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ECM Jammer not working as advertised - please fix or relabel.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#21 - 2016-09-27 13:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
PopeUrban wrote:
(Though smartbombs are ACTUALLY banned in hisec if I remember right)
reps.


Bombs are banned in HS. Disco is just shiny, and every one loves shiny.

[quote]

Well firstly, I have used Smart Bombs in high sec and they are not illegal. They do however require disabling the safety system, and you need to be careful that there are no non-aggressive ships in the blast radius.... And hence the requirement to disable safety system to use the Burst Jammer is not sufficient. Because all AoE devices have this requirement. Just because something something could conceivably become illegal does not make it clear in what circumstances it will be illegal.... According to the definition of what is illegal, reading from wiki helps and guides, jamming constitutes an illegal act - and this is not the same (and therefore does not include) jamming applied UPON a player to prevent 3rd parties from shooting them.


This whole thing just brings to mind the old adage that ignorance of the law is no excuse for lawbreaking. Drones are annoying. But if you shoot down a drone that comes into your yard. Or throw a net over it. The FAA will not take kindly, and you just committed a FEDERAL crime. I say this not to approve or disapprove, but as an example of an obscure law that can get an average person in serious trouble, due to not knowing the law. And complaining that you didn't know, won't help you at all.

You didn't realize how the mechanic worked, you got your ship blown up. Well I've gotten my ship blown up too the first time I used a SB in HS for missioning. I think I hit a structure or asteroid and concord showed up and I lost my ship. So I asked on help what the heck happened, somewhat miffed, and they explained. I thanked them, learned, adapted, and continued playing.

You misunderstood a mechanic, and got your ship blown up. Good, you're immortal, getting blown up is no big deal. Now learn and adapt. Don't demand changes because you made a mistake. Especially when you obviously don't appreciate the reasons the current mechanic is in place. If you really want to know how we feel, post this on GD.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#22 - 2016-09-27 13:55:23 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
If you really want to know how we feel, post this on GD.


please, please, please post this in GD......

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#23 - 2016-09-27 14:02:12 UTC
Op found Nevil's stash?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#24 - 2016-09-27 14:14:54 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
It is disrupting target locks on ships within range.

Which is an aggressive act.
You can't screw with someone's targeting without aggression Rights .

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#25 - 2016-09-27 14:22:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Op found Nevil's stash?



I'll be needing a little background and context there mate. I have no idea what you're on about.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#26 - 2016-09-27 14:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Okay, well thanks everyone for your input. I would however like to run another scenario past you.

Lets say there is an aggressive gate camp on a low sec system (sec = 0.5 or lower) sitting off the gate. My fleet has jumped out of hyperspace and is right in the crosshairs of the offensive ships which are sitting just off the gate in ambush. While positioned in the middle of the fleet I activate my Burst Jammer to disrupt enemies targeting my fleet.

So, what will happen in this scenario? Will I be criminal or suspect flagged? If there are gate guns will they open fire on my ship?
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#27 - 2016-09-27 15:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Firing an offensive module is handled the same as firing a weapon. If you take the first shot, then you are treated as the bad guy by game mechanics, not those gate campers, that might have been waiting for a juicer target and didn't want to break formation and would have ignored you. (unlikely but it happens) .

Also, if you're sitting in the middle of your fleet, you are disrupting your OWN FLEETS targeting, not the enemies. I think this is the part you are confused about. To disrupt the enemy's targeting you need to get your ship in the middle of the enemy fleet. Burst range is very low.

If you are in the middle of the enemy fleet, and activate that module and hit anything, then the gate guns will fire on you, and the campers will concentrate fire on you, because ECM is primary. You will not be able to warp through the gate, and will have an engagement timer. You will lose sec status. Concord will not show up.

I guess you just need to understand the difference between strategically agressive, and tactically agressive. Gate camping is strategically agressive, but it is not tactically agressive. Meaning technically, a ship is just sitting on a gate, that doesn't flip any switches that define agressive behavior. Targeting someone is not aggressive either as there are friendly reasons to target another player. Activating a module that inflicts damage or impairs a ship's ability to fight is tactically agressive and will activate different security mechanics based on your location and your corp/alliance/fleet status.

Generally speaking. If you want to fly an ECM ship in fleet. Fit targeted modules and stay out of range.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#28 - 2016-09-27 15:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Iria Ahrens wrote:
...

Also, if you're sitting in the middle of your fleet, you are disrupting your OWN FLEETS targeting, not the enemies. I think this is the part you are confused about. To disrupt the enemy's targeting you need to get your ship in the middle of the enemy fleet. Burst range is very low..



Yes, and this is precisely the reason why we have this understanding. I am assuming that the module description is correct - and the module description reads as follows:

Quote:
Emits random electronic bursts which have a chance of momentarily disrupting target locks on ships within range.

Given the unstable nature of the bursts and the amount of internal shielding needed to ensure they do not affect their own point of origin, this module requires large amounts of capacitor energy to operate.

Note: Only one module of this type can be activated at the same time.


You will note carefully that it says, "disrupts target locks on ships within range", not, "disrupt the targeting locks of ships within range".

Now. I take this to mean that if I am in the middle of my own fleet, with the enemy locked onto my fleet ships, that I will be disrupting the enemy - and that I would only be disrupting my fleet's targeting if the enemy is inside my burst range. So we have here a very basic misunderstanding of what this module is doing. Because, going of the description it should NOT be doing what you're saying.

I know you're probably more experienced in this game, but have you actually used this module? Is there anyone here who has actually used this module and can definitely say what it is doing. Because, if it is doing what you are saying then it is not suitable for my needs.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#29 - 2016-09-27 15:29:23 UTC
In the middle of your fleet or the gatecamping fleet? Also, lowsec is 0.4-0.1.

If you activate it near your fleet, your fleet will lose all locks if the jam is successful.

If you activate it near the gatecamping-fleet, they will lose all locks if the jam is successful.

If the fleets are near each other, everyone in the range of your burst will lose all target locks if the jam is successful.

As it's an aggressive module, you will get a weapons timer and turn suspect

Wormholer for life.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-09-27 15:31:19 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
I love these posts where the OP endlessly argues with people who are immeasurably more knowledgeable about the game than they are.

The Burst Jammer works exactly like standard ECM, except for two things:

1. It's AOE.
2. Its jamming effect doesn't have a duration, it just breaks the lock.

It is an aggressive act against a ship that is targeting something.

All that aside, this is SUPER simple:

Are you in high sec?
Did you have to set safety to red?

If both of those are true, and you activate the module, and it affects any player you couldn't legally shoot, you're going to get concordokkend.

Quote:
I know you're probably more experienced in this game, but have you actually used this module? Is there anyone here who has actually used this module and can definitely say what it is doing. Because, if it is doing what you are saying then it is not suitable for my needs.


Correct. It is not suitable for your needs. I would wager that most of the people responding to you have used them at some point, because they have accurately described what it does (and also, they're fun to troll with).

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#31 - 2016-09-27 15:36:43 UTC
All ECM in this game works the same way.

If you get hit with ECM and the jam is successful, you will lose all targets you had locked.
-If it's a targeted ECM-module, you won't be able to target anything until the cycle is completed.
-If it's an AOE- ECM ( such as the burst jammer), you will only lose any targets you had locked, but you can relock them straight away.

I've flown ECM-ships quite abit and I've also used the burst jammer.

Wormholer for life.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#32 - 2016-09-27 15:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
I love these posts where the OP endlessly argues with people who are immeasurably more knowledgeable about the game than they are..


If you truly are more knowledgeable I would appreciate a straight answer. Yes, I am a noob here.

I have copy pasted the very description for the module in question and it does not say what you are saying. So who is right here? Are you right, or is the module description correct?

Basically, my understanding is that if my friendly ship is inside my burst range, and someone else is shooting them. Then if I activate this module I can break the lock and save my friend. That is what the description is saying. That is why I fitted the damned module - and that is why I was so darned surprised when Concord showed up and blew up my ship. If this is not true then the module description needs to be edited.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#33 - 2016-09-27 15:44:44 UTC
No, what it does is try to jam out everyone within its range.
Ignore the fluff text and listen to the vet's offering their experienc and patience.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#34 - 2016-09-27 15:46:36 UTC
Marcus Binchiette wrote:


I know you're probably more experienced in this game, but have you actually used this module? Is there anyone here who has actually used this module and can definitely say what it is doing. Because, if it is doing what you are saying then it is not suitable for my needs.


>>

Ok, if you want to be a fleet buffer, that's cool. You should look into Command Destroyers, BCs, and Command Ships.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2016-09-27 15:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Marcus Binchiette wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
I love these posts where the OP endlessly argues with people who are immeasurably more knowledgeable about the game than they are..


If you truly are more knowledgeable I would appreciate a straight answer. Yes, I am a noob here.

I have copy pasted the very description for the module in question and it does not say what you are saying. So who is right here? Are you right, or is the module description correct?

Basically, my understanding is that if my friendly ship is inside my burst range, and someone else is shooting them. Then if I activate this module I can break the lock and save my friend. That is what the description is saying. That is why I fitted the damned module - and that is why I was so darned surprised when Concord showed up and blew up my ship. If this is not true then the module description needs to be edited.



Literally every respondent in the thread has given you a straight answer. You've universally ignored them because you're pretty sure you know better.

Your use of the ECM burst is incorrect. It doesn't do what you think it does. It does what every other person has told you it does. Move on.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-09-27 15:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Good lord...

If you think the description is wrong or contains a typo, make a support ticket and inform CCP instead of being a raging pedant.

You've been told what the module does by many people who are experienced in the how and why of it; nobody is feeding you disinformation, because that is forbidden in this area of the forums.

edit looking at your posting history you like to argue the toss with people who know what they're talking about, the golden rules thread being an example where you claimed that playing a PvP game doesn't mean that you're consenting to PvP Roll

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Marcus Binchiette
Federal Vanguard
#37 - 2016-09-27 15:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Binchiette
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
No, what it does is try to jam out everyone within its range.
Ignore the fluff text and listen to the vet's offering their experienc and patience.


Thank you.
Memphis Baas
#38 - 2016-09-27 16:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
The "target lock" is inside the computer of the ship that does the targeting. It's not a paddle lock attached to the targeted ship. If I target-lock you, your ship doesn't change AT ALL (maybe your ship decides to show a yellow box around my ship's name in your overview). The lock is inside my ship's computer. The jamming would have to affect my ship to get rid of this lock.

The description text of modules in-game is fluff text. Composed by a CCP dev, who most likely speaks Icelandic as primary language, and English as second. Your argument is based on the semantics of the word "on" as used by an Icelander in a piece of lore text to describe the game effects of a module from a sci-fi point of view.

EDIT: As an amusing side-note, wouldn't it be nice if devs could program the behavior and AI of modules and ships simply by typing text descriptions for them?

"This is a spaceship. It flies in space." - all the code needed to play EVE Online.
"But how?"
"Similarly to 'Let there be light', but with pixels."
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#39 - 2016-09-27 18:03:50 UTC
In the beginning a couple of mad Vikings put spaceships on the Internet.
This made a lot of people very upset and was widely regarded as a bad idea.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Memphis Baas
#40 - 2016-09-27 20:47:27 UTC
But the spaceships aren't on the internet, Ralph, they're in the internet.
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