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Missions & Complexes

 
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Has anyone calculated the number of missions required to go L1->L2...

Author
Forceful Peacekeeper
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-09-08 17:37:57 UTC
Has anyone calculated the number of missions that have to be run to go from each agent level to the next?

Is it even possible? Are there ballpark numbers?

I've done a bit of googling, but haven't had much luck. :/

-Forceful
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2016-09-08 18:36:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
It's somewhat possible but non-trivial. I have a spreadsheet (which I've never bothered to make use-friendly) that can basically work out how many standings increases of a certain size are required to get to a certain standings level, but since missions give different increases there's no general solution.

Edit: if you have a specific start point, specific end point, and an average standings increase in mind I'd be glad to give you a number. Just let me know.
Forceful Peacekeeper
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2016-09-08 18:45:24 UTC
That's what I suspected. Do you know of anywhere that documents the standing increases for missions? I don't even have a ballpark idea lol.

Thanks!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#4 - 2016-09-08 18:47:40 UTC
Forceful Peacekeeper wrote:
That's what I suspected. Do you know of anywhere that documents the standing increases for missions? I don't even have a ballpark idea lol.

Thanks!


Standings increase is calculated as:

(10-current standings)*increase + current standings more or less. So it asymptotically approaches 10 but slows down significantly the closer you get.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-09-09 11:14:10 UTC
it is impossible to do.
what makes it complicated, is that several things affect the standings increase per mission - your skills and system security status are the two that I know of.
what makes it impossible (or pretty much useless), is that missions provide different standings increase. I can only assume it is linearly dependent on mission LP reward, and from experience for same level missions it can be different by a factor of 5 or more. so the number of missions needed really depend on your luck. does it help if the ball park is 10 to 50? or 20 to 100?
Just train up your social skills, find a lower security level system and run the missions.
another thing that may help - storyline missions, in addition to faction standing, give a significant boost to corp standing as well. so run 15 missions from the system of your choice, then for the 16th go to a system with storyline agent of the corporation you want (or a station if there are more than 1 storyline agent in that system) and do the 16th mission there. the kind of mission doesnt matter (security, distribution, etc.), only level.
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-09-09 11:19:21 UTC
Forceful Peacekeeper wrote:
That's what I suspected. Do you know of anywhere that documents the standing increases for missions? I don't even have a ballpark idea lol.

Thanks!


dont worry about it. unless you ruined your faction standings, with Connections skill you faction standing should be over 1, which will give you access to level 2 missions already.
if you did all beginner mission chains and then the Systers arc, then you may even have access to level 3 missions.
I recently decided to change my mission hub and can tell you that raising corp standing from 0 to 5 doing level 3 missions in 0.5 security system can be done in 1 day on a weekend, or 2 days if you have less time.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2016-09-09 14:31:46 UTC
Bagatur I wrote:
it is impossible to do.

Quite the contrary it is indeed possible to calculate how many missions it would take to move up one level. The real question is would it be worth the time invested to do it when you could spend that time running mission or what ever to actually get to the next level.

OP if you check your standings, then go run 10 missions and check them again then do the math to arrive at an average increase per mission. From there simple math will give you an approximate number of missions you will need to fly to get to the next level.

If you want to move up more quickly finding a vet that can run level 4's for NPC and fleeting up with them while they run them helps as well.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-09-09 14:51:24 UTC
My mission history

Tutorial Missions
Career Agent Missions
Blood Stained Stars
1 Level 1 Mission

then i did a few Level 2 missions
then i joined a WH corp
then i did a bunch of Level 3-4's

Having the Connections skill definitely reduced the number of missions required
Whilst L4's can be soloed easily, joining corp members on them gets you standings increases if they 'share'


Yes you can push through the standings barriers fairly quickly, you can even sidestep them completely by missioning with another person, but if you're not ready for the higher tier missions then there's little point in doing so.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-09-10 08:41:06 UTC
As others have stated, it's very difficult to say how many missions are required to advance to the next level of Agent. There's just too many variables.

First there's various types of missions available.

Someone who does Distribution missions will complete them much quicker than someone doing Security or Mining missions but will end up doing more missions due to the low amount of standing gained for completing those missions. However they will also get more Storyline mission offers in the process. If they're actually looking to gain Faction standing, they will achieve it much quicker than the players doing Security or Mining missions.

Secondly, each mission gives a different amount of standing for completion. According to CCP, a while ago they changed the game mechanics so that the same mission would not be offered twice in a row. However as your standings go up and due to the agents having a small pool of missions available, you'll get the same missions offered on a regular basis.

Third, each level trained in Social skill will increase the amount of standing gained for completing agents missions. If you also add the Connections skill which increases the amount of current positive standing, you could easily advance up in agent levels very quickly.

Best advice is to train up Social and Connections skills and do some missions. By the time you complete your first Storyline mission (offered after completing 16 same level missions for the same Faction), you should be able to advance up no problem.


DMC
Bagatur I
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-09-13 13:19:09 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
it is impossible to do.

Quite the contrary it is indeed possible to calculate how many missions it would take to move up one level. The real question is would it be worth the time invested to do it when you could spend that time running mission or what ever to actually get to the next level.

OP if you check your standings, then go run 10 missions and check them again then do the math to arrive at an average increase per mission. From there simple math will give you an approximate number of missions you will need to fly to get to the next level.

If you want to move up more quickly finding a vet that can run level 4's for NPC and fleeting up with them while they run them helps as well.


no, you cannot "calculate how many missions it would take". at best, you can give an estimate. and the real question is whether that estimate is of any use.

the average increase per mission is pointless, because for the same mission, the absolute standing increase will get progressively smaller.
and even if it didnt, there are quite a bit more than 10 missions altogether, with standings % increase differing by up to a factor of 5. a sample of 10 missions will tell you pretty much nothing. and if you have to run missions to see how many you need, that kind of defeats the purpose of the TS's question.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#11 - 2016-09-14 02:01:39 UTC
Like others have said there are a ton of variables in the equation to get the number of missions.

Fastest way I know of is Connections 3 or 4, 4 is better, then do one COSMOS, TAG/Data Center mission or Corporate mission which will get you L2 of either all factions you ran the COSMOS/TAG/Data Center for or for the corp you ran for. Then run L2 couriers til you hit L3, they are boring but well worth it and fast if you fit and fly right. Then its to blitz L3 security missions till L4.

I can do this in a few days to L4 for any corp that way. Yes this is daily time intensive. If you dont want to run missions that long itll take you about a week or two to do still.

Social Skill L4 or 5 helps a lot too. So train those two skills first no matter what you do mission wise.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#12 - 2016-09-19 02:21:19 UTC
I am running a pre-November alpha toon with the limited social skills already trained up but is still skilling (fully trained before November). He is in Simela and running SoE missions in a 0.5 system (if you don't know, one station has a L1, L2 and L3 agent there).

It took 9 L1 missions to get the standing to be able to start L2 missions for them.

I am keeping track of how many L2 missions is required to get to L3 with the limited social skills, but I think it is also determined on what missions they give you. They are not all equal...
Khanid Voltar
#13 - 2016-09-24 12:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanid Voltar
Somewhat related:

For anyone wondering how many L1's it will take to get a neg rep npc corp back to above -1.9 (so you can use your high faction standing to pull L4's again) I did it this last week.

System security seems to have no bearing on standings gains - certainly none for the FW missions which were collected in a range of sys security from 0.1 to 0.6. More difficult to tell with the Empire Corp because all missions were accepted in same system (0.8) but as they seemed to cap out at the same higher limit I am leaning towards not. Yes sys sec status definitely affects rewards, but not it seems standings increases.

This was done with Social/Diplomacy already to 5.

NPC Empire Corp (start point -9.5) - approx 48 L1 missions.

NPC FW Corp (start point -8.1) - approx 18 L1 missions.

Target point for both approx -4.9 (Diplomacy 5 takes it the rest of the way to -1.9)

Quite a lot less than I was expecting, although the Empire Corp did start to get a bit laborious it took about 3 hours of consistent play in a system with two L1 agents in it. Whereas FW took about the same amount of time including mission pickups, but was quite a bit more interesting so seemed less.

Also, the FW L1's were all fairly high in standings bonuses - 0.8% - 1.3% per mission.

The NPC corp increases seemed to top out at the same maximum, but there were a lot more missions with lower standings gains in the pool from which they were selected - so about 0.2% - 1.3% per mission.

The disparity could be that I knew which FW L1's to cherry pick (assassination and structure kills) whereas I couldn't really cherry pick with the Empire NPC corp because the mission pool was so much bigger and there isn't a lot of info out there about how to do L1's in order to be able to effectively blitz without doing an awful lot of (time-consuming) research. So instead I just avoided any obvious courier missions.

Hope that helps someone.

[edit] also don't be afraid to decline standings more than ever 4 hours. It has a negligible effect on your (already high) faction standings and only significantly effects corp and agent standing. But you are already confined to using L1's anyway. And the standing hit for declining (at around 0.5%) when you already have neg standing to the corp will effect it less than a positive standings bonus from completing the subsequent mission, because you are closer to -10 than +10 for that specific npc corp.
Khanid Voltar
#14 - 2016-09-24 12:50:56 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Forceful Peacekeeper wrote:
That's what I suspected. Do you know of anywhere that documents the standing increases for missions? I don't even have a ballpark idea lol.

Thanks!


Standings increase is calculated as:

(10-current standings)*increase + current standings more or less. So it asymptotically approaches 10 but slows down significantly the closer you get.


Is it the same but reversed for standings decreases?

So (-10 + current standings) * decrease - current standings ?

Or is it the same formula as you posted, except substituting the increase for a decrease?

Feels like -10 should be in there somewhere.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2016-09-24 13:59:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Bagatur I wrote:
no, you cannot "calculate how many missions it would take". at best, you can give an estimate. and the real question is whether that estimate is of any use.

I hope you are kidding otherwise you simply have no clue what you are talking about.

The game uses math formula to calculate standings gains, even CCP has published many articles on how this works, just one of them can be found here. With the formula in hand it is an easy although somewhat time consuming process to set up a spread sheet, or even write a program that can predict to the exact mission that you would advance to the next level. The issue here as I stated in my first post is not CAN this be done, it is simply why bother. In the time needed ot set up the spread sheet or write the program you could easily be at the next mission level and working on the next one in line.
Khanid Voltar
#16 - 2016-09-24 14:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanid Voltar
Donnachadh wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
no, you cannot "calculate how many missions it would take". at best, you can give an estimate. and the real question is whether that estimate is of any use.

I hope you are kidding otherwise you simply have no clue what you are talking about.

The game uses math formula to calculate standings gains, even CCP has published many articles on how this works, just one of them can be found here. With the formula in hand it is an easy although somewhat time consuming process to set up a spread sheet, or even write a program that can predict to the exact mission that you would advance to the next level. The issue here as I stated in my first post is not CAN this be done, it is simply why bother. In the time needed ot set up the spread sheet or write the program you could easily be at the next mission level and working on the next one in line.


I hate to be disagreeable, but you cannot "write a program that can predict to the exact mission that you would advance to the next level". if you could, someone would have already written one.

this is because

a) different missions give different standings bonuses &

b) you cannot predict which mission you will be offered

So there are too many dynamic variables to simply chuck it all into a spreadsheet and get an exact answer, all you can get is an estimate (which was what the guy you were replying to was saying).

[edit] you could do a statistical analysis if you had a large enough pool to get accurate figures from, but as is often said, statistics only predicts what is likely to happen, and not what will actually happen. So again, an estimate rather than an exact figure. With the range of mission standings bonuses so high (0.2% - 1.3% from my straw sample) I would suggest the confidence intervals would be fairly wide, making it a poor predictor for Real World use. It would be better for FW (0.8% - 1.3%) although still not exact, which was the point you were making.

[edit2] You could work it out exactly if you removed L1 missions from the mix (because they are random) and just stuck to static missions that are the same for everyone, eg starter agents, epic agents etc. But at that point is it really a counter of "how many L1 missions", considering that to gain an accurate number we'll have had to remove the L1 missions from the calculations?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-09-25 00:35:34 UTC
Khanid Voltar wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Bagatur I wrote:
no, you cannot "calculate how many missions it would take". at best, you can give an estimate. and the real question is whether that estimate is of any use.

I hope you are kidding otherwise you simply have no clue what you are talking about.

The game uses math formula to calculate standings gains, even CCP has published many articles on how this works, just one of them can be found here. With the formula in hand it is an easy although somewhat time consuming process to set up a spread sheet, or even write a program that can predict to the exact mission that you would advance to the next level. The issue here as I stated in my first post is not CAN this be done, it is simply why bother. In the time needed ot set up the spread sheet or write the program you could easily be at the next mission level and working on the next one in line.


I hate to be disagreeable, but you cannot "write a program that can predict to the exact mission that you would advance to the next level". if you could, someone would have already written one.

I have to agree with Khanid Voltar.

There's way too many variables involved to actually predict how many missions it would take to advance up to next Agent level.



DMC