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Protocol query: on captured SKINs

Author
Loai Qerl
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2016-09-17 14:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Loai Qerl
Arrendis wrote:
Yes, but that logic would then raise the question of why Blood Raider ships—built off blueprints recovered from their wrecks—wouldn't hold the same meaning.



I see what you mean, I think, but in the case of building a Blooder ship one isn't taking advantage of salvage so clearly--it's making new things, increasing the total number of Blooder ships unnecessarily. With the effort and material involved in that, saying that you're doing so out of spite doesn't sound half as convincing.

Turning one's ship into an unlovely peeled tuber, Purist-style, doesn't increase Purist anything. A Purist skin in the coronation fleet is a proud announcement of two things: that the Empress's right to the throne is manifestly pure, and that there are lots of frozen bits in space that are no longer able to contend otherwise.

It also announces the capsuleer has awful taste, though. I'm serious. Matte white. Fly pretty for our new Empress, pilots? Please?
Stig Elendil
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-09-17 14:08:04 UTC
I'm intrigued by this big event for Amarr (and also on another part to the other states as it can change some political relations), the coronation of Empress Catiz I and specificaly by those so called "Pure" that are opposing her. Rituals have been respected but some still think she has no rights to become Empress. I won't speculate on this but what is surprising me is the importance of this movement.
When you travel in New Eden you find their groups everywhere. And most of all you find them also in Anoïkis. This group shouldn't be taken lightly. It should be a huge concern and interrogation for everybody to see how widespread this group and others in our systems are taking so much importance in so short time periods.
On a more practical concern here, I would have some interrogations about the purpose of using the skins of this group during the coronation. In theory i don't see any restreint on it but WHAT IF during the coronation a fight is engaged between "Pures" and Guards and that the only way to recognize them is by their skin colors ? People wearing those colors, in celebration of the Empress, could be shot at also just because of the colors they are wearing. This could drive to a total mess up in the eventuality of a huge fight. I can just hope this wouldn't be the case and I will follow the coronation with great interest.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2016-09-17 15:21:22 UTC
Stig Elendil wrote:
In theory i don't see any restreint on it but WHAT IF during the coronation a fight is engaged between "Pures" and Guards and that the only way to recognize them is by their skin colors ? People wearing those colors, in celebration of the Empress, could be shot at also just because of the colors they are wearing. This could drive to a total mess up in the eventuality of a huge fight. I can just hope this wouldn't be the case and I will follow the coronation with great interest.


Pragmatically, pilot, if we're stuck identifying people purely by their SKINs, as opposed to IFF and ID tags, we've really got a problem. Capsuleers are normally really easy to identify as such, at least to each other.

If the "Purity" rebels managed to scramble everybody's pilot and ship registries like that, the logical thing would be to blend in with the (probably far more numerous) regular military forces appearing in Imperial Navy cream and gold. If you can really play that kind of elaborate trick, why would you not come in at least partially under a false flag?

Indira Harashani
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#24 - 2016-09-17 15:42:42 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Indira Harashani wrote:
Not necessarily true.

Most of those nanocoating licenses are only available for primary ownership through the Noble Exchange's successor outlet. Not through the destruction of Blood Raiders' or Equilibrium's assets.


Except that I'll point out you're talking about the nanocoatings, I'm talking about the hulls themselves.

I missed that, my apologies - though I don't see how that's a good analogy to the initial question regarding nanocoatings. Those blueprints and pre-assembled hulls can also be purchased directly from their manufacturers by those unscrupulous enough to work with them. They are as much a "I killed them for this" thing as they are a "I worked for them and was rewarded with this" thing and a "someone else did the hard/dirty work for me to use this" thing.

I'm far more practical than many of my compatriots, especially those within PIE. Our ships are a tool like any other. There is an optimal tool for every job, whether it's gutting and preparing a fish or engaging in combat against other capsuleers. Sometimes that optimal tool is something designed and/or built by someone from outside of the Empire. Sometimes the Empire doesn't even offer a halfway-optimal (or useful) tool for the job.

I would rather, by picking the optimal tool for it, do the job correctly, efficiently, and well. If that means flying a ship designed by heretics, it's no goop out of my pod. Or to put it more simply, I prefer having a bigger toolshed to work with.

Lady Indira Harashani

Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV

Stig Elendil
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-09-17 15:47:50 UTC
I admit in theory identification shouldn't be a problem but we are all aware of bombings or killings that happened to fleets that were theoricaly allied and being tagged accordingly. Friendly fire isn't rare because of wrong identification.
And you're correct to point me that "Purity" rebels could simply disguise and come that way.
In anyway isn't it a real security problem ? And thanks for enlightening me on this.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2016-09-17 16:14:27 UTC
Stig Elendil wrote:
I admit in theory identification shouldn't be a problem but we are all aware of bombings or killings that happened to fleets that were theoricaly allied and being tagged accordingly. Friendly fire isn't rare because of wrong identification.
And you're correct to point me that "Purity" rebels could simply disguise and come that way.
In anyway isn't it a real security problem ? And thanks for enlightening me on this.


Well-- aside from someone maybe turning up in an offensive SKIN, I've never heard of a SKIN-induced blue on blue, pilot. Capsuleers mostly target from our overviews or tactical displays, without ever taking a close look at what we're about to shoot at to see what colors it's wearing. Blue on blue is much more likely to be the result of bad intel or maladroit targeting or target-calling.

If the "Purity" rebels have some kind of IFF cloaking device, they'd be best served by pairing it with a deceptive SKIN. Likewise, if they have co-conspirators among the regular navy, there's no reason at all for them to show their "true colors."

If there's a security issue to allowing the SKINs, it would probably be that ships in Purity colors might be watched more closely by on-site security, distracting from stealthier threats. However, I kind of doubt that even loyal independent capsuleers will be allowed anywhere near the Empress-apparent anyway. We're pretty deadly, and our loyalties can be a little fickle.

Even if there's any distraction resulting, it'll probably be far from the Empress. So ... if it's a security concern at all, it's not likely to be an issue where it matters.
Stig Elendil
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-09-17 16:22:08 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Stig Elendil wrote:
I admit in theory identification shouldn't be a problem but we are all aware of bombings or killings that happened to fleets that were theoricaly allied and being tagged accordingly. Friendly fire isn't rare because of wrong identification.
And you're correct to point me that "Purity" rebels could simply disguise and come that way.
In anyway isn't it a real security problem ? And thanks for enlightening me on this.


Well-- aside from someone maybe turning up in an offensive SKIN, I've never heard of a SKIN-induced blue on blue, pilot. Capsuleers mostly target from our overviews or tactical displays, without ever taking a close look at what we're about to shoot at to see what colors it's wearing. Blue on blue is much more likely to be the result of bad intel or maladroit targeting or target-calling.

If the "Purity" rebels have some kind of IFF cloaking device, they'd be best served by pairing it with a deceptive SKIN. Likewise, if they have co-conspirators among the regular navy, there's no reason at all for them to show their "true colors."

If there's a security issue to allowing the SKINs, it would probably be that ships in Purity colors might be watched more closely by on-site security, distracting from stealthier threats. However, I kind of doubt that even loyal independent capsuleers will be allowed anywhere near the Empress-apparent anyway. We're pretty deadly, and our loyalties can be a little fickle.

Even if there's any distraction resulting, it'll probably be far from the Empress. So ... if it's a security concern at all, it's not likely to be an issue where it matters.


Thank you for your explanations and their clarity.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2016-09-18 03:43:47 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Grand Admiral Third Fleet Ren Karetta has stated publicly about considering to use the captured heretics SKINs to show support for the coronation and encourages capsuleers to do so the same in an interview just today.


Wait, what? Surely, manifesting the colours of a fraction directly opposing the coronation as a show of support...

Well, it doesn't make sense.

It's not for us to question their traditions. It could be a great honor to wear defeated soldier's armor.

But from the practical point of view, I believe that might be a huge security leak. What if real heretics would like to join the ceremony with not so friendly intent?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#29 - 2016-09-18 11:23:45 UTC
I did some research on this in some history book because I am trying to get my ship made into the right colors (not so easy) but also trying to get the right outfit together for the Coronation parties. The Navy has white with black accents, by the way, not white and gold. Black is special to the Reclamation and I don't know if that is why it is associated to the Khanid but the Khanid were the first to be Reclaimed so we feel a special duty to the sacred Reclamation and carry it as our banner. Someone else said that it was a how the Khanid dressed to separate themselves from Amarr, and, as they were the vanguard on Athra in the old days they would dress in black. White represents the light of God, and purity of course, but above all the other colors white represents True Amarr more than any other, it is their special color and the color they used in the old days to identify themselves, and if you go to Athra you will see ALOT of Amarrians wearing white especially in the higher castes, but they will also dress their slaves that way sometimes. Gold is considered to be synonymous with White but is special to the pure faithful and practical material matters of Amarr. Blue can be used in place of White I've heard, and Red can be used as a substitute for Gold because it represents the flesh of the martyrs so it's basically the same thing as Gold.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2016-09-21 01:53:45 UTC
A different program setting on a nanocoating is not a security threat.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#31 - 2016-09-22 20:13:52 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Ria Nieyli wrote:
Mitara Newelle wrote:
Grand Admiral Third Fleet Ren Karetta has stated publicly about considering to use the captured heretics SKINs to show support for the coronation and encourages capsuleers to do so the same in an interview just today.


Wait, what? Surely, manifesting the colours of a fraction directly opposing the coronation as a show of support...

Well, it doesn't make sense.

It's not for us to question their traditions. It could be a great honor to wear defeated soldier's armor.

But from the practical point of view, I believe that might be a huge security leak. What if real heretics would like to join the ceremony with not so friendly intent?

Valid security concerns are valid.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Merchant Rova
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2016-09-23 00:38:23 UTC
They look pretty cool so might as well use them. We aren't cavemen, and we don't only use sight do identify friend or foe.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#33 - 2016-09-23 13:43:18 UTC
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