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The pointlessness of corps requesting full APIs
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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-09-20 12:53:21 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:


How you can play this game on 1 account, even in higsec it is hard.


It's quite easy actually. I've been doing it since 2012 and have a decent 49% solo killboard to show for it. The idea that you HAVE to have mutliple accounts to achieve anything is ridiculous, an invention by players who don't want to make friends, or are otherwise misinformed on aspects of the game.

OP, there are many examples of successful corp destructions, takeovers, assassinations, and other such things that have taken place due to corps NOT checking full API's, which could have been averted by such a check. This is a case of people who have been here for a while absolutely do know better. At the end of the day though, if you can't or won't meet a corp's prerequisites for joining, regardless of what they are (within the limits of the TOS) then tough bikkies, you can't join, it's that simple.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#22 - 2016-09-20 13:11:56 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Simple : If you don't have nothing to hide - why are you not willing to give full api ?
Api itself don't show much if you care about hiding something. How you can play this game on 1 account, even in higsec it is hard.
Hard? You don't like hard games? When does multiple accounts become "we" play EVE? 2? 12? 32??

I once (with my little brother) watched a barn full of lambs running in this massive group of mini-wool around in a continuous oval - there were so many lambs there was no break in their numbers on the floor - one continuous oval of lambs running counter clockwise on this barn floor.

Every now and then, one would jump. As there was nothing on the floor but...them....there was nothing to jump OVER, but be that as it may every now and then one WOULD jump. Immediately, the lamb behind that one jumped at the same spot, then all that followed jumped at the same spot creating a little wave at this spot where this one lamp jumped.

That wave persisted till the original lamb that jumped ran back over the same spot and didn't jump. Then the wave would flatten out ... until another lamb, a little later, jumped over another spot...where there was nothing to jump over. As long as you wanted to stand there, you could watch them do this. . . one jumps, the rest have to jump because the one did . . . just in case there MIGHT be something there . . . even though there never was.

Damndest thing about it was, it reminded me of people. API huh? Right.




Whatever you've been smoking lately. Stop.
Lacori
Doomheim
#23 - 2016-09-20 13:12:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I've seen this topic before , and it still makes no sense.

If you don't like giving your full api key to a corp, don't join a corp that asks for it. Make your own corp/alliance and make it a rule to not ask for API keys. Yes it's really that simple.

No one owes you entry into their corp (just like you wouldn't owe anyone entry into yours). I have 4 accounts and I don't mind giving out full api keys, if it somehow bothered me in an "oh, mah pixel privacy rights!" kind of way I wouldn't, but it doesn't because that would be stupid.


But what if I want to join a corp and don't want to be CEO, or don't want to handle recruiting?

Corps asking for APIs started in the big leagues, and who can blame them?

That made sense. And they could afford to be picky.

But just like the example someone posted about sheep, it's trickled down to the lower ranks, hell even start up corps have these requirements. But for them it's like I said it was, they've read about big alliances with sov so they want to 'pretend' to be the 'big ceo/fleetmaster/epeen on the block'. I've seen it with my own eyes, it's the same crap some 5-day-old CEO gives you when they get wardecced and pretend to be on top of the situation ("Remain docked, people. At least until I pay them off. Or something.")

Your advice is useless. "No one is making you yada yada, if you don't like it then you can always...."

The problem is these corps that have these requirements are their own worst enemy. You join a carebear corp as PVP backup, to guard mining fleets, etc. You ARE what they need, but their own fake bureaucracy gets in their way.

"Oh noes, this other toon of yours GANKED someone five years ago. No, I'm afraid that's not what [insert 5 day old corp here] is all about. Sorry. Our long-established (since about 10am today) rules prevent us accepting you."

So they want some virginal whiter-than-white character to help them out with the pew they can't do. Well it just doesn't work on Eve that way. You think someone is gonna come along with all the PVP skills and experience that comes with SOE arcs? Think again. We get this way through hard graft, and a lot of it you won't like. You won't like the buddies we used to fly with, or the things we used to do.

And on top of that, me joining your corp means I can't keep in touch with people or give old friends a bit of ISK now and then. You see EVERYTHING. Because once the big boys started wanting FULL APIs, nothing else would do for the 2-man corps either.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#24 - 2016-09-20 13:16:09 UTC
Lacori wrote:

But what if I want to join a corp and don't want to be CEO, or don't want to handle recruiting?


Found your problem and highlighted. What you want is fine when you own something, or have paid for something.

You are asking other people to let you into something they own/run. You play by their rules, or you go do your own thing. You don't get a third choice.

Quote:

Corps asking for APIs started in the big leagues, and who can blame them?

That made sense. And they could afford to be picky.

But just like the example someone posted about sheep, it's trickled down to the lower ranks, hell even start up corps have these requirements. But for them it's like I said it was, they've read about big alliances with sov so they want to 'pretend' to be the 'big ceo/fleetmaster/epeen on the block'. I've seen it with my own eyes, it's the same crap some 5-day-old CEO gives you when they get wardecced and pretend to be on top of the situation ("Remain docked, people. At least until I pay them off. Or something.")

Your advice is useless. "No one is making you yada yada, if you don't like it then you can always...."

The problem is these corps that have these requirements are their own worst enemy. You join a carebear corp as PVP backup, to guard mining fleets, etc. You ARE what they need, but their own fake bureaucracy gets in their way.

"Oh noes, this other toon of yours GANKED someone five years ago. No, I'm afraid that's not what [insert 5 day old corp here] is all about. Sorry. Our long-established (since about 10am today) rules prevent us accepting you."

So they want some virginal whiter-than-white character to help them out with the pew they can't do. Well it just doesn't work on Eve that way. You think someone is gonna come along with all the PVP skills and experience that comes with SOE arcs? Think again. We get this way through hard graft, and a lot of it you won't like. You won't like the buddies we used to fly with, or the things we used to do.

And on top of that, me joining your corp means I can't keep in touch with people or give old friends a bit of ISK now and then. You see EVERYTHING. Because once the big boys started wanting FULL APIs, nothing else would do for the 2-man corps either.



Which means don't join that corp then.

Why is this hard to understand?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-09-20 13:33:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Which means don't join that corp then.

Why is this hard to understand?


But mah sense of entitlement!

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-09-20 13:36:05 UTC
Lacori wrote:

The problem is these corps that have these requirements are their own worst enemy.


And most of them fail because of it. I fail to see why that's your problem, or my problem, or CCP's problem. If they can't learn from their own mistakes, they don't deserve to be handed success on a plate.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-09-20 13:39:58 UTC
Lacori wrote:
me joining your corp means I can't keep in touch with people or give old friends a bit of ISK now and then.


thats just your own paranoia and perception of an issue that isnt even an issue

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-09-20 13:40:15 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-09-20 13:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2016-09-20 13:51:47 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell


+1

My employer drugs tests, and a facebook post that "brings discredit upon the Department" can get me fired etc.

What's funny is how McVain revealed the actual issue: people want Government CCP intervention in something that is simply a personal matter, rather than those persons simply minding their own F'ing business clicking a button to make their own corp that they can run as they see fit.

As in EVE, so IRL.
Fionna Da'gere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-09-20 13:54:48 UTC
Lacori wrote:


Your advice is useless. "No one is making you yada yada, if you don't like it then you can always...."

The problem is these corps that have these requirements are their own worst enemy. You join a carebear corp as PVP backup, to guard mining fleets, etc. You ARE what they need, but their own fake bureaucracy gets in their way.

"Oh noes, this other toon of yours GANKED someone five years ago. No, I'm afraid that's not what [insert 5 day old corp here] is all about. Sorry. Our long-established (since about 10am today) rules prevent us accepting you."

So they want some virginal whiter-than-white character to help them out with the pew they can't do. Well it just doesn't work on Eve that way. You think someone is gonna come along with all the PVP skills and experience that comes with SOE arcs? Think again. We get this way through hard graft, and a lot of it you won't like. You won't like the buddies we used to fly with, or the things we used to do.


Why the hell would you want to join a corp like that?

Also, I don't think anyone wants full APIs with unlimited expirys on them- pretty sure people just want to check you out and then get on with their game.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#32 - 2016-09-20 13:56:20 UTC
tl:dr version

A bank is requiring me to show them an ID, but why, it's so easily forged, it's useless!
Start my own bank that doesn't require an ID? Nono that's too much work, let someone else do it.

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Lacori
Doomheim
#33 - 2016-09-20 14:25:49 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell


These credit checks do not show:

> What I do in my spare time, when I'm not working (unless you're dumb enough to give them full access to your social media profiles)
> Who my friends outside of work are (again see above re. social media)
> My email communications with others
> My bank transactions (if I withdraw money, there's no way to see where it goes to)

All of these are revealed in Full API on Eve.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#34 - 2016-09-20 14:28:12 UTC
Lacori wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell


These credit checks do not show:

> What I do in my spare time, when I'm not working (unless you're dumb enough to give them full access to your social media profiles)
> Who my friends outside of work are (again see above re. social media)
> My email communications with others
> My bank transactions (if I withdraw money, there's no way to see where it goes to)

All of these are revealed in Full API on Eve.


You obviously have never applied for a job with the Federal Government of my country. I have and they asked questions my grand parents have long forgotten.

Think of EVE corps are government jobs if they helps.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-09-20 14:29:56 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


If you think a prospective employer in this day and age doesn't run at least a google search on you for public information, you're nuts.

And no, I would not give an employer (current or prospective) access to my email, facebook, or twitter. If that was a requirement, I would politely refuse, and if they were unwilling to look past that, then yes, I would refuse the opportunity. Some of the email I have is , in fact, bound by NDAs that I have signed, so providing that access would actually put me in breach of contract.

But as I work in one of the most heavily regulated industries in the world and that's never come up once in nearly twenty years, I really don't see that as a problem.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-09-20 14:31:43 UTC
Lacori wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell


These credit checks do not show:

> What I do in my spare time, when I'm not working (unless you're dumb enough to give them full access to your social media profiles)
> Who my friends outside of work are (again see above re. social media)
> My email communications with others
> My bank transactions (if I withdraw money, there's no way to see where it goes to)

All of these are revealed in Full API on Eve.


you should try and get a job with gchq in the uk Shocked

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Edhelbrien
Borrage Lane Associates
#37 - 2016-09-20 14:35:21 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Lacori wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
It's not rocket science

If a corporation asks for information you don't wish to give them, then don't give it to them. You're in no way required to give them a single shred of information.

So when you are applying for a job you are comfortable when they ask for your private E-Mail, Facebook, twitter account? Of cause you can deny it and just skip the Job and the next and the next.
Every PO in a firm would love this, so why don't they do it? Law is prohibiting it! Same for Eve: the Corps like to but...here it's up to CCP.


plenty of employers do credit checks for jobs these days, and social media, references, cv's are checked aswell


These credit checks do not show:

> What I do in my spare time, when I'm not working (unless you're dumb enough to give them full access to your social media profiles)
> Who my friends outside of work are (again see above re. social media)
> My email communications with others
> My bank transactions (if I withdraw money, there's no way to see where it goes to)

All of these are revealed in Full API on Eve.


you should try and get a job with gchq in the uk Shocked


It would be interesting to see an Eve version of "Developed Vetting".
Lacori
Doomheim
#38 - 2016-09-20 14:47:34 UTC
Elenahina wrote:


If you think a prospective employer in this day and age doesn't run at least a google search on you for public information, you're nuts.



But it's like the same thing I say to carebears. If you haven't made the effort to secure things, then of course they'll find things on you.

Does everything in life have to involve hand-holding?
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#39 - 2016-09-20 15:00:21 UTC
I have one account.
A full API will expose literally everything I do in the game.

The first corp which tried to recruit me tried to rush me through the recruitment process, which naturally included an API key.
I was the type to look and see exactly what I was handing over.
You can see how well the recruitment went :)

This was before I had the personal policy of "Try to come up with 101 ways to make a corp recruiter run away screaming."

A signature :o
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#40 - 2016-09-20 15:18:31 UTC
Our small corp's director level members (including myself) all have RL connections to each other, work colleague, friends over 10 years, relatives, relatively new friend but in same local town, have been gaming together online across multiple games even before EVE, etc.

We don't care about API, because WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!!!

Lol.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!