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Matar Ronin
#41 - 2016-10-01 19:31:07 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Call Blood Raiders what you will, but they're rarely oafish. Sure, they can be sinister, depraved, misguided, blood-thirsty, unbalanced or sometimes simply strange, but rarely oafish.
It is a shame to see someone who was once respected by so many become a knee jerk apologist for every low life that makes any attack on Matari intelligence. Seems like racism that is popular has become politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when intelligent people get comfortable with it enough to not recognize it and then defend it. Truly a sad day.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#42 - 2016-10-01 19:51:24 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Call Blood Raiders what you will, but they're rarely oafish. Sure, they can be sinister, depraved, misguided, blood-thirsty, unbalanced or sometimes simply strange, but rarely oafish.
It is a shame to see someone who was once respected by so many become a knee jerk apologist for every low life that makes any attack on Matari intelligence. Seems like racism that is popular has become politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when intelligent people get comfortable with it enough to not recognize it and then defend it. Truly a sad day.


Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
slaver cultists

Quote:
Catpiss Trashy-Murkon


I must admit that last one made me chuckle. It is literally the level of a child who can't win an argument and coming up with some silly name as if that makes their argument any more well reasoned.

Regardless, in almost every instance of talking about the Amarr, you have refered to us as 'the slaver cultists' and rarely as 'the Amarr'. I see that when such racism and bigotry is perceived as being popular, it becomes politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when people who should be more intelligent then they act like get comfortable with it enough not to recognise it. Truly a sad day.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#43 - 2016-10-01 20:00:07 UTC
Honestly, Matar Ronin, I haven't even been following the discussion here since the first page. I just saw an insult that seemed weirdly out of place in casual browsing.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#44 - 2016-10-01 21:04:26 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Call Blood Raiders what you will, but they're rarely oafish. Sure, they can be sinister, depraved, misguided, blood-thirsty, unbalanced or sometimes simply strange, but rarely oafish.
It is a shame to see someone who was once respected by so many become a knee jerk apologist for every low life that makes any attack on Matari intelligence. Seems like racism that is popular has become politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when intelligent people get comfortable with it enough to not recognize it and then defend it. Truly a sad day.


I wasn't calling Minmatar oafish. Why, in a different thread, I defended Anabella Rella's intelligence against Diana Kim's insults.

I was calling you oafish.

Because you act like an oaf.

Act like an oaf, be assumed to be an oaf.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2016-10-01 21:21:44 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Right. That person's dead. That person's dead because that was their choice. If that person doesn't want to risk being dead, then let 'em convert. If they honestly believe? Well, then they're gonna convert, aren't they? But if they prefer being dead to converting just to escape death... well, I don't see how that should ever be considered a poor choice.

I mean, consider: If I tell you 'if you switch sides, I'll give you a billion ISK', that's not virtue. That's graft. That's corruption. That's 'I'm going to do what you want, and you're going to give me what I want'. Similarly, someone acting virtuous because they're being bought off isn't virtue. It's just the opposite. So someone who converts because they're afraid of death? Isn't that exactly the same thing? Someone going for transactional graft? How is that virtuous?
Conversion is not for the benefit of the faithful, it is for the benefit of the converted.

To eat and breath keeps you from death too Arrendis, is it corruption then to live? You also mistake the judgement of mankind with the judgement of god. No deceiver or heretic will trick their way to paradise even if the whole Empire is fooled.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#46 - 2016-10-02 02:26:04 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Conversion is not for the benefit of the faithful, it is for the benefit of the converted.

To eat and breath keeps you from death too Arrendis, is it corruption then to live? You also mistake the judgement of mankind with the judgement of god. No deceiver or heretic will trick their way to paradise even if the whole Empire is fooled.


Right, and if the heretic doesn't want your paradise, then what concern of it is yours?
Matar Ronin
#47 - 2016-10-02 02:29:05 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Call Blood Raiders what you will, but they're rarely oafish. Sure, they can be sinister, depraved, misguided, blood-thirsty, unbalanced or sometimes simply strange, but rarely oafish.
It is a shame to see someone who was once respected by so many become a knee jerk apologist for every low life that makes any attack on Matari intelligence. Seems like racism that is popular has become politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when intelligent people get comfortable with it enough to not recognize it and then defend it. Truly a sad day.


Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
slaver cultists

Quote:
Catpiss Trashy-Murkon


I must admit that last one made me chuckle. It is literally the level of a child who can't win an argument and coming up with some silly name as if that makes their argument any more well reasoned.

Regardless, in almost every instance of talking about the Amarr, you have refered to us as 'the slaver cultists' and rarely as 'the Amarr'. I see that when such racism and bigotry is perceived as being popular, it becomes politically correct. Hate and bigotry win when people who should be more intelligent then they act like get comfortable with it enough not to recognise it. Truly a sad day.
Perhaps you have a different view of what racism is, a view that is not consistent with the definition.

I do loathe people who are members and or enablers of the slavery cultists who run the infestation you refer to as the amarr empire because of what they choose to do, not because of their nationality or ethnicity.

If they stop choosing to enslave fellow human beings and emancipate their current victims it is win win from my point of view. How is that racist?

I have known many people who are of amarr national and true amarr ethnic origin who no longer support slavery and it would be wrong of me to paint them with the same brush by inaccurately calling all amarrians slavery cultists. So when you see the term slavery cultists it refers to those people who choose to support the slavery cult not their nationality or ethnicity.

Your pot meet kettle line is cute, but factually inaccurate. Because there is no intellectual defense for supporting the actions of the slavery cultists you choose to try and smear those who attack them with the childish it takes one to know one meme.

You sir are another deluded enabler apologist for the infestation by the slavery cult that has mutated a once religious people into kidnapping murdering barbarians. The labels are accurate based on their actions, not dependent on their race.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#48 - 2016-10-02 02:45:14 UTC
So. I'm racist against Matari for wanting insults against Blood Raiders to be accurate? Is that an accurate unpacking of this whole thing?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#49 - 2016-10-02 04:52:49 UTC
To be fair, a Blood Raider like Chancellor Karsoth was the de facto ruler of the Amarr Empire for what, 2-3 years? I would say that feat would have required quite a lot of intelligence and cunning.

Capsuleers who profess to being Blood Raiders on the other hand? Some can be oafs.

Kurilaivonen|Concern
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#50 - 2016-10-02 05:53:54 UTC
Uh...... Isn't Otto True Amarr? And there was that other guy, why I'm blanking on his name I have no clue, don't do sooth sayer kids.....
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#51 - 2016-10-02 07:50:25 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
So. I'm racist against Matari for wanting insults against Blood Raiders to be accurate? Is that an accurate unpacking of this whole thing?


It's a humorous enough analysis, that any inaccuracy can be glossed over. Hurr.

I have been called many things, heretic, blasphemer, tyrannical, insufferable, annoying, self-important, and so on.

But not an oaf.

Because I'm not oafish.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Mitara Newelle
Newelle Family
#52 - 2016-10-03 17:15:48 UTC
God speed to the departed Heirs, Paradise awaits you. Seeing His Royal Majesty Garkeh Khanid fulfill his duty after all these years gives me great hope for a unified Amarr.

Your Royal Highness Merimeth Sarum, I pray you go to the Lord's side with no regrets. You have lead our House with dignity and honor during these turbulent times. Your swift and decisive actions to facilitate the reconstruction on Mekhios and the other damaged territories of the House caused by the treacherous Elder Attack shall never be forgotten. I am humbled and blessed to have been given the opportunity to serve you. Though it be God's Will that Her Majesty Catiz I is to rule Amarr, your death will Test me for all of my days.

Your Royal Highness Arrach Sarum, Holder of the Demesne of Sarum, Kilizh e Sani, Marshal of House Sarum - long may you lead the Great House of Sarum. I am yours to command - Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Lady Mitara Newelle of House Sarum, Holder of the Mekhios province of Damnidios Para'nashu, Champion of House Sarum, Sworn Upholder of the Faith, Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Admiral of Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
Matar Ronin
#53 - 2016-10-03 18:49:33 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
So. I'm racist against Matari for wanting insults against Blood Raiders to be accurate? Is that an accurate unpacking of this whole thing?
From my point of view it is always sad to see positive potential squandered, especially from those who had risen to leadership status. Same insult, two peoples smeared, only the accuracy of one defended.

It's like calling a Matari primitive, or a woman pilot the "b" or "c" word, when good people become comfortable allowing their peers and associates to say it unchallenged bigotry flourishes.

Yes I foolishly expect those who have risen to leadership to be consistent and challenge the bias equally when they have the need to challenge the accuracy of any part of it. The mantle of leadership carries with it not just the parts we want for our personal/ professional/ political goals but a larger responsibility to the entire New Eden cluster.

When a leader chooses to defend one against being oafish and not both it seems to be tacit agreement with the label for the one you did not defend. Something I don't believe you meant to do, although you can correct me here if I am wrong, but I suspect it did not occur to you to challenge the charge against a Matari because it was not as irritating because you have become desensitized by the sheer volume of those type verbal/written slights that shore up double standards in human society.

It is how hatred wins, it wears down the good people, it erodes them grain by grain like a relentless sandstorm, and sometimes, most times they don't notice the gradual degrading.

I find that sad.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#54 - 2016-10-03 20:52:44 UTC
Hm. Fascinating. With apologies, I hadn't even read the insult against you, as I had only skimmed this thread.

So-- essentially, failing to actively support you personally due to an oversight constitutes a material failure and makes me racist against Matari, nevermind that my newly-appointed Director of Operations, Parious MeHoff, is a Brutor.

Indeed, Matar Ronin, while I appreciate your many statements on the subject, I have not often found your words to have much substance. Even when you held the Arataka Research Consortium in high regard, you have never made an effort to join fleets, contribute to our operations, or indeed engage us in our research ventures. Other Matari, such as Khaprice or Elmund Egivand, have joined us, and have been duly recognized and rewarded for their contribution, despite having to evade patrols in Amarr space to fly with us. Their dedication and willingness to put aside differences in pursuit of a shared goal is laudable, and I greatly appreciate them for that effort.

In your case, I can only say that I hope you fulfill your potential.

It is my regret that I must say you haven't, yet.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Matar Ronin
#55 - 2016-10-03 21:13:26 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Hm. Fascinating. With apologies, I hadn't even read the insult against you, as I had only skimmed this thread.

So-- essentially, failing to actively support you personally due to an oversight constitutes a material failure and makes me racist against Matari, nevermind that my newly-appointed Director of Operations, Parious MeHoff, is a Brutor.

Indeed, Matar Ronin, while I appreciate your many statements on the subject, I have not often found your words to have much substance. Even when you held the Arataka Research Consortium in high regard, you have never made an effort to join fleets, contribute to our operations, or indeed engage us in our research ventures. Other Matari, such as Khaprice or Elmund Egivand, have joined us, and have been duly recognized and rewarded for their contribution, despite having to evade patrols in Amarr space to fly with us. Their dedication and willingness to put aside differences in pursuit of a shared goal is laudable, and I greatly appreciate them for that effort.

In your case, I can only say that I hope you fulfill your potential.

It is my regret that I must say you haven't, yet.
No apology on your part is required or expected. My assumption that you had read the previous statements is what led to my disappointment . Assuming things can often lead one on the wrong path.

Like my assumption that if we worked for the same shared goal, flying in the same fleet was not the only way to demonstrate it. Apparently that was also the wrong path.

While I applaud all who work towards our shared goals I have no expectation that the only way for them to do so is by flying in fleets with me. A difference in perspective it appears.

The pilots who have chosen to fly with me have also done so not for any recognition anyone might think due or rewards, we think the grave threat to all humanity in New Eden is motivation enough.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#56 - 2016-10-03 21:29:59 UTC
Ah! Fascinating! I hadn't been aware that you and your compatriots had been flying against the Drifters; usually we monitor Galnet sources for indication of Drifter-Capsuleer combat, and hadn't seen indication. Between that and no presence in ARC neocom channels, I'd assumed no work was being done. I must've been mistaken.

Do you have any data on the Hive, Nexus, or associated salvage? Jaret Victorian is convening a team for analysis of the Nexus, and we'd love to compare notes, or exchange salvaged materials to ensure that we both have a range of samples to study.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Matar Ronin
#57 - 2016-10-03 22:04:55 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Ah! Fascinating! I hadn't been aware that you and your compatriots had been flying against the Drifters; usually we monitor Galnet sources for indication of Drifter-Capsuleer combat, and hadn't seen indication. Between that and no presence in ARC neocom channels, I'd assumed no work was being done. I must've been mistaken.

Do you have any data on the Hive, Nexus, or associated salvage? Jaret Victorian is convening a team for analysis of the Nexus, and we'd love to compare notes, or exchange salvaged materials to ensure that we both have a range of samples to study.

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to supply the links to these services so I might check them myself.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#58 - 2016-10-03 22:07:23 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to supply the links to these services so I might check them myself.

That would go against IGS policies, I think.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Matar Ronin
#59 - 2016-10-03 22:11:45 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to supply the links to these services so I might check them myself.

That would go against IGS policies, I think.
Oh, I did not realize those services were some sort of prohibited source.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Matar Ronin
#60 - 2016-10-03 22:12:55 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Perhaps you'd be so kind as to supply the links to these services so I might check them myself.

That would go against IGS policies, I think.
Sorry we missed your 30th deadline. I had not read your thread.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.