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Oath of Fealty

Author
Arrendis
TK Corp
#61 - 2016-09-30 13:13:33 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
I, Qvar of the house Dar Zanar... Trust that Catiz I will continue to be a valued ally of our king Garkeh. She has my best wishes as long as the Empire and our Kingdom continue this prosperous relationship that Catiz helped construct.


Isn't Garkeh Khanid scheduled to kill himself today? That'll make being an ally... difficult.
Letizzia Omanid
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2016-09-30 15:04:57 UTC
I, Letizzia Omanid, do swear fealty to the Empire and its divinely anointed Empress, Catiz I.

May her reign be long and blessed.
Matar Ronin
#63 - 2016-09-30 17:27:44 UTC
The ritual deaths of the others who sought the throne of skulls. Indeed the best part of this entire public performance. Does anyone know if there is going to be coverage by the press?

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2016-09-30 18:37:56 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
The ritual deaths of the others who sought the throne of skulls. Indeed the best part of this entire public performance. Does anyone know if there is going to be coverage by the press?


No. This ritual is sacred to the Amarr and they will very unlikely turn it into some kind of media spectacle.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Laerise
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#65 - 2016-09-30 22:01:36 UTC
I, Laerise Fierach, swear fealty to the Empire and its legally anointed Empress, Catiz I, chosen by God.
Garion Avarr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2016-10-01 05:41:45 UTC
I, Garion Avarr, swear fealty to the Empire and its legally anointed Empress, Catiz I.



Long may she live!
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#67 - 2016-10-01 13:54:23 UTC
I, Ashlar Vellum, swear fealty to the Empire and its new ruler set by the Divine.
May the Empire prosper under new guidance.
Loki Vaako
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2016-10-03 09:55:23 UTC
I, Loki Vaako, swear fealty to the Empire and its legally anointed Empress, Catiz I

May her reign be blessed and enlightened.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#69 - 2016-10-03 12:07:48 UTC
I always thought the oath of fealty was sworn to an House Heir of the Privy Council or one of the Holders sworn to them, and it's the Heirs who swear their submission to the Empress on behalf of their vassals.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Louella Dougans
Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
#70 - 2016-10-03 17:36:15 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I always thought the oath of fealty was sworn to an House Heir of the Privy Council or one of the Holders sworn to them, and it's the Heirs who swear their submission to the Empress on behalf of their vassals.


That's more of the historical hierarchical structure of fealty. Vassals of vassals of vassals of vassals of one of the Heir Families.

It is much more of a recent phenomenon, to swear fealty directly to the Emperor/Empress.

In the early days of mass capsule accessibility, it was the case that traditional aligned corporations which swore allegiance to a particular House, went to war against corporations which swore direct allegiance to the Emperor, or rather, to the Empire itself.

The Praetorians are notable, for being one of the first, if not the first, to declare allegiance to the Empire, rather than to a Heir Family.

Be a Space Nun, it is fun. \o/

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#71 - 2016-10-03 23:02:15 UTC
This is indeed quite true.

Recognizing the legal and social detachment capsuleers are subject to, we Praetorians feel it more appropriate to swear loyalty to the concepts of God, Empire, and Emperor rather than liege lords and ladies that cannot hold us accountable for anything. Instead we swear fealty to the core principles of Amarr and hold one another accountable.

It also ensures that our loyalties will not be divided should conflicts of interest arise. The Royal Houses have their own competitions and squabbles that ought not detract from a Praetorian's duty.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#72 - 2016-10-04 02:58:02 UTC
Ah, okay, so intended to reflect the Imperial Guard/Navy tradition of direct personal submission to the Imperial Throne and carrying out Her Will.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Arrendis
TK Corp
#73 - 2016-10-04 04:55:04 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
This is indeed quite true.

Recognizing the legal and social detachment capsuleers are subject to, we Praetorians feel it more appropriate to swear loyalty to the concepts of God, Empire, and Emperor rather than liege lords and ladies that cannot hold us accountable for anything. Instead we swear fealty to the core principles of Amarr and hold one another accountable.

It also ensures that our loyalties will not be divided should conflicts of interest arise. The Royal Houses have their own competitions and squabbles that ought not detract from a Praetorian's duty.


Which raises an interesting question in your case, Aldrith: You are, after all, the Lord Consort of a Sarum Holder. Does that present a potential conflict of interest, and if so, how do you balance it? I know, I know, you don't trust me to not have an agenda here, but I promise, I'm actually curious about this. The Empire's fealty system is one of those things that seems fairly straightforward, but I suspect it quickly becomes exceedingly Byzantine in very short order.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#74 - 2016-10-04 05:42:43 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
This is indeed quite true.

Recognizing the legal and social detachment capsuleers are subject to, we Praetorians feel it more appropriate to swear loyalty to the concepts of God, Empire, and Emperor rather than liege lords and ladies that cannot hold us accountable for anything. Instead we swear fealty to the core principles of Amarr and hold one another accountable.

It also ensures that our loyalties will not be divided should conflicts of interest arise. The Royal Houses have their own competitions and squabbles that ought not detract from a Praetorian's duty.


Which raises an interesting question in your case, Aldrith: You are, after all, the Lord Consort of a Sarum Holder. Does that present a potential conflict of interest, and if so, how do you balance it? I know, I know, you don't trust me to not have an agenda here, but I promise, I'm actually curious about this. The Empire's fealty system is one of those things that seems fairly straightforward, but I suspect it quickly becomes exceedingly Byzantine in very short order.


I think Aldrith and Mitara just glare angrily at each other and flick their hair over their shoulders, until one of them backs down.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#75 - 2016-10-04 05:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Arrendis wrote:
Which raises an interesting question in your case, Aldrith: You are, after all, the Lord Consort of a Sarum Holder. Does that present a potential conflict of interest, and if so, how do you balance it? I know, I know, you don't trust me to not have an agenda here, but I promise, I'm actually curious about this. The Empire's fealty system is one of those things that seems fairly straightforward, but I suspect it quickly becomes exceedingly Byzantine in very short order.

In this case the order is quite simple; I owe my direct loyalty to my wife, Lady Mitara Newelle. Lady Newelle's direct liege is always the head of House Sarum, that currently being His Majesty Lord Arrach Sarum. The only authority above his is the Empress herself. An order from a higher authority usually trumps an order given by a lesser authority if they conflict, except in the case where the lesser authority is the immediate superior of the one being ordered. Stronger oaths and ties might exist in such an instance, such as marriage, knighthood or oaths of service. However, the word of the Empress is absolute, making her decree always superior to those of Lord Sarum or my lady. Thus, there is little difference in the order of authority here, with Lord Sarum merely being a second step in between my wife and the Empress.

I can give an example. My wife and lady orders me to step left, whilst my Lord Sarum orders me to step right. If my lady were wise, she would consider acquiescing to her liege's superior command to me, but in this case she insists. To a certain extent, it is up to my discretion which to follow, and I will have to suffer the consequences as they come. Custom recommends that I follow my direct lady's command as my immediate responsibility as a husband and defender of her household is to her. Afterwards Lord Sarum should bring up the matter of the contradiction with her rather than me (as I was merely following the order of my lady) though he still has the option to punish me directly for ignoring his order. If I choose to ignore my lady and step right, I may uncouthly destabilize our relationship and her local authority, but I would preserve the favor of my lady's lord, which may prove to be worth the sacrifice. The matter would take some consideration and have varying outcomes depending upon the specific circumstances. I would thus have to judge for myself what the most appropriate action would be.

However, in this case Empress Catiz I enters the room before I can decide and orders me to step backwards. I immediately follow her order, ignoring the others, as the Empress is the undisputed final authority in the Empire. Neither my lady nor Lord Sarum would have the option to punish me without undermining the Empress's authority, which they themselves should rightly be punished for were they unwise enough to do so.

Only one authority is above the Empress: God, who's laws are imparted to us by Scripture. Thus the only justifiable instance I could disobey the Empress is if her word directly contradicted Scriptural law and I was absolutely sure of the fact. That, however, does not happen.

As for our capsuleer organization, members of PIE are not barred from having loyalties or obligations to Imperial authorities other than the Emperor Family. We do need to understand the priority of those loyalties, however. The Empire as a whole always comes first, with the Empress's word holding the highest power. That goes for all Imperial subjects, not just Praetorians.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#76 - 2016-10-04 20:47:31 UTC
This is actually very enlightening. I know that I don’t fully understand the fealty system either, but I knew that as long as I obeyed my lady, things would turn out fine.

In the Marines, though, there was a slightly different priority system for which order to obey: the one given last.

For example, suppose one day as a company commander I am stuck in my office doing paperwork of some kind or another, and I decide that I want a salty, sweet snack. Furthermore, as the commander of about one hundred and fifty Marines with important paperwork to do, I decide that one of my Marines should go get them for me. There’s bound to be at least three or four around the company office that I can task for this who are not doing anything of import. So, I poke my head out of my office and see everyone is diligently working on something, and that the assistant duty NCO is off on an errand for someone else. (The assistant duty NCO is more or less the designated gofer.) With a sigh, I trot out of the company office and hang a left around the building to the designated smoke pit. Yes, there’s a reason we put it by the company office. Any Marine smoking has time to do other things.

Sure enough, there are two Marines at the smoke pit. One is recounting a story to another about something.

I call out, “Marines!” and give them the hand signal to rally to me when they look.

They come over, render a salute, and stand at the position of attention. I question them both on what they are taking a break from. I don’t begrudge them of this, it is every Marine’s ancient and sacred task to put in a little effort to avoid work. It keeps the NOCs and officers sharp. One of them was swabbing the second story rec room; the other was doing nothing. (Hint, if your NCO tells you that you’re done for the day and to go be out of sight, out of mind: don’t come to the smoke pit!) So, I order the Marine that was doing nothing to go down to the base exchange to get me some honey roasted peanuts. This is a perfectly legal order for me to give. I also give him some script to pay for it, because while it is legal for me to order him to get it, it is illegal for me to make him pay for it. More to the point, it is wrong.

Digression:
Upon taking command of my first company, I found out that when a certain senior NCO had wanted to smoke, he would wait until the smoke pit was full of junior Marines, and go over and ask them if anyone had an extra one to give him. Since they were junior Marines and he was a very senior NCO, they would. No script would change hands, it was just one Marine looking out for another. Which is okay in most cases, but not in this one. That senior NCO got paid almost three times what the junior Marines did, so for him to take advantage of them was wrong. There was also the power imbalance to consider. Junior Marines do not like to say no to NCOs of that rank. When I found out, I told him to go to the base exchange, buy a carton of smokes, and that if I ever found him taking a smoke from any other Marine ever, I would initiate disciplinary proceedings against him. This is also a perfectly legal order. Unit leaders take enough from our Marines. Sometimes we even take their lives in action. We should not be taking what little luxuries they have.

Back on subject:

I knew how much the honey roasted peanuts cost exactly. This is also an important bit for a leader to know. If the Marine comes back with incorrect change, then they are pulling one over on me. Of course, I would usually tell them to just keep the change, but only after the fact. That they get to keep the change is incidental to the exercise, not the point. I am not paying the Marine to get me peanuts. The Marine is getting me peanuts because I order it. If he gets to pocket some extra script (not a lot at all) it’s a bonus.

Actually back on subject this time:

So, I go back into my office and get back to work. The Marine—well call him Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli (clearly from Lonetrek)—heads off to the base exchange to get me my peanuts. Now, on the way to the exchange, he runs into his squad leader. His squad leader is almost his direct leader in the chain of command—one above the fire team leader, but they are more used in a tactical situation, not for work on base. The squad leader needs to get the Marines of his squad together for an important briefing before the company goes to the field tomorrow. The squad leader then tells Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli to go get four Marines from his squad who are down at the armory and to come to the second floor rec room (which should have already been swabbed, but the Marine who was supposed to do it took a smoke break.) Now, the order that LCPL Schmuckatelli is supposed to obey is clear: his squad leader’s. It was the last one given to him and the most up to date.

LCPL Schmuckatelli should (and had darn well better) tell his squad leader that he was tasked by me to go get me peanuts. At that point, the squad leader should consider my orders and if he should override the. The squad leader should determine that this briefing before the company goes to the field is more important than me getting peanuts, take the script from LCPL Schmuckatelli, and send him on to the armory. At the earliest possible time, the squad leader should return my script and explain why he chose to override my order. Since I am a reasonable officer, I will understand that this was the correct thing for my company’s mission readiness. (Note, in some cases this is not so clear cut. In any case, it is between me and the squad leader, not LCPL Schmuckatelli. He is doing the right thing by obeying whatever order he received last.)

CONT.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#77 - 2016-10-04 20:48:47 UTC
The reason for this is simple: on the battlefield, things change. An order given by me to someone an hour ago will generally be less correct than an order observing the immediate tactical situation. However, in all cases, the Marines should explain to every authority that they are carrying out the orders of someone else in their chain of command and what it is. If I order a squad to assault and breach the west side of a structure, but a platoon leader sees that it’s well covered by enemies with overlapping fields of fire and clear sightlines, he should change that. However, my intent was to take that building. I don’t care how it happens. The platoon leader should get my intent from my orders to the squad and then find a different way to carry that out, even if it is not following my orders to the letter. This is why at the beginning of an Operation Order, the commander’s intent will be clearly listed.

I know this has little to do with Amarr Oaths of Fealty, however I hope it proved insightful into the military line of thinking. As for me, I just do what Lady Newelle tells me to do. If for some reason I start getting orders from Lord Sarum, or the Empress, I will carry them out while informing Lady Newelle.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#78 - 2016-10-04 21:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Thank you, Aldrith, that was quite enlightening, and makes a great deal of sense. So if, for some reason, Lord Sarum were to give an order contradicting the Empress, your immediate duty would remain to the Empress, yes? Wouldn't that remain the case even without the direct oath of fealty through PIE?

And Ali: Yes, that also makes sense, and it's far more in-line with what I'm used to, as well.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#79 - 2016-10-04 22:09:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Yes. PIE's oath of fealty is actually just a re-affirmation of what is already tacitly agreed upon by all who consider themselves Imperial citizens. What this oath represents is a clarification and assertion of our position that we are, indeed, loyal to the throne and Empire. It is also a public show of support by stating in no uncertain terms that we consider the new Empress worthy of her position and fully recognize her authority over us. This is a salute to her, just as was our presence at the coronation parade, and our continued service in the name of the Empire.

And before you wonder at why this was necessary at all, to not have done this would be mildly insulting, or perhaps subtly subversive at worst. We Amarr are people who live on custom, courtesy and social obligation. It was necessary in the same way saying hello to a friend is, or shaking a hand after a business agreement is reached.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Vollhov Jr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2016-10-22 11:50:08 UTC
I, Vollhov Jr, do not swear fealty to the impure Udorian Empress, Catiz I