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The new pirate faction ships
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Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-01-17 15:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Noisrevbus wrote:
A fun, and pretty hot topic.

There's two sides to the argument, on one side the lack of armor-tanked options for players with predominant Caldari skillsets (no Caldari or Amarr BS with either enough slots for sufficient tank or Missile bonuses; Scorpion offering the tiebreaking example, and likely the base of Saldana's suggestion).

On the other hand you have the question of wether we need "more ECM", which is better exemplified wether we need ECM at that level of gameplay. The pirate-faction BS, as mentioned, cost a great deal and usually only see the light of day in very specific situations and a certain level of high-resource, well-composed, medium-scale gameplay. In that small frame the other pirate faction BS already have exceptionally strong EW and conceptual roles (Bhaalgorns, Vindicators - to some extent Machariels). Something as powerful as suggested could shake things up there, and is at least worth discussing (even if there's grounds to be sceptical as well).


I completely agree with you but there is one difference between what already exists and this, these ship are actually useful in fleets of all sizes. There is a reason why ecm and not neuts are used in bigger fleets for example.
I think this adds a really interesting way for people who want to use ecm in armor fleets and have spare isk to have fun.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-01-17 15:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Hurp.

I agree that the pirate factions should be balanced out. However, currently, the main weakness of ECM is that most ECM ships have no extremely minimal fighting or tanking abilities. Introducing a line of ships which has the best ECM strength in the game on top of having actual fighting abilities screams OP, unless they give it 1 low slot or something.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-01-17 15:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Roosterton wrote:
Hurp.

I agree that the pirate factions should be balanced out. However, currently, the main weakness of ECM is that most ECM ships have no extremely minimal fighting or tanking abilities. Introducing a line of ships which has the best ECM strength in the game on top of having actual fighting abilities screams OP, unless they give it 1 low slot or something.


They are actually below the caldari recons in ECM strength, only by using 3-4 of your lows for signal distortion amps would give you more then them.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-01-17 15:07:40 UTC
Quote:
They are actually below the caldari recons in ECM strength, only by using 3-4 of your lows for signal amps would give you more then them.


Oh, nvm, I read that 125% ECM strength bonus as a +125% ECM strength bonus, which gives it entirely different meaning...
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-01-17 15:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
They are actually below the caldari recons in ECM strength, only by using 3-4 of your lows for signal amps would give you more then them.


Oh, nvm, I read that 125% ECM strength bonus as a +125% ECM strength bonus, which gives it entirely different meaning...


It is a 125% increase but the caldari recons get 30% per level which ends up being 150% at level 5.
The Scorpion have a 20% per level with a max of 100%, i thought it was fitting to have these ones in between.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-01-17 15:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
They are actually below the caldari recons in ECM strength, only by using 3-4 of your lows for signal amps would give you more then them.


Oh, nvm, I read that 125% ECM strength bonus as a +125% ECM strength bonus, which gives it entirely different meaning...


It is a 125% increase but the caldari recons get 30% per level which ends up being 150% at level 5.
The Scorpion have a 20% per level with a max of 100%, i thought it was fitting to have these ones in between.


I should actually look at ECM ship bonuses some time. Oops

So it IS a +125% bonus... Okay...

Hmm. Looking back at the OP, it doesn't actually seem too bad with the slot layouts you gave. They avoid stepping on the toes of the specialized caldari ecm ships (Rooks/Falcons/Scorpions) but actually combine a minor jamming ability with a bit of punch. It's not as bad as the Angel lineup of ships, which does ******* everything better than their Minnie counterparts. >_>

This would mean creating a whole new pirate faction, though. P

I've kinda always wanted to see EoM ships introduced to players as armor-tanked missile spammers. Amarr skill increases armor resists, Caldari skill increases missile damage, special ability increases missile range. Meh.

I think everyone agrees that there should be another pirate faction added for ~balance~, though.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-01-17 15:48:25 UTC
I can see it fitting something like this with pretty much no cpu/pg over

[Black Gurista Battleship]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II

So if you want more range you can fit dual heavy beam lasers or use some PG rigs/mods to fit bigger.
Also this cap wont last very long, standard crystals to save cap can be quite common.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-01-17 17:58:13 UTC
I still want a viable passive shield tank on a laser ship.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#29 - 2012-01-17 18:33:29 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
dramiel, cynabal, machariel - speed, falloff range


They're essentially Winmatar ships that for some completely unknown reason also require Gallente ship skills. I mean, what exactly is Gallente about fast, shield-tanking, projectile-toting ships?
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-01-17 22:13:36 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
dramiel, cynabal, machariel - speed, falloff range


They're essentially Winmatar ships that for some completely unknown reason also require Gallente ship skills. I mean, what exactly is Gallente about fast, shield-tanking, projectile-toting ships?


Doesn't the dram have a large number of drones for a non-drone frigate?
Lady Aja
#31 - 2012-01-17 22:38:36 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Why not EOM? Or Rogue Drone? Or space weasels?



we got more chances of getting EoM pirate ship bpc's than we do of gettign rogue drone bpc's

tonnes of flavour could be added to eve if npc's were allowed.

EoM
SOCT ships ( friends of the joves )
Merc ships mainly frigates and cruisers


i would like me a shield boosting blaster amarr shaped boat :)
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#32 - 2012-01-17 22:41:46 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
I still want a viable passive shield tank on a laser ship.


Myrmidon.
Aamrr
#33 - 2012-01-17 22:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Mavnas wrote:
I still want a viable passive shield tank on a laser ship.


Myrmidon.

Eve Online wrote:
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by drones, and 7.5% increase to armor repair amount per level


...um....
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-01-17 23:06:43 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
I still want a viable passive shield tank on a laser ship.


Passive shield tank and weapons that use cap is simply not a viable combo.
Khrage
#35 - 2012-01-17 23:54:14 UTC
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1782

Quote:
Q: Why are Rogue Drones not offering me ships?
◦A: Rogue Drones do not care about politics, marketing or profit and as such you can't have their stuff, no matter how cool they may look. More accurately, they literally are the ship they infest, so any cohabitation with a pod-pilot would be short at best.

Q: Can we have ships from mini-factions like the Equilibrium of Mankind?
◦A: Offering EoM ships to players would either mean having them drop through loot somehow, which is not really acceptable, or require them to be a fully fledged pirate organization, with territory, asteroid belt infestation, LP stores, agents and complexes. Doing so is a tremendous task which is not planned or even considered at the time being.


note that this was posted a while ago, but still.

EoM with missiles/armor bonuses & caldari/amarr skills needed would be awesome on so many different levels. though they already exsist at the frigate, dessy, and cruiser levels with the khanid ships, a bc and non-phoon bs would be cool. and if they create the whole race that fits the khanid style, it will just conflict with the khanid ships. better shot of just getting a faction khanid bs, that has unfortunately already been passed up (should have made the geddon navy a khanid boat...). i won't discuss all the points of pro and cons to this whole situation since it's been discussed many times before. safe to say if you want more reading on a big missile/armor boat, continue here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41219

as for a ecm pirate ships, good luck with that. ecm is already disliked by a majority of players, even if CCP were to add more that weren't as good as the dedicated ecm boats, more ecm is would be rage inducing.

keep up dicussionof new pirate races though! just remember, pirate ships/races are all about a niche, just like explained in the very first link i posted. so gotta be something that isn't already taken up by the empires or pirate factions.
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-01-18 01:05:18 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
I can see it fitting something like this with pretty much no cpu/pg over

[Black Gurista Battleship]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II

ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - White Noise Generator II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II

So if you want more range you can fit dual heavy beam lasers or use some PG rigs/mods to fit bigger.
Also this cap wont last very long, standard crystals to save cap can be quite common.

I believe that if you are going to be jamming that you should have atleast 4 slots dedicated for jamming -- 1 for each racial. Id propose you drop 1 low for 1 mid. Or just give the thing a huge dronebay unbonused
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-01-18 01:13:10 UTC
river Zateki wrote:

I believe that if you are going to be jamming that you should have atleast 4 slots dedicated for jamming -- 1 for each racial. Id propose you drop 1 low for 1 mid. Or just give the thing a huge dronebay unbonused


Who would ever fit all 4 different jammers? Most scorpions use 2-4 jammers and you fit according to what you are facing, not against everything.
Large drone bay is not a good idea, thats something for gallente ships and would give this one a bit too much.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#38 - 2012-01-18 18:53:05 UTC
I've always wanted to see both caldari/minmatar pirate ships and amarr/gallente pirate ships. Caldari/Minmatar boats could have shield resistance and projectile bonuses, and the Amarr/Gallente boats could have armor resistance and drone bonuses.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Khrage
#39 - 2012-01-18 21:01:29 UTC
Mechael wrote:
I've always wanted to see both caldari/minmatar pirate ships and amarr/gallente pirate ships. Caldari/Minmatar boats could have shield resistance and projectile bonuses, and the Amarr/Gallente boats could have armor resistance and drone bonuses.


too similar to what minmater and gallente already are. plus no more projectile boats are needed. there is enough winmatar out there already, you're welcome Goose. same with drones though too, guristas and gallente already are primary drone users, you don't need a third option.
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#40 - 2012-01-18 21:22:48 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Why not EOM?


Exactly, +1

Hulls already exist in-game (and are drop dead sexy).

Just needs some space allotted to them (New Nullsec NPC Regions sounds like a good addition to the game).

Rails + Armor + Decent Speed

Caldari and Amarr Skills Required.

Done and Done.
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