EVE General Discussion

Yes, you are mistaken.

As stated, the big wardec-spamming groups can only keep a few hundred wars going at a time, and there are *thousands* of corporations. Plus they don't even limit themselves to high-sec corporations, they target low/null sec groups as well to hit their members going to market hubs.

Additionally as stated: None of the big groups hunts their targets anymore. Only the *small* groups that run 2-3 wars at a time tend to do that these days.

You sound like you've spent entirely too much time on forums/in chat rooms *talking* about EVE and not nearly enough time *playing* EVE...

I mean if we are just going to go by the hysterical people on the forums rather than actual game play - then even in an NPC corp 100% of new players get ganked constantly anyway, so you'd better not undock at all...ever.

Well, you did insinuate with that comment that your opinion was worth more, as you have helped newbies and others have probably not. Trying to make yourself look like an expert on the subject, and then we all just have to accept your word for it. That is a fallacy, where you try to enlarge your importance in regards to this subject. And yes I made a sarcastic comment, about that being connected to your ego. Perhaps i should not have, but it felt so right in the moment.

About the being biased thing in the beginning. My comment is clearly a statement to tell you, that you are not the only one who has helped newbies, so it is not a bage of expertise to say " i have helped newbies". So your example is pretty bad tbh. as it is not biased. I have objectively helped newbies without putting a value to that action. It relays that you wanted to make the point, did not find a good example of me doing it and then did the whole "see how your own medicin tastes" thing, without actually doing that. Bravo!

This banter between you and me is getting pretty ridiculos, I seem to have offended you severely in some way to the point were you are overreacting and overanalyzing my replies. I did indeed only say that I disagree with the notion, that being in NPC corp for longer time is good advice to give newbies. And it is better to help them find a good corp, as waiting only postpones the problem. OP even said join a player corp later. Why not just try to find a good corp from the beginning, as they are out there(The good corps). That is my only crime, and then you went overboard because you did not like one of the formulations I used or my opinion, which still does not change the validity of my opinion. That is your problem, though. I will go and make something more constructive than this discussion.

Well sure there is no 1 single path that works for everyone - that is kind of the point a lot of people have been trying to make.

I think pretty much everyone can agree you should figure out the basic mechanics of flying a ship/etc before you join PH or another 0.0 group...But most of us also make the (fairly logical) assumption that most new players will have already done so before they figure out what PH even is, or how to join a corporation...

And I don't think many (if any) would have had an issue if the OP had said that the player should become comfortable with the game before joining a corp - the point that offends them is when you try to specify an SP level or a specific time frame for that process. Some people are comfortable and ready to go within minutes - others will *never* get there in 20 years (and everything in between) - but that is an *individual* thing. Not something you can just arbitrarily set at "get cruiser mastery 4 or 5 first".

edit: Also it isn't always a bad thing to step outside your comfort zone - particularly early on. It is a way that a lot of people learn. And as I and others have stated: When you are that young you really have *nothing to lose* even if things go badly - you just get a learning experience as the OP seems to have done. His problem was in immediately giving up each time after minor setbacks.

Obvious troll OP is obvious.

Where are all these trillions of hi-sec wardeccing corps I keep hearing 'experienced newbies' talk about? From the way they describe it, Marmite camps every station 24/7, just waiting for all those juicy Ibis killmails. If anything, HS needs to be more dangerous, not less.

I've stated that I could be mistaken or just horribly unlucky. Disclaimers are there for a reason as my experience is limited.

HS must be made more dangerous yes. But equally dangerous to all I feel. Not one sided. Big difference. You may have seen a post of mine in another thread calling for more PvP, not less. So I share that view.

Unlike other MMO's, there are no fixed metrics for such things. You can't just grind your way up into X gear at Y level and blend in with all the other people doing some activity. There is *always* going to be someone (probably a lot of someone's) who is better at whatever you are doing than you are - and if you are *any* good at all at playing games (regardless of in-game skills/assets) there will always be people *worse* than you are at whatever you are doing as well.

While SP and isk will limit you slightly (not much since people are literally willing to throw both skillbooks and items at you for free just to get you involved faster) - the only *real* obstacles to overcome in EVE are *inside your own head*. As such, nobody else can tell you when you are "ready" to join a corp and do things...You are ready whenever you decide you are ready.

No matter what path you take you are going to have problems and setbacks - even if you stick to the NPC corp. The key to success in EVE is ultimately to learn to accept and move past the setbacks. Learn from them certainly, don't repeat whatever mistakes you make - but don't get upset or frustrated by them, because they are all just part of the game. As they say whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger - and in EVE we are *immortal* - so nothing that happens to you in this game can *ever* actually kill you - it *all* just makes you stronger (provided you are willing to let it do so by learning).




2 examples from my own personal EVE experience:
#1 - When I started EVE I immediately closed the annoying tutorial, spent 15 minutes figuring out the controls, flew 10 jumps (call it another 15 minutes) to meet up with the friend who recruited me, received a (poorly) fit tristan from him, and was within low-sec killing belt rats less than 15 minutes after that. I died 5 minutes later and I've never looked back - I loved it. So for me, I was comfortable with the game and willing to go get myself killed in less than an hour. And that was definitely the *right* choice *for me*.

#2 - A few years later while I was living in sov space and getting both bored and fed up with sov space politics, I decided to make a high-sec PvP alt to mess around on while nothing was happening in sov space. I killed my first ishkur (assault frigate), flown by a pilot older than my main account who was baiting miners by stealing their ore, before I passed the 500k sp mark. I killed a *Loki* (t3 cruiser - infamous for being OP), also flown by a pilot older than my main account, *before I passed 1 million sp* - while flying a ship that (at the time) cost me *less than a million isk*... Because an inexperience or idiotic player can have all the skillpoints and isk in the universe - he is still going to be inexperienced or idiotic - and thus at an enormous disadvantage. And the only way to gain experience and learn to be better is to *try* things in the game and learn from whatever happens.

Quotes from the OP , Response from a decade old null player:

It is true you may be wardecced. I wouldnt even bother with highsec corps myself when i was ready to leave an NPC corp.

Wardecs do not matter to null players. that is a high sec thing. I joined a null corp with less than 1.5 mil SP, got in a t1 frig and took 64 gates from where i was in empire, through HED and into omist. Never looked back, no regrets.

Killing null rats solo in null with be a problem with the ships available to alpha. But if you buddy up with one or two newbros you could handle belt ratting and possibly lower anoms. Most newbie friendly alliances such as goons, brave, and horde offer a lot of help to newbros. including ratting and mining ops, free ships, free skill books, classes, etc.

If you do exploration... you will make more off one site in null than you will in half a day running missions in high. Possibly more than you will make in a day doing missions depending on the site. Null alliances that arent LOL, offer logistic services to get your loot to market and stuff you need to null. Most alliances have a market hub that is pretty stocked with commonly used items.

Mining is the same, You can make 2-3 times as much an hour mining in null as you could in high mining without any effort. I dont get where you are getting this mercy of high rank members at.

Ehh i would go with being able to replace the ship you are flying 2-3 times without additional income. You can make bank ( for a newbie) pretty quickly in null. First thing i would do as a new player in null is setup a scan frig and start scanning the area around my home station. do that for a couple hours a night for a week and you should have a couple hundred mill isk at least.

Eve university, RVB, and newbro friendly null alliances are all better than FW for learning PVP.

This is only necessary if you leave high sec which you are telling them not to do. In null they will have an intel channel. Once in null they shouldnt need to travel back and forth to empire and if they do they should JC it or pod it through gate camps. If they are allowed JCs, you use your JC and death clones to go back and forth if you want too.

"6. As the old saying goes, fly what you are prepared to lose" This one i will agree on. Never get attached to something or somewhere in eve.

"7. Finally don't frustrate other players by asking questions that are covered by tutorials and career agents already. " I recommend the opposite. Its better to ask the question and have someone point you towards decent and in date info then it is to randomly hunt for the info by yourself and it may be inaccurate or old, etc. Most older players that deal with newer players( again in a newbro friendly alliance this is normal) dont mind answering questions and helping people out. This game isnt a bunch of cold hearted bitter vets like some make it out to be.

" And they went through all this when the rules/environment" they know because they either play in those types of corps and alliances...or they run them.

50 Shades of EVE?

Karmafleet and Pandemic Horde followed up on the success BRAVE had finding new players and get them in the thick of all the possibilities of the game. Many thousands of new payers have joined these corporation and alliances and stayed in the game. Too bad it didn't work out for you. I have had a blast with BRAVE from day one ... now already more then three years ago.