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This whole training alts thing...

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Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#1 - 2016-09-27 14:47:13 UTC
So I was thinking "Hey it would be fun to get an alt and try different options in what trained etc"
and I created it and logged into game, so far so good, then get into put something into training schedual
and here comes the cinderblock.... I have to pay an plex in order to train an alt.

Really? I have to pay additional 30 days for playing an alt, a whole new game basically
just to train an alt. is this the way its suppose to be? that would seriously be an alt killer
unless of course suddenly you make that alts have the same brain , same skills, same everything
since if your going to share the training timnes, scheduals etc, then why not share the skills
that you already gotten for the primary player.

thats the point of an alt to keep them separate, is it not? to try something totally new?
then why would you make it so that you have to play/pay for a whole new game for
an alt?

or am I missing some way of letting the alt gain skills?

I am the Light in the Darkness....
Erebus Vain
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-09-27 15:06:02 UTC
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/dual-character-training/

This might help and it might not, but i'd give it a good read first.
Quihote
Derp Company
Get Off My Lawn
#3 - 2016-09-27 15:11:38 UTC
You don't have to pay to train an alt on the same account. You can pause training on the primary character in order to train on the alt. If you want to train them simultaneously, then you have to pay.

However, training an alt and a primary on the same account doesn't make sense as a long term plan if you plan on training both characters. If you pay cash for a sub, it's cheaper and more practical to start a second account. If plexing the cost is the same but it might still be more practical to have another account.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2016-09-27 15:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Edit: Looks like the previous poster beat me to the answer. :)

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-09-27 15:18:11 UTC
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
So I was thinking "Hey it would be fun to get an alt and try different options in what trained etc"
and I created it and logged into game, so far so good, then get into put something into training schedual
and here comes the cinderblock.... I have to pay an plex in order to train an alt.

Really? I have to pay additional 30 days for playing an alt, a whole new game basically
just to train an alt. is this the way its suppose to be? that would seriously be an alt killer
unless of course suddenly you make that alts have the same brain , same skills, same everything
since if your going to share the training timnes, scheduals etc, then why not share the skills
that you already gotten for the primary player.

thats the point of an alt to keep them separate, is it not? to try something totally new?
then why would you make it so that you have to play/pay for a whole new game for
an alt?

or am I missing some way of letting the alt gain skills?


You have to pay a plex to train two characters concurrently.

In most cases, you're better off just training whatever on your main. There are exceptions, usually when you want the alt to be able to do a specific thing that takes a finite amount of SP, such as a station-sitting trader alt.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-09-27 15:20:26 UTC
Basically, if you plan to train your alt for longer than 90 days, it makes more sense to just PLEX a second account. (The break even may have changed, but that's what it used to be). It's good for cyno alts, basic research alts, PI alts, those sorts of things.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2016-09-27 15:28:06 UTC
Just wanna say if you think you might want another character, you actually / probably want another two.

Post your alts if you got 'em lol

http://eveboard.com/compare/Rain6635,Rain6636,Rain6637,Rain6638,Rain6639

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#8 - 2016-09-27 15:28:27 UTC
Quihote wrote:
You don't have to pay to train an alt on the same account. You can pause training on the primary character in order to train on the alt. If you want to train them simultaneously, then you have to pay.

However, training an alt and a primary on the same account doesn't make sense as a long term plan if you plan on training both characters. If you pay cash for a sub, it's cheaper and more practical to start a second account. If plexing the cost is the same but it might still be more practical to have another account.



that whole thing means just this....
You can have an alt but not train the alt unless you pause your main.
then what is the point of having an alt if you can not train him/her?

My point is that CCP made it so that in reality in order to have an effective alt(mind I said effective)
then you have to buy a whole new game by either buy plex or by shopping for 19.95 euros another
game. That is not an alt. By forcing the playerbase to in reality eother chose to pause their main
or buy a whole new game to effectively play an alt, they are cheating you of the alt experience.

if you have an alt, it SHOULD be totally and I mean TOTALLY separate from the main.

With the way the system works now its no use to get an alt, why would you when most of your time you have to have
training, specially when some skills take days and weeks to learn, why then force people to have to buy
additional game time for use with their alt.

Its a smart way for them to make cash for sure, but it also for those who are altoholics is a turnoff because
I am sure not many would want to pay 2 or 3 games just in order to be allowed to have an alt.

To me it makes no sense why I should be forced to buy a whole new game, why not make the second
or third training que cost something LESS than the whole new game?

I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.

I am the Light in the Darkness....
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-09-27 15:44:08 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
Quihote wrote:
You don't have to pay to train an alt on the same account. You can pause training on the primary character in order to train on the alt. If you want to train them simultaneously, then you have to pay.

However, training an alt and a primary on the same account doesn't make sense as a long term plan if you plan on training both characters. If you pay cash for a sub, it's cheaper and more practical to start a second account. If plexing the cost is the same but it might still be more practical to have another account.



that whole thing means just this....
You can have an alt but not train the alt unless you pause your main.
then what is the point of having an alt if you can not train him/her?

My point is that CCP made it so that in reality in order to have an effective alt(mind I said effective)
then you have to buy a whole new game by either buy plex or by shopping for 19.95 euros another
game. That is not an alt. By forcing the playerbase to in reality eother chose to pause their main
or buy a whole new game to effectively play an alt, they are cheating you of the alt experience.

if you have an alt, it SHOULD be totally and I mean TOTALLY separate from the main.

With the way the system works now its no use to get an alt, why would you when most of your time you have to have
training, specially when some skills take days and weeks to learn, why then force people to have to buy
additional game time for use with their alt.

Its a smart way for them to make cash for sure, but it also for those who are altoholics is a turnoff because
I am sure not many would want to pay 2 or 3 games just in order to be allowed to have an alt.

To me it makes no sense why I should be forced to buy a whole new game, why not make the second
or third training que cost something LESS than the whole new game?

I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.


If it worked in the ludicrously myopic and ignorant-of-the-many-intertwining-aspects-of-gameplay-and-economy fashion that you wish, literally everyone would be running permanent 2700 sp/hr training on all of their alts for the purpose of extraction, as there would be no additional cost associated with doing so.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#10 - 2016-09-27 15:49:15 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
Quihote wrote:
You don't have to pay to train an alt on the same account. You can pause training on the primary character in order to train on the alt. If you want to train them simultaneously, then you have to pay.

However, training an alt and a primary on the same account doesn't make sense as a long term plan if you plan on training both characters. If you pay cash for a sub, it's cheaper and more practical to start a second account. If plexing the cost is the same but it might still be more practical to have another account.



that whole thing means just this....
You can have an alt but not train the alt unless you pause your main.
then what is the point of having an alt if you can not train him/her?

My point is that CCP made it so that in reality in order to have an effective alt(mind I said effective)
then you have to buy a whole new game by either buy plex or by shopping for 19.95 euros another
game. That is not an alt. By forcing the playerbase to in reality eother chose to pause their main
or buy a whole new game to effectively play an alt, they are cheating you of the alt experience.

if you have an alt, it SHOULD be totally and I mean TOTALLY separate from the main.

With the way the system works now its no use to get an alt, why would you when most of your time you have to have
training, specially when some skills take days and weeks to learn, why then force people to have to buy
additional game time for use with their alt.

Its a smart way for them to make cash for sure, but it also for those who are altoholics is a turnoff because
I am sure not many would want to pay 2 or 3 games just in order to be allowed to have an alt.

To me it makes no sense why I should be forced to buy a whole new game, why not make the second
or third training que cost something LESS than the whole new game?

I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.


If it worked in the ludicrously myopic and ignorant-of-the-many-intertwining-aspects-of-gameplay-and-economy fashion that you wish, literally everyone would be running permanent 2700 sp/hr training on all of their alts for the purpose of extraction, as there would be no additional cost associated with doing so.


and is that not the point of an alt, the ability to be totally separate from your main character? Or do you think an umbilical cord is nedcessary for an alt? what if you want to play an female and then have an male alt, you then locked that you can only do one thing per game? I never seen anywhere, ANYWHERE, in other mmo's where they lock the game to the point that if you want to have an alt then you have to either stop training, stop progress, stop cd's etc in order to play your alt. It totally defeats the point of having an alt if you have to go into other characters and do things in order for the second character to work at all.


I am the Light in the Darkness....
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#11 - 2016-09-27 15:53:32 UTC
I could certainly understand if there was some way the alts was connected to eachother, lets say they share the skills, then I could understand the need to have one schedual for both. But this is nothing but a cheap play from CCP to get people to pay extra for their alt because key to progress in EVE is still training your skills, you can't run around skilless, then you get no new ships, you get no progress, so they made it so that you have to either be satisified with having 1 toon, or start paying for each additional account.

this wishywashy of yeah you can play but you can't train the alt or the main, thats just hogwash to me, it is a cheap play to get people to pay extra.

I am the Light in the Darkness....
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-09-27 15:56:59 UTC
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.


No MMO lets you train multiple characters simultaneously unless you have multiple accounts. Why should Eve be any different ?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-09-27 16:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:


and is that not the point of an alt, the ability to be totally separate from your main character? Or do you think an umbilical cord is nedcessary for an alt? what if you want to play an female and then have an male alt, you then locked that you can only do one thing per game?



Do you not grasp that there is an entire economy that revolves around skillpoints, and that this economy is contingent on the acquisition of SP requiring a certain degree of investment?

If being able to do everything in the game were supposed to be something easily achieved, you would just come out of the character gen with level 5 in everything. It's an intended aspect of the game design that character training is a meaningful decision.

You're very nearly talking about destroying the game - no exaggeration - for the sake of satisfying your particular neurosis.

Quote:

I never seen anywhere, ANYWHERE, in other mmo's where they lock the game to the point that if you want to have an alt then you have to either stop training, stop progress, stop cd's etc in order to play your alt.


Uh, sure you have. In fact, you've seen it in EVERY other MMO. How much XP are you earning on your World of Warcraft main while you're logged into your alt?

******* zero, that's how much.

Quote:
It totally defeats the point of having an alt if you have to go into other characters and do things in order for the second character to work at all.



This is the third time you've made this idiotic statement and this is the third time I'll be telling you that you're wrong.

There are innumerable reasons to train a limited-SP alt, including:

-Cyno alts
-Spies/cloaky campers/etc
-Research and manufacturing
-Traders
-Out-of-corp freighter pilots
-PI alts
-etc.

Most of those can be done in single-digit millions of SP, and are well worth multi-training or injecting an alt.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#14 - 2016-09-27 16:04:27 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.


No MMO lets you train multiple characters simultaneously unless you have multiple accounts. Why should Eve be any different ?


really?
I play many MMO's that alts do not share any cd's betweeen them at all.
Its not like , lets say wow (since everyone knows that) the JC that just crushed a gem and has a 3 days cd, that the alts also have 3 day cd's. an alt is totally separate and you got to train your skills from ground up in that game as well. and they still do not share cd's. so...why does eve?

I am the Light in the Darkness....
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#15 - 2016-09-27 16:11:00 UTC
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
really?
I play many MMO's that alts do not share any cd's betweeen them at all.
Its not like , lets say wow (since everyone knows that) the JC that just crushed a gem and has a 3 days cd, that the alts also have 3 day cd's. an alt is totally separate and you got to train your skills from ground up in that game as well. and they still do not share cd's. so...why does eve?


EVE lets you train skills when you're not logged in. You are free to train skills on alts, simply pause the training queue on your main and start it up on an alt.

Could you gain XP on two characters at once on the same account at the same time in wow?
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#16 - 2016-09-27 16:12:14 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:


and is that not the point of an alt, the ability to be totally separate from your main character? Or do you think an umbilical cord is nedcessary for an alt? what if you want to play an female and then have an male alt, you then locked that you can only do one thing per game?



Do you not grasp that there is an entire economy that revolves around skillpoints, and that this is economy is contingent on the acquisition of SP requiring a certain degree of investment?

If being able to do everything in the game were supposed to be something easily achieved, you would just come out of the character gen with level 5 in everything. It's an intended aspect of the game design that character training is a meaningful decision.

You're very nearly talking about destroying the game - no exaggeration - for the sake of satisfying your particular neurosis.

Quote:

I never seen anywhere, ANYWHERE, in other mmo's where they lock the game to the point that if you want to have an alt then you have to either stop training, stop progress, stop cd's etc in order to play your alt.


Uh, sure you have. In fact, you've seen it in EVERY other MMO. How much XP are you earning on your World of Warcraft main while you're logged into your alt?

******* zero, that's how much.

Quote:
It totally defeats the point of having an alt if you have to go into other characters and do things in order for the second character to work at all.



This is the third time you've made this idiotic statement and this is the third time I'll be telling you that you're wrong.

There are innumerable reasons to train a limited-SP alt, including:

-Cyno alts
-Spies/cloaky campers/etc
-Research and manufacturing
-Traders
-Out-of-corp freighter pilots
-PI alts
-etc.

Most of those can be done in single-digit millions of SP, and are well worth multi-training or injecting an alt.


I would ask you to refrain from profanities.

1. How many xp points do I earn in wow? I can tell you that I let my cd's run down while playing other alts. that does not need to be stopped just cause I play an alt. and xp (same as you use sp here) is earned by doing the same thing over and over and over again, on alts, you still have to level from 1-110 and with each profession you have to train them upwards, individually.

2. None of your reasonings have proven to be any reason at all to prevent a person from having a totally separate alt. That alt still needs to train the sp to get to that point. that alt still needs to spend the same amount of Zil to buy all the ship, riggs etc. It is not like you get some bonus for having the main and alt connected to each other.

3. the only reason this exists is to force people to buy separate subscriptions for their alts, thusly increasing the money CCP earns from the people thats so bored cause their main have to wait 30,40,50 and more days for a skill to be ready so they can progress onwards. During that time...what do they do? they are locked from alting unless they pause their main thus prolonging the wait time. or they are forced to buy another game. Maybe for hardcore EVE players it makes sense, but it does not so to me.

I am the Light in the Darkness....
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-09-27 16:12:45 UTC
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
I am seriously getting turned off from playing EVE at all cause I sure as heck do not want to pay
for 3 accounts just to be allowed to train my alts. No, then I rather go back to somewhere where they do not
charge you a whole new game just to allow you to use alts.


No MMO lets you train multiple characters simultaneously unless you have multiple accounts. Why should Eve be any different ?


really?
I play many MMO's that alts do not share any cd's betweeen them at all.
Its not like , lets say wow (since everyone knows that) the JC that just crushed a gem and has a 3 days cd, that the alts also have 3 day cd's. an alt is totally separate and you got to train your skills from ground up in that game as well. and they still do not share cd's. so...why does eve?


Does your character get any better during the cooldown ?

If not, cooldowns aren't the training. They are the gaps between when you are allowed to train.
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh
Miners Trade Company
#18 - 2016-09-27 16:15:00 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
really?
I play many MMO's that alts do not share any cd's betweeen them at all.
Its not like , lets say wow (since everyone knows that) the JC that just crushed a gem and has a 3 days cd, that the alts also have 3 day cd's. an alt is totally separate and you got to train your skills from ground up in that game as well. and they still do not share cd's. so...why does eve?


EVE lets you train skills when you're not logged in. You are free to train skills on alts, simply pause the training queue on your main and start it up on an alt.

Could you gain XP on two characters at once on the same account at the same time in wow?


The ability to train skills here is the same as having cd's on crafting in other mmo's
thats a time sink and some do it by forcing training to be 60-100 days thus slowing progress
some do it by immens cost of grathering with low rate of the items needed
some do it with crafting one piece and then taking 3-4 days for cd and then it is necessary with 50 or 100 pieces
etc etc

I am the Light in the Darkness....
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#19 - 2016-09-27 16:16:29 UTC
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:
I would ask you to refrain from profanities.

1. How many xp points do I earn in wow? I can tell you that I let my cd's run down while playing other alts. that does not need to be stopped just cause I play an alt. and xp (same as you use sp here) is earned by doing the same thing over and over and over again, on alts, you still have to level from 1-110 and with each profession you have to train them upwards, individually.

2. None of your reasonings have proven to be any reason at all to prevent a person from having a totally separate alt. That alt still needs to train the sp to get to that point. that alt still needs to spend the same amount of Zil to buy all the ship, riggs etc. It is not like you get some bonus for having the main and alt connected to each other.

3. the only reason this exists is to force people to buy separate subscriptions for their alts, thusly increasing the money CCP earns from the people thats so bored cause their main have to wait 30,40,50 and more days for a skill to be ready so they can progress onwards. During that time...what do they do? they are locked from alting unless they pause their main thus prolonging the wait time. or they are forced to buy another game. Maybe for hardcore EVE players it makes sense, but it does not so to me.


This isn't wow. Saying EVE should do something because wow does it is like saying we should add guns and grenades to EVE because COD has them.

There are lasting consequences for your decisions here, unlike most other games. Pick your path carefully, live with mistakes. If you want to play two different characters with two different names and histories, you're going to have to either take longer to train them (pause the skill queue and switch it to a second character slot) or start a new account. There is no power leveling, there is no easily ducking your actions and your history by spinning up a max skilled alt (well, skill injectors now, but still...).

EVE is successful because of how much it's NOT like wow.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-09-27 16:16:29 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Jotunhammer Al'Vargh wrote:

1. How many xp points do I earn in wow? I can tell you that I let my cd's run down while playing other alts. that does not need to be stopped just cause I play an alt. and xp (same as you use sp here) is earned by doing the same thing over and over and over again, on alts, you still have to level from 1-110 and with each profession you have to train them upwards, individually.


I like how you've moved the goalposts from SPs to "cooldowns". Answer the question I asked, don't turn it into a different question that you prefer because the one I asked was inconvenient for your whiny argument.

Quote:
2. None of your reasonings have proven to be any reason at all to prevent a person from having a totally separate alt. That alt still needs to train the sp to get to that point. that alt still needs to spend the same amount of Zil to buy all the ship, riggs etc. It is not like you get some bonus for having the main and alt connected to each other.


You understand that we literally buy and sell skillpoints from each other, right? And that you're basically saying, "Destroy that entire aspect of the economy because I'm an entitled little twit and merely wanting something means I deserve it."

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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