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Aunenen - Keepstar fiasco

First post
Author
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#21 - 2016-10-03 09:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Toobo wrote:
I'm not sure if we should judge how much people 'donate' to chritable causes, and my thoughts on this are same both in game and IRL. Charity is not something to be expected or demanded, and it's silly to criticise someone or organisation for not 'donating enough', and to call any donation, regardless of where/who it comes from 'insultingly low' is definitely not in good spirit of charity.

Bill Gates IRL donates incredible amount of money, but if he never ever donated a single penny, or only donated a penny per year, I would not criticise him in anyway whatsoever on this front.

People should not 'expect' charity and donations by default. It's a nice thing when someone does it, but nothing to be criticised of if someone doesn't do it or do it in the amount you think is 'not enough'. I'm just not with that whole way of thinking both IRL and in game.





In this case when you make something under a charities name you are 'expected' to make donations and accept criticism because you are intending to raise money for the said charity you have chosen to represent, lets not steer away from the fact that once this network is setup then the passive profit will be massive.

Bill Gates IRL does donate a lot to charity, mostly his own charity which could be argued that its being done to profit himself more.

Personally i think that this whole business venture should have all its profits and income made public.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#22 - 2016-10-03 10:18:36 UTC
Who decides how much is enough? Should people working for charities just get paid enough to have three meals a day? Is it 'wrong' to work for charity and make decent living at the same time? Are people that will use these keepstars for charitable purposes? If Lenny donated 100% of profit to charity will traders seed the market at no profit margin for themselves?

I can understand this operation comes under charity banner, and as such people will want more scrutinity on this.

But won't traders that seed this market make profit for themselves? Are they then making profit off charity organisation?

Won't the alliances involved benefit from strategic access and locations? Are they abusing charity banner to get an advantage in game?

What I find hypocritical is that people will 'profit' from having such network, not just Lenny. So while they profit in ISK, they don't want Lenny to turn profit for himself?

If people are going to use these keepstars at loss and consider their loss as donation to charity, then yeah, maybe you could say Lenny or the holding alliance should donate 100% to charity. But it's dodgy for people to profit from this in game while insisting the holders should not make profit.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2016-10-03 10:33:16 UTC
Toobo, you're being disingenuous or not understanding something here: if a structure is named SICK CHILDREN CHARITY, then the smaller the amount that goes to charity the more of an offence against decency it is. Twenty five percent sounds a bit mean.
Oh, the IWI link in your sig, ok.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#24 - 2016-10-03 11:00:37 UTC
Its too bad people can't leave RL at the login screen.

@lunettelulu7

Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#25 - 2016-10-03 11:11:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternus8lux8lucis
The reason why most of those rich people donate so much to charity is that it is a tax break, usually a GOOD one like here in Canada it is often matched by the govt dollar for dollar on taxes so for every $1 given you get a $2 tax exemption. This is often better than paying taxes on their or their business' income outright. Then if you build your own charity you get tax free status on that charity and can pay your workers incomes from YOUR charity dollars as wages. If you then work for said charity you are in effect paying yourself and your friends with your money and getting a govt tax break in the process.

Bill Gates and others make INCREDIBLE paper incomes in the likes of capital gains taxes that must be paid as their companies stocks skyrocket, owning controlling or large share blocks as they often do in them, taxes must be paid on them that are usually taxed in the highest tax bracket. Here in Canada that is above 50%.

So no I dont necessarily respect those that do it for the tax breaks and in fact have often wondered if my govt revoked that tax break for one year just how much charitable donations would drop. I am cynical but I know human nature and it would plummet like the Chinese space station will soon enough from orbit into the sea.Roll

This is in effect the same thing. Making a profit off charitable giving while the "tax break" is in the form of no one shoots the citadels because "OMG think of the children!!!" Which imo is a sad way to do business imo.Roll


EDIT

Google It and think before you support or dont support


Thought Id leave something like this here too.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#26 - 2016-10-03 12:44:07 UTC
I think what is 'reasonable' amount is totaly subjective. On my book 25% of profits for charity is more than good enough. That's more percentage than I will ever donate for charity in game or IRL. 25% profit of my business operation for charity? I see that as huge portion, you do not, fair enough, it's subjective.

As for IWI link on my sig, it's got nothing to do with it. I'm neither banker nor hold any shares at IWI. But I enjoy IWI greatly and had awesome time there. Consider me a fan boy, that's all. Not in any sort of business relationship with them in any sense, I'm just a player. Now that Lenny is pulling out of IWI it would not matter anyway though.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#27 - 2016-10-03 12:47:39 UTC
Just to add, if Care 4 Kids got any sort of game benefit from CCP for doing this then yes, there is something to discuss maybe. But as long as they playing by the same game rules and are vulnerable in a way that anybody in game can be, what can we really say about that.

Like I said in my first post, I'm unsure about putting out of game spin on in game op. What I'm arguing against is how people expect charity and donation from the 'rich' as if that's something to be expected and demanded.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#28 - 2016-10-03 13:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Toobo wrote:
Just to add, if Care 4 Kids got any sort of game benefit from CCP for doing this then yes, there is something to discuss maybe. But as long as they playing by the same game rules and are vulnerable in a way that anybody in game can be, what can we really say about that.

Like I said in my first post, I'm unsure about putting out of game spin on in game op. What I'm arguing against is how people expect charity and donation from the 'rich' as if that's something to be expected and demanded.


its more than an in game op, as far as im aware they accept cash donations aswell so that makes it out of game too

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#29 - 2016-10-03 13:40:30 UTC
I don't think I have much more to comment anymore. :p anyone, Lenny or whoever can do anything they want under any spin they want and donate as little or as much as they want. In my book, it's all okay as long as it's not in violation of EULA/TOS, and I let CCP judge that.

For all I care they can accept cash donations and make millions of RL $$$ and donate 0$ to charity. Not my business, and I don't understand why some people make ot their business to talk about what others do. My brains are just wired differently from those who care about what others do and I don't think I can understand, so I shall stop here.

Good luck with your ventures. There is always option for people who oppose this to make bigger projec than this and make bigger ISK than them and and accept more cash donations than them donate more % than them, or burn them down with brute force EVE style.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2016-10-03 14:04:00 UTC
Toobo wrote:
etc etc etc etc
and I don't understand why some people make ot their business to talk about what others do.
etc etc etc


Ok we get it you're a shill or something, pls stahp.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2016-10-03 14:06:12 UTC
Goatman NotMyFault wrote:
Too say like the regular players of EVE that really dont give a bublegum about anyones assets..... so what?

If its possible to shot Down, it wil at some point be shot Down.


CCP made EVE like this, so deal With losses.

Just a quick clarification. While the above statement is correct in general, you need to make sure that your actions are in concordance with the EVE Terms of Service (especially pay attention to section 10 and 11) and the EVE EULA.

We also want to remind everyone that we have a zero tolerance policy regarding charity scamming. If you find a charity related scam, please immediately contact our customer support team. Thank you!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

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