EVE General Discussion

I believe people have already pointed out it worked both ways - I know all my targets added me to their watch lists and tried to watch out when I was online.

It wasn't one-sided - everyone had it and everyone used it.

The leading proposal I've seen to replace the watch list was adding online/offline status to locator agent results - I thought you were aware of that - that is why I brought up that comparison. People keep calling it "free" and "instant".

Also you do get the results pretty close to instantly - and you can spam the button >_>

I can't see an issue with a locator agent knowing if you are on or offline.

If they know where you are they should be able to discern that much.

Afterall, the targets know you're coming, and have local, if they aren't checking who's about...that's unlucky.

Hardly, its what everyone is complaining about.



Where did that idiocy come from? They still have to undock, they just don't want to spend all of their time chasing around targets that don't exist.



Its been an issue since CCP announced the removal of watchlists.

So you are advocating using a workaround mechanic that CCP doesn't like and is intending to remove.

What then?

Lets make an example using some numbers:

I got 200 Wartargets I got a contract on, to track and kill when possible. Say I did some research and maybe half may be active in a given timezone, so I run 100 Locators on these (and that is a ridiculous numbers, almost no one got that many) which will take a few hours.

As my Locate results come in, I got to fly to, say 75 different star systems to see if they are there and online. If I don't see them in Local (which will be, say, roughly over 95% of the time), I need to run more Locators, hopefully using local L1 or L2 that are cheap and quick, to find out if they are still there and thus determine if they are offline.

That is 400-600 minutes of L3 and L4 Locator agents, not counting 15 to 30 minutes of cooldown between uses.

Add an average of 20 jumps/ target, say your scout is using a regular CoVops, so that it is a 15 minute trip/Located target, just to get there.

15min X 75 systems where these 100 targets were Located. Maths says 1125 minutes of scouting. Can be divided/number of scouts you are using.

That is using the actual system with no Watchlist.

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With the old Watchlist, you only ran Locators on the Online targets on said Watchlist, so around. 5-10 people.

That is 20-40 minutes of Locator time + 75-150 minutes of scouting (divided/number of scouts).

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With the proposed change to Locator Agents telling you if the target is online, you still spend the 400-600 minutes of Locate time, but at least you cut 95% of the time lost scouting offline targets.

There is the answer to your question: AFK players weren't an issue because you only spent maybe 2-3 hours to find and watch them a bit and see if AFK or active, instead of 18 hours chasing offline players.

Edit: Emphasis on 18 hours. And that is why almost nobody hunts anymore.

So in this example you've chosen to go to war with a corp who all play in completely different locations? Sounds like they successfully beat wardeccers.

Most corps will hang out in given areas, once you know where they hang out you go to that area to hunt targets. You can use locators if you're looking for specific targets but if you're intel is so bad you're having to run 100 locator agents, that's your own fault.

Potentially, but then if I was a wardec target I'd absolutely get as many alts in corp sitting all over hell online but inactive all day and you'd be back to the problem. The thing is, you should need to go out to hunt, not just sit in a station firing off requests from alts. That said, I accept the idea of allowing locator agents to give information on whether the player is online as a fair compromise. I've read Ralph's proposal and that seems pretty good. He should probably put a more descriptive link than "click me"

I don't particularly like the idea of the locator agent knowing online/offline status, for the same reason I don't like the AFK flag for cloaking outlined here:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6637964#post6637964

In the alternate reality that is New Eden, our characters represent real, living beings. They are always present in the cluster and locator agents know nothing about us as players. They only know about our characters and that's what they look for.

An online/offline indicator breaks the concept that Eve is real by reaching out to say something about us as players.

So for me, that's kind of immersion breaking.

Perhaps something else, that indicates something about our character, but not an online/offline flag about us as players.

Just my 0.02

This was an extreme example. Ofc when we get contracts the client would usually hand us some intel and it is no that hard to figure out a couple of place where they hang out, usually around Citadels or POS, or out of the way mining/mission systems, low/hisec entry points.

However as Ralf point out, WT behavior will change/stop playing and some of them will go hide somewhere else to play quitely, all of which is fine. Realistically, as per the example, you still have to run a good percentage of those 100 Locators to see if the targets have in fact decided to go to ground and stay logged off, so that point is very real - though the scouting time can effectively be cut a lot by observing their hangouts while running the Locators.

Like I said, this was an extreme example of what can happen on a 200 men corp. However, multiply that by a few more contracts and burnout happen.

Presently I am using the exact method you described to find some handfuls of specific targets when I get the time, but mostly, today's 'hunting' is just roaming around hoping to catch someone, dedicated, directed hunting is mostly dead.

About filling the corp with alts that are left online, yeah, that would be smart trolling and exhausting for the Wardec corp to deal with. Some WT do, though mostly they just let their usual character logged in and AFK: tthat behaviour become kinda obvious afer a couple days of observing. After that you just have to come in from time to time to see if that behaviour changed.

But rolling new alts in corp and scatter them all over? Never seen it happen, and that is many years of on and off Hisec mercing experience. Good for those that would try do it, but to be fair it takes a lot of effort and most won't. Much easier to drop corp and laugh at you.

I'm not sure if it's lore as such. Maybe it is, but each to their own.

Why introduce a new mechanic unlike any other in the game - there is currently no mechanic that specifically indicates anything about us as players - if there is an alternate way that fits with the existing basis of the game's design?


TBH, I'd go further then that to something like:

'Your scumbag has been found.

He last docked/jumped gate/set a market order/etc. in <\[system/station/etc.], XX:XX:XX h:m:s ago."

Whatever the last logged activity of the character was, just report that. It keeps the focus on the characters, not us as players; and allows for interpretation of the information, which is more interesting than simply "offline/gone to ground/etc." which all mean the same thing no matter how it's worded.

That may be going too far, but the current system isn't working. I miss the BAW guys and other hunters that are largely offline because CCP unintentionally/intentionally (I have no clue) removed an important part of their play without giving them something in return.

While we have lived in an 'adapt or die' environment for a long time, the optimal adaption isn't that great for anyone. Something needs to change, but that doesn't mean it has to break how the game has largely been designed for 13 years.