's for the bounties instead of waiting for the mobile tractor to haul in the wrecks.