Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I suggest you revisit the first post, namely this part:



In other words this thread is for the discussion of cloaking devices, their use, and suggestions for such in game devices. So a discussion of an alternate intel system is fair game if it relates to AFK cloaking.

Similarly, discussions on strategies related to AFK cloaking and how to deal with AFK cloaking are also fair game.

I like this idea but not for the issue of this thread.

It would be nice to know who is inactive/station spinning in system when you jump in, would safe a lot a warping around in big systems.

a thing that makes you sightable is a landmine.
If you want defile a cloaker I propose an other way.
The need of a player who knows well a solar system or a wh whatever he obtains a sort of military map. it's a prerequisite. He obtains a sort of certificate.
After that
A web of scanning probe by at least 2 players to interlace and interfere the cloak of all stealthy and new thing inside.
The first is this who know the place by their hook and cranny to procure the first layer of certitude with his probes, the second will be the contradictor with these probes to confirm the lay out of the mapping.

And all that done. You have your new system to see and watch.

I don't feel like a contradiction. A submarine or a plane equiped like usual know well when they are under an active scanning.
and the answer to whom search after them is never immediate.

I still don't see what the problem is, an afk person can't hurt you.

Local is why NS nubs complain and also why WH guys don't.

And the solution to free intel...is probably not free intel. Just saying.

Yup. That is the (at this point nebulous and unconfirmed) plan.

The reality is that most of the complainers here don't seem to get is that you are not suppose to be able to "remove a threat" like they want. The game is purposely designed so you can not be or feel 100% safe, even if you think you should be able to earn that somehow. When CCP though wormholers had gotten too good at securing their holes, they changed the wormhole spawn mechanics to put that possibility of someone coming out of nowhere back on the table. CCP moved sites away from scan-able sites into warp-able anomalies for the same reason.

The complaint that AFK cloaking could use some counter-play has some merit, but the solution is not going to be to nerf cloaks so that they cannot be used for this tactic or provide more free intel (like an AFK flag) so that players know they are not a risk because these solutions allow nullsec players to secure their space. Any solution will be as outlined above where there is play and counter play inherent in the design that still keep players at risk while in space. AFK cloaking may not be as viable a tactic in the future, but neither will relying on local to just dock up anytime someone comes by.

Well, 333 pages on a topic that CCP is already working on seems excessive. I am going to let this discussion drop until we get some more details on the Observatory Array which probably won't happen until the spring. I suggest those upset with the tactic learn to deal with the intended risk and actually play the game until then instead of wasting their energies complaining how it is unfair that there is a possibility they can be attacked in the most dangerous space of this PvP game.

I don't like the idea, not because I'm against changing cloaking or anything, I just don't think this is the best way.

In the alternate universe that includes New Eden, our characters are for all intents, living beings in their own right. They aren't controlled beings, but make their own decisions and carry out their own actions. New Eden exists without there being the reality that we exist in as players.

An icon, a flag, or some other indicator in game is a sign, not of what our characters are doing, but what we are (or aren't doing) as players.

It's a flag that tells us about what other players are doing, independent of what our characters are doing, which is still flying a spaceship cloaked. The characters are to a degree, still active even if we aren't.

So it seems like a pretty big break in immersion in the game.

I don't know if I explained that well.

Edit - Wow. The forums ate my entire post and killed my saved draft. -.- One moment please while I try to summarize.

Alright. Starting over.

Thank you, Black Pedro, for commenting. I wanted to touch on some points you made. First, you mentioned that we, the complainers, don't seem to get that we're not supposed to be able to remove a threat like we want.

Why not? If we're willing to put fleets together, go out and hunt down the enemy in space that we've claimed... why shouldn't we remove threats? Contrary to the popular statement "There is no safe place in Eve...", there should be safety. When you've killed everything in your space and pod expressed their pilots home. This is not a carebear's safety, hungering for all aspects of forced PVP to be taken from their slice of the game. This is a never ending fight to defend your space, your stations, your citadels and other assets. And that seems to be how it should be.

If you are strong, have the will to fight and reinforce yourself with other people that are of a like mind then yeah. You should be able to "remove threats" and keep you and yours safe. For as long as your strength lasts, anyway. Always a bigger fish, right?

In regards to the cloaks themselves, I don't want direct nerfs. I want counter-play options as you touched on. I've asked around my circle of community how to deal with a cloaky camper and the resounding answer is... nothing. You wait, tanked up and doing your thing, until they engage on you. The power of that opener is purely in the camper's hand. Fine. They can have that... if there are ways to, through skill and specialized equipment, put them on the defensive as well. They pay attention to probe scanners, hunting for targets if they're at the keyboard. They should also have to keep an eye on the D-Scan, forced to watch their own ass like everyone else is. Should be noted that I want this to be a 1v1 player function, not a station add-on that uncloaks with "such and such" range since that seems unfair. It should pit the scanner's specialized skill against the cloaker. Pure and simple.

And last but certainly not least, regarding intended risk and the managing of it via changes. I do not want direct nerfs. I don't want cloaks to get a fuel requirement, or an afk logout timer. I really don't care about all of that, it can stay in the game in its current form forever. I'll deal. I want to have options to be the aggressor, hunting down a cloaky camper to defend my friends and assets, cleaning out my space. To pick fights, instead of cowering in a station somewhere. And I do not want game mechanics changed to make my life safer without me having to fight for it.

Admittedly, I am a young pilot to Eve. So please take everything I say accordingly. I've not had a successful 1v1 fight yet, my killboard is certainly not green. But that's fine. Right now, I'm pretty bad. But I'm learning. I will get better.

I'd like to note that I mentioned that I only believe safety is earned by defending one's space. As an active, ongoing and never-ending function of owning that space. That you can feel safe as long as you have the numbers, resources and will to get out there and clean up your space. Until the next wave of reds pass through and you have to reform to start cleaning.

This is an always on, pvp based game. You don't deserve any space, any safety, any resources you are not willing to fight for. And you should always be watching yourself. Someone who is truly paying attention seems to be hard to sneak up on, so... I don't mind a weakened local.

And that I didn't care much for an idea of having an emplacement that does the scanning/decloaking for you. I'd personally prefer it be player ship based, so you had to carve out part of your fit to give yourself the ability to hunt down a cloaker. Increasing your risk of losing the fight, or forcing the hunter to bring other people with him or her.

An emplacement doing that work for the player seems like a bad way to go, really. Unless there's a player at the helm of the scanning, which I hope ends up being the case. That someone has to pull up to the observatory (in space so they can be blapped while linked into the structure) and run scans to pinpoint anomalous energy signatures. Or something.