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Level 2 mission, absolutely killed me.

Author
Tim Aurgnet
JJ Aviation Inc.
#1 - 2016-09-26 20:34:34 UTC
So I played my first level 2 mission, Mission of Mercy. Eve survival labeled it hard, but I figured it wouldn't be impossible. Turns out I was wrong. I fly a Caracal with heavy missile launchers and I shield tank, but within a minute my shield was gone. I thought the Caracal was supposed to be good for level 2 missions, but I must have been wrong.
Is this just an especially difficult mission or am I doing something terribly wrong.

I have the following fitting:
10 MN Afterburner II (why, I don't know, I can't use it because It drains my capacitor)
Kinetic Deflection Field I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster (also not very useful because it will drain off my capacitor and leave me with an extra 10s and no cap to warp with)
Thermal Dissipation Field I
Inception Target Painter (Another thing that may be useful to replace)

Damage Control I
Ballistic Control System I (x3)

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I (x3)

So what am I doing wrong, I know I was probably too close at 15-20km but I still don't think it would have made much difference considering I was only able to destroy 2 ships of the 10+ before I had spent more repairing my ship than the mission would pay out and I gave up. (
Robot Robot
Plate of Beans Incorporated
#2 - 2016-09-26 20:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Robot Robot
There's a lot to learn of course, but give it a little time and you will find level two missions a cakewalk in your Caracal.

A couple of immediate thoughts on your fit:

1. I would replace the Ancillary Shield Booster with a regular shield booster. As you've learned, the ancillary is worse than useless when it's out of charges, and missions take far too long to do on a single reload. By and large, the ancillary shield boosters are a PVP focused module. If you're still having capacitor problems, you could even go with a shield extender and just warp out when your shields get low.

2. I don't fly a lot of missile ships but, for your purposes, I think you'd probably be better off with an Invulnerability Field or a Capacitor Booster (depending on whether you go with a Shield Extender or a Shield Booster) instead of the Target Painter.

3. If your missions have a lot of frigates (which I seem to remember level 2s do), you should consider running Rapid Light Missile Launchers instead of Heavy Missiles. The Heavy Missiles will have a hell of a time trying to hit frigates, and the Rapid Lights will work just fine on both frigates and cruisers (plus no need for a target painter).


I'm sure someone else will come along and correct anything I'm wrong on. Neither missions nor missile boats are really my area of expertise.
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#3 - 2016-09-26 21:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kolmogorow
First of all: No shame to get into trouble with a Level 2 mission as a beginner. Some can be though, and Mercenaries are often among the harder NPCs, that's also the case for higher level missions. It's a good idea to fit a little more tank than gank when you have to fight against them for the first time.

Specifically with your setup the lack of an EM hardener springs into mind. The Mercenary Commanders deal considerable EM damage and without a hardener you have 0% native EM resists on your Caracal's shields. That can bring your shields very quickly down, especially if you don't focus on the Commanders as primary targets and let them shoot for a while. EVE survival isn't always that precise. You can check the exact NPC stats here (Enter "Mercenary" in the Entity Name search box and take a look at the 4 right most columns for the damage distribution an NPCs deals.). Remove the Target Painter for an EM hardener. If you still have problems you can consider to even remove the AB and add a fourth hardener (maybe an Invulnerability Field). You can also try to find named hardener modules on the market with slightly improved resists (if you can't fit T2 hardeners yet).

Regarding missile launchers and shield booster I agree with Robot Robot above. Just keep in mind the you should have enough and the right shield hardeners so that you don't need to run the booster constantly, but can pulse it only in tough situations and when needed. You shouldn't get into cap trouble then.

Good luck with your next try!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2016-09-26 22:31:04 UTC
Psst, buy capacitor charges and load them into the ancillary shield booster.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-09-27 01:49:18 UTC
I agree that is seems that you are probably not using the ancillary SB properly.

Also a fit is only one part of the equation. How you intend to fly the ship matters a lot and really we can't say much about the fit without stating uses. You have to fit the ship how you are going to fly it and fly the ship for how you fit it.

That being said, eve-survival says no aggro on warp in. That tells me that you could potentially use the AB to get some range and fit your ship for more range and use distance to mitigate damage.

Also the advice about double checking the resists is spot on. any time that I start loosing tank faster than I think that I should in a mission I double check damage profiles and my resists.

If you are having cap problems first check your skills. Cap recharge is based on a percentage of total capacitor per time frame. So anything that increases: cap amount, recharge amount or recharge rate will increase you capacitor recharge. Look at your cap skills and any that you don't have trained up to 3 get in your queue. You can also check through shield skills and see if you have any neglected skills that could become a quick pay off for a short train.

Beyond that a PDU ( Power Diagnostic Unit ) increases: Shield recharge, shield amount, cap recharge, cap amount. Oh and I guess that the are called PDS ( Power Diagnostic System ) now. They are a low slot item and can maybe be a better option than the DCU. Also a cap recharger in the mid might help. However from the sounds of it you might be better off with another resist mod.

My first advice would be to try kitting. That is make use of your AB with some range mods.

At this stage of the game, and in my opinion, the best thing that you can do is play around with different fits so that you can learn how stuff works and experience some of the various piloting tactics.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2016-09-27 08:17:17 UTC
Some useful information on the Caracal: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Caracal. In particular, note that the recommended fit for PVE is passively tanked relying on shield power relays and purgers to regenerate the shields. These require no capacitor allowing you to speed tank using your afterburner.

In a difficult mission you can align to a convenient celestial and warp out as soon as your shield alarm goes off. Armor and hull don't last long on a shield tanked ship. You can kill the rats one at a time and warp off to heal - they'll wait for you!
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#7 - 2016-09-27 08:18:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
Had similar problems at first and made two caracals for level 2 missions, one with rapid light missiles and one with heavy missiles and a target painter. I switch ships according to EVE survival. (Bigger rats = bigger guns)


(I stocked up some Caracals anyway before the alphas will probably inflate the prices. Perhaps I fly them myself, perhaps I sell them for profit, but I am quite sure that popular cruisers won't get cheaper in November)
Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#8 - 2016-09-27 09:41:09 UTC
Some missions have overwhelming firepower. Mission of Mercy is one f them. You do not need to destroy every hostile ship in a mission like this, you only need to destroy certain specific ships, and avoid being shot at by all the other ships. In Mission of Mercy the only ships you actually need to destroy to complete the mission are the "Lieutenant" ships, which spawn a little while after all the other hostile ships have spawned.

If you don't have a bookmark to the Eve-Survival site, here it is. http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage

Click on the Mission Index link to get a list of every security mission, a detailed description of what to do in each mission, plus recommendations for the types of damage to use and the types of damage to resist.

Missile ships like the Caracal are very good at shooting while they move. Sitting still in one spot and spamming missiles will work in some missions, but there will be other missions where doing that is actually the worst thing you can do. Shoot while you are moving, don't let hostile ships get close enough to swarm you and overwhelm you, but control your speed so that you don't get too far away from your target or your missiles will never hit it.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-09-27 12:05:15 UTC
All the advice you need has already been stated. But nobody has actually highlighted the main problem. It is the missile type you are firing. There is no L2 mission that needs Heavy Missiles and in fact they are next to useless against the size of rats you are fighting. You should be fitted with Rapid Lights.

Sure the tank and cap can be improved, but you shouldn't need either in an L2 mission. The range of Rapid Lights on a Caracal (with perfect skills) is something like 63 Km. Frankly all you have to do is stay 30 Kms away from the bulk of the rats and they won't do any damage to you, then pop the fast ones that can reach you as they are MWDing in. The only cap you will need is for the AB and should be adequate to permarun it. Sort your overview by distance and just keep popping the closest enemy while burning away.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#10 - 2016-09-27 12:36:07 UTC
Orapid lights have a long reload time you can use regular light launchers instead. I think the caracal still yeilds bonuses to small missiles.
Mama Carebear
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-09-27 13:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mama Carebear
Caldari Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Rapid Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire
10% bonus to Light Missile, Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity


Mission of Mercy was introduced later in the game, I consider it the hardest of the level2 missions.
Don't be ashamed to warp out, multiple times, it's part of the procedure Big smile
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#12 - 2016-09-27 13:58:44 UTC
Just a couple of things to add to the rest.

Damage output is only part of the equation the other part and it is often more important is how well you can apply that damage to a target and for level 2 missions the light missiles are a much better choice. Missile damage is a relatively complex topic for the forums, I suggest you go here and study it.

Damage application plays a critical role in Mission of Mercy, since it has waves that spawn in on a timer. Getting as much of the damage from the current wave killed off before the next one spawns is critical and this is where the poor damage application of the heavy missiles may be hurting you.

Mercenaries are often stated to be thermal and kinetic damage, even EvE Survival falls into this. In reality it is often best to omni tank for mercenaries since many of their ships do high em damage or they are often found in missions in combination with NPC that do em or explosive damage.

Changing ships is another option to consider.
With a 4% per skill level boost to resistances the Moa is another option, although the hybrid turrets (blasters or rail guns) are rather cap hungry so the trade offs may not be worth it and it is not a ship for someone that wants to stay with missiles.

Do you have a friend that can help you?
If not is there a vet in your local area that can help?
Paranoid Loyd
#13 - 2016-09-27 23:56:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
[Caracal, Level2]
Type-D Restrained Shield Power Relay
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System
Crosslink Compact Ballistic Control System

10MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Upgraded Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I
Upgraded Thermal Dissipation Amplifier I
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

If you can't fit both large extenders yet fit one medium and one large.

HMLs are the correct weapon to use for this particular mission as all you need to do is shoot the Lieutenants to complete it, ignore everything else. One of the keys to missioning efficiently is to learn to only shoot what needs to be shot. Killing everything is rarely the most profitable thing to do.

This fit is grossly cap stable and has an effective recharge that is more than sufficient for level 2s, change Shield Amps and missile type as the enemies dictate and consider using rapid light launchers for missions that have a lot of frigates.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-09-28 01:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Vortexo VonBrenner
You want an afterburner. Speed is your friend.

Target painters are good with missiles. Try Mr. Paranoid's fit and perhaps use a target painter instead of the one medium shield booster extender.

Kite them.


EDIT: shield extender not booster, sorry. shield booster is an active module (regenerates your shield faster but uses capacitor energy to do it and you have to turn it on and off manually, often used for pve) whereas shield extender is a passive module (doesn't use your capacitor to regenerates shield hitpoints but rather just gives you a "block" of hitpoints up front). Extenders are not vulnerable to anti-capacitor warfare [energy neutralizers and such] and are always "on" so are often used for pvp.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#15 - 2016-09-28 05:07:27 UTC
Why not just get some help for that mission, there are only a few you would need help with.
As mentioned above, use a normal shield booster, drop the TP and try with light missiles.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#16 - 2016-09-28 08:02:41 UTC
Vortexo VonBrenner wrote:
You want an afterburner. Speed is your friend.

Target painters are good with missiles. Try Mr. Paranoid's fit and perhaps use a target painter instead of the one medium shield booster.

Kite them.


^^ This. I use my targetpainter a lot becaue I still have medicore targeting and missle skills.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#17 - 2016-09-28 13:35:32 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
HMLs are the correct weapon to use for this particular mission as all you need to do is shoot the Lieutenants to complete it, ignore everything else. One of the keys to missioning efficiently is to learn to only shoot what needs to be shot. Killing everything is rarely the most profitable thing to do.

Why do these responses always come back to max ISK? Especially when dealing with a new player that is having trouble with the mission to start with.

Wondering when was the last time you ran this mission with a new and low SP character in an all T1 fit ship?
Ignoring everything but the lieutenants in this mission means you have to tank about 50% of the applied damage for each wave, and the waves spawn on a timer so that damage continues to build, by time that last lieutenant spawns that applied damage can and often does overwhelm the T1 tanking ability of many low SP characters. All by itself this simple fact makes the blitz style for this mission very difficult for new players. And no speed tanking is not really an option either, although it does help. Actual damage spread depends on the spawns but on average 50% of the damage in this mission comes from the elite frigates and trying to speed tank them with a low SP character in a T1 fit cruiser that is not cap stable simply does not end well.
Paranoid Loyd
#18 - 2016-09-28 16:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
When I ran missions it was not for fun, it was to make isk. Therefore I answer the question with that in mind. To each his own, I don't judge your play style, why are you judging mine?

I may be out of touch with whether or not that fit is sufficient for someone with very low skills but what I can tell you with absolute certainty is his chances of success using that fit and strategy as opposed to the one he is using are infinitely higher. You can nitpick my advice all you want but I am confident it will work fine. Why don't you prove me wrong since you are the naysayer?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!