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Citadels: Dispersing the Market Hubs
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Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#21 - 2016-09-27 13:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Rivr Luzade wrote:
They are killing the market, not dispersing it. In particular in Null sec but also Low sec, most markets will simply vanish once outposts are gone and taxes in NPC stations increased to an unhealthy level.

I seed some items in NPC nullsec, and brokers fee is not a problem at all. Demand is, and it just cannot grow organically. Because when some traffic emerges, it is immediately moderated by camps. The only possible option is trading in alliance home systems. Alliances form around strong leaders and good fleetcoms that choose to be independent, rather than be a part of some bigger alliance. It means that nullsec economy is driven by political landscape, and not much else affects it.

EDIT: Except for light-weight items like PLEX and skill injectors. If those were traded locally, it would give traders enough incentive to open shops next door. But I'm not sure, if those shops would tend to evolve into mini-hubs, or it's just all in my head.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#22 - 2016-09-28 08:27:10 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
I seed some items in NPC nullsec, and brokers fee is not a problem at all. Demand is, and it just cannot grow organically.

They are not yet. Remember that CCP will increase them further with one of the coming releases.

You can't have a Fortizar in Curse or Stain, let alone Syndicate or Great Wildlands, if you are not part of a big group. You will just get stomped into the ground. once people notice you. And even if you manged to get one up and running publicly, the fairly low demand (even worse in Sov Null) will make your profits vanish due to the horrendous fuel cost. I've seen that happening on Deklein already. A couple of corps in my alliance put up 4 Fortizars and market services. 2 markets were shut down shortly after, others are heavily subsidized by the corps' other incomes. Personally, I produce a small variety of things in Dek that others and I need for my ratting. Right now, I can put that stuff up on the market in my or a closeby outpost. That won't be possible in the mid-term future because the closest Fortizar that was still having a market running was 10 jumps away and staging is 20 jumps from my preferred area of residence. And this is for a rather big alliance. Imagine smaller groups, or NPC Null sec with the myriad of small groups that cannot allow other groups to dock in their staging citadel.

Citadel market with all the increasing taxes to NPC stations are just crap, even just a couple of jumps away from the Big 4 Hubs.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#23 - 2016-10-03 19:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Skia Aumer
Meanwhile, the story is unfolding. Here is Lenny discussing further plans on Reddit.
Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?

Addon:
Looks like reddit has a consensus regarding the purpose of Lenny's plan, properly outlined in Gevlon's blog, The citadels of eternal peace.
Careby
#24 - 2016-10-04 14:51:31 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
...Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?...


I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. I have found four structures so far:


Aunenen - Waypoint Station - Keepstar with market service
Auner - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Ignoitton - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Vaajaita - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with no market

All four are owned by corporation New Eden Trading Company HQ (WTO1), Alliance New Eden Trading Company (WTO). As I understand it, the corp and alliance are run by alts of Chribba.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-10-04 15:06:59 UTC
I'm pretty confident the plan of decentralized market hubs will not unfold as expected. However the planned public Titan bridge network has real potential.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#26 - 2016-10-04 19:41:47 UTC
Careby wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
...Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?...


I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. I have found four structures so far:


Aunenen - Waypoint Station - Keepstar with market service
Auner - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Ignoitton - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Vaajaita - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with no market

All four are owned by corporation New Eden Trading Company HQ (WTO1), Alliance New Eden Trading Company (WTO). As I understand it, the corp and alliance are run by alts of Chribba.

I can confirm that the listed Citadels are indeed held by my alt.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
goodlady Smith
TheCrazy88s
#27 - 2016-10-04 23:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: goodlady Smith
Maybe a separate spin is the influence - if you own the market should people attack your assets you - simply close the market to them making their war difficult. It's like HS ganking your opponents haulers stopping them from resupplying

Or it drives up competition and the next war is based on trade hubs where IWI / Lenny is more established and he gets to sell off all his excess stock =D

Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums WTS... Smiles
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-10-05 17:04:51 UTC
Some thoughts ...

... what is the consequence and desire of trade agreements, globalization and economic integration between nations in RL? Peace!

The interaction of players and their organisations in New Eden do have similarities to RL because the actors are the same, humans. So what would happen if you put trade mechanics into the hands of players?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#29 - 2016-10-05 17:36:07 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Some thoughts ...

... what is the consequence and desire of trade agreements, globalization and economic integration between nations in RL? Peace!

The interaction of players and their organisations in New Eden do have similarities to RL because the actors are the same, humans. So what would happen if you put trade mechanics into the hands of players?

A new Cold War? Like the one starting IRL right now?

The goals of real-life WTO and similar organizations have nothing to do with peace, unfortunately. They are the tools of power projection of rich minority intended to establish their rules throughout the planet. Turning back to EVE, this might be the same goal, who knows. The big difference is that rich people of EVE as of now have very little influence. They just dont have the tools the real world provides: EVE does not have a market for capital (not capital ship, but rather the 'capitalist' capital). No banking, no shares, no stock exchange, nothing.

So whatever Lenny is doing, it is an interesting thing, cause he's trying to make his sizable capital work.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#30 - 2016-10-05 17:50:25 UTC
Thanks to Rhivre for another quality article.
Also, we have an economic report for September, with a new interesting graph. It gives us some firm numbers regarding the market fees, and they are indeed quite substantial: almost a trillion goes to citadel owners per month. And there is 10x as much still payed to NPC. Something worth investing in, I suppose? ;-)
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#31 - 2016-10-12 16:09:13 UTC
IWI is shut down for RMT.
Things are getting more interesting. Wonder if it affects Lenny's network.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#32 - 2016-10-13 17:20:55 UTC
Lenny is banned.
End of story.

Or is it?
Maybe Chribba will come up with some announcement.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#33 - 2016-10-13 18:01:58 UTC
Banned with a pending investigation. He might get his account back, but it sounds like the isk is gone no matter what happens.
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-10-13 23:53:01 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Banned with a pending investigation. He might get his account back, but it sounds like the isk is gone no matter what happens.



How much isk we talking about?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#35 - 2016-10-14 01:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Tipa Riot wrote:
I'm pretty confident the plan of decentralized market hubs will not unfold as expected. However the planned public Titan bridge network has real potential.

This is my expectation, assuming this is going ahead after the recent IWI scandal (nice company you are keeping btw Chribba).

I just cannot understand where the demand is supposed to come from. It sounds to me like the mental gymnastics that every lowsec startup goes through, only at a much larger scale. The end result is always the same: lowsec hubs are really difficult to make sustainable because they have to compete with Jita in terms of broad item availability. Unless EVERYTHING is available in the hub at Jita prices I am just going to Jita.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#36 - 2016-10-14 07:03:37 UTC
Zappity wrote:
nice company you are keeping btw Chribba

Ow... don't hate on Chribba. He's a neutral party. He's available to everyone, which includes Lenny. He's also done more good to the market in EVE than pretty much anyone else. What he doesn't do is police whether a scheme he is securing is viable, moral or profitable... because if he did he would have to reduce the availability and breadth of his service and we would all suffer.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#37 - 2016-10-14 13:07:21 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:


How much isk we talking about?


I don't remember the timestamp in the Talking in Stations episode from yesterday, but Eep said around 29T

https://soundcloud.com/mt-erall/sets/talking-in-stations
Illindar Tyrannus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-11-22 02:26:03 UTC
Careby wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
...Does anyone have information about any citadels anchored as a part of this initiative? Which regions are they in? What alliance banners do they use?...


I'm sure more information will be forthcoming. I have found four structures so far:


Aunenen - Waypoint Station - Keepstar with market service
Auner - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Ignoitton - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with market service
Vaajaita - Waypoint Station - Fortizar with no market

All four are owned by corporation New Eden Trading Company HQ (WTO1), Alliance New Eden Trading Company (WTO). As I understand it, the corp and alliance are run by alts of Chribba.


Does the stuff you'd put on sale in there show up within those stations, and even than while I see corp stations on overview no others show up.
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