EVE General Discussion

Great thread, OP gives the perfect opposite of how to spaecship and people with some insight walk in and drop their wisdom.

Log on to die guys, everything else is a bonus.
Never not die, never not take the bait, never not undock.
Everything tastes bad if you take small bites.

I know you are getting a lot of flak, but I get where you are coming from conceptually. However I feel like there are some assumptions you have from your experience that can be challenged.

1. DO NOT apply with any player run corporation for a while. No matter how well intentioned they are or how willing they are to teach you. You will find yourself war dec'd by HiSec griefers like Marmite Collective and so on and you will be unable to do much in the game except hide away all the time.

I feel like this is too broad. There are lots of decent corporations to join, and you can join them and still hold alts (especially alpha alts) to do stuff with in the event that the corp is having a war dec. That being said, the value of learning and working with other people in this game cannot possibly be overstated.

This comes with a word of caution though. EVE is a vast place, and no one has perspective on it all. Many people will try to tell you how you should play EVE (OP and commenters included), and that simply isn't how to get the most out of EVE. I am confident that there is _something_ in EVE for many people, but you have to find it for yourself. Allow others to tell you what there is to do, and follow advice on HOW to do things. However, as to the WHAT to do, that should be decided by you. Adjust who you are with whenever appropriate to match this choice.

2. DO NOT apply with a nullsec corp for a while either. Not only for the same reason above, but if you have low skill/training, low ISK and so on you're not going to find this game fun. You will feel useless and trapped and without a market in nullsec and will be at the mercy of higher ranking members. Basically, you're cannon fodder. Again, no offense to them and no matter how well intentioned they are.

I mean really more of the same, the thing about null groups that are newbie friendly is they are specialized in getting people where they need to be with what they need to have. If your drive is to fight and get into the action, this is not a bad path. However, you must realize you will be vastly overpowered for quite some time. You will still be valuable in a fleet, but you may struggle with your limitations if you don't find others within the organization to bond with.


3. Consider sticking with an NPC corp until you have at least 50 - 100 mil ISK and can fly a cruiser at 4 or 5 mastery [EDIT: Or maybe not as much but when you're comfortable] before considering any of the above. That means doing missions, exploring, mining (If it must be done), industry etc... and getting well acquainted with the game. Do not rush to nullsec or rush into PvP. NPC corps cannot be war dec'd so this reduces griefing chances in HiSec to all but those who want to suicide gank you.

This isn't as bad as everyone says it is, but I encourage you to only do this as long as it is entertaining. EVE is VERY good at convincing people that play is actually a chore, but it doesn't have to be. It is fine to do missions and take your time learning the game, but realize you are basically living in the tutorial, and someday you really should try the full game ;-)

4. If you do want PvP experience early on, consider Faction Warfare instead. Use it as a learning path also.

This. Self-Promotion time: Aideron Robotics is my corp and I run it in Faction Warfare precisely because we can take people with days or weeks of training and get them in the action, and teach them to live off the land regardless of SP. There is the problem with being locked out of enemy highsec, so you _really_ want to find a good corp. I recommend AGAINST joining the NPC militia corp, unless you only do it to search out a good player one.

5. Learn how to evade gate camps and traps as quickly as possible. Lots of YouTube, google links etc... to research. Use a shuttle where necessary and don't put your good ships at risk unnecessarily if you need to fetch a small market item a few jumps away.

+1 but also don't let this make you _too_ paranoid. If you are not being stupid about your wealth, you rarely will have issue. As a new player with < 100 mill total in assets, you are beneath notice, and it is taboo for many people to punish new players _too_ bad.

6. As the old saying goes, fly what you are prepared to lose. In fact, consider whatever you are undocking as lost already. So check your ISK budget before undocking. It is the same as playing an FPS - you will die frequently and you will respawn again, except in Eve you lose a lot more.

This is true, but I will counter to say there are ways to fly safer than others, I encourage you look into what they are before you start flying anything worth >300 mill

7. Finally don't frustrate other players by asking questions that are covered by tutorials and career agents already. Besides - you will want to do the career agents for all the free ships and goodies you get via them anyway.

Literally ignore this. If your questions annoy the people around you, find new people. There are plenty of people in this game that will day in and day out go over the basics in the newbie chats. If you have questions and no one to ask, evemail me.

In principle I agree with learning and doing things your own way as a new comet to any game. It is true that you can learn and see more with other experienced players but there is joy in finding things out and learning stuff youtself at your own cost and pace.

Also, self-sufficiency is very important IMHO. Although many good corps and alliances provide structured training and support and SRP, it is always ideal if you are self-sufficient and what others can offer is support and bonus, not necessary for your subsistance in game. You always want to be in a position that you can survive without a corp or alliance, but you seek those things because you want to experience more, not because that's the only way you can survive in game.

So to some extent I agree with some of what the OP suggests, to learn to make some ISKies and teach yourself basics of EVE without being spoon fed.

Where the OP lost all credibility for me is when he referred high sec war decs as griefing and such. That just showed although OP had some valid points to consider, his understanding of EVE is very shallow.

It's like other discussions we had here recently. You can do all the PVE you want and nevet shoot a single playership, but don't have the 'carebear mentality'. On the 'carebear tag' thread you see Chribba chiming in as the biggest carebear in New Eden, but he is so well respected because he 'gets' the game.

So my advice would be actually read that thread and understand what 'carebear' is and what 'someone who gets eve but mostly enjoys and chooses to do other things than space ship pew pew' is. You can be solo or PVE focused or live in highsec or whatever, just don't get into the carebear mindset and you can't go wrong.

EDIT: For clarification, or for those who can't be bothered to go through the whole 'carebear tag' thread, here's what it boils down to.

There are people who really avoids PVP engagements in space because :reasons: (or they really suck at it and admit it as much), but can look after themselves and survive and prosper doing 'carebear' things in WH and NPC null and such. Although they may be doing mostly PVE these people are hardly ever berated or looked down upon by other players, because they 'get' how EVE works and just chose a path that they like, not out of ignorance or misconception, but out of their own informed decisions and gaming preferences, and they do what they do while paying attention to what's happening in the space with other players. That's totally fine and most people I know respect such play style even if it doesn't match with their own play styles - the key here is that you 'get it' - that in EVE, whatever you do you are doing it in PVP space packed with other players.

When were you going to tell me? What about the bond we've built spending so much time together in our little cozy corp?

Who will feed the cat at the station when you go? Will you be taking all your crap that I keep tripping over every day?

You and Remiel are right. So; for the 3rd time, Don't listen to advice from new players.

Jenn, I heard your enormously insightful remarks on the recent PvE Town Hall (sorry, I haven't the link to hand), so I know you're speaking from vast experience.

But there's something I want to add to the thread. Joining a player Corp is not obligatory. If EVE were designed solely around this feature, there'd be no NPC Corps (Hurrah! - but that's another matter).

Know yourself.
Are you the kind of person who can do stuff solo, but who generally seeks out others for that shared experience?
Would you rather trawl through text and YouTube to find answers to your questions, or do you favour asking someone else?
Do you like to dive straight in and try to learn from your mistakes, or do you RTFM first?

Your answers to these and similar questions about your general behaviour will likely indicate how you, a new player, should approach the game. There is no one-size-fits-all (in EVE or in Life).

That's part of the magic, anyway. I largely play solo, and I love reading the effing manual and playing (and re-playing) those instructional YouTube vids. That's just the kind of person I am.

If you know the kind of person you are, you have your answer ready-made. Mistakes of all kinds are learning opportunities, and perhaps the best teachers of all - if you know how to profit from them.

I have seen so many enthusiastic newbro posts on /r/EVE in the last year that are totally not in-line with OP's suggestions, I just can't help but shake my head at this bad advice. Every experience that *might* drive a newbro Alpha away can also be treated by said new player as a learning experience. And so many newbros do just that! It's a good metaphor for RL, honestly: it all has to do with your attitude. Some people get knocked down and give up, some people bounce right back up and think critically ab. what they'll do differently next time.

My $0.02 for incoming Alphas is a) be adventurous, b) join a player run corp. really damn fast (sure, take the time to finish career missions first, because that's free ISK), and if that player run corp. isn't quite right for you, find a new one; and c) keep a positive mental attitude: have thick skin, keep making it thicker, and do what you like to do in the game.

Get into lowsec, get into nullsec, get into wormhole space. Don't let griefers get you down. EVE is an adventure, just like life !

So please, don't listen to OP. Don't get advice from un-adventurous newbros!!

Mate you don't even know what Ganking is, i smell a forum support alt.

The trouble is, he's right.

You are not an authority on PVP, or anything else in EVE.

As a newbie I formed a corp with other players in the first week, got AWOXED, re-formed another corp, headed into nullsec pretty much straight away and have now been part of a nullsec organization oriented towards helping newbies get into EVE and PVP ever since.

You are literally wrong about almost everything you have stated in your original post which makes it terrible advice for new players.

Sorry to disrespect man but this is so short sighted.

Be adventurous. Be .... adventurous. ... B .. e ... adv...

Now I'm going to point to X number of posts in this thread that highlights why you can't be fking adventurous when you join a player corp too early and either become too trapped in HiSec to openly experience many aspects of HiSec living THAT YOU IDEALLY SHOULD, or trapped in NullSec waiting on his corp to do something because you have no ISK or assets.

Be adventurous... but be sure to join a corp AS SOON AS POSSIBLE SO THEY CAN GIVE YOU GOODIES AND BE CONSTRAINED TO ONLY NULLSEC CONDITIONS FOR THE REST OF YOUR GOD DAMN EVE EXPERIENCE... what an oxymoron that is

Dude, I think you're missing the point of a lot of people's replies on here...

Advocating what you say is like advocating home schooling. There's a 'hidden curriculum' one gets from going to school; you learn, yes, but you also learn valuable social interactions. The flaw in your theory is that there is no perfect route in Eve. Our scars make us stronger, and when you take that away, you take away our development. You seem to see a capsuleer's progression through Eve as being made up of skill points, but it's far more than that. Working alone for any amount of time, or hiding away in an NPC corp instils a false sense of security; in effect you're not even actually playing Eve. You're playing the test server.

Losing your first ship early on, and all those easy rewards from tutorial missions, and then having to desperately find a way to make enough money to get back out there is the very ESSENCE of making your way through Eve. No-one is saying it's an easy route, but like I said, there isn't one. The phrase 'survival of the fittest' is what it says, and it doesn't mean all will make it. Some will, some won't. But those that do will at least be safe in the knowledge that they are playing Eve, not some colorless simulation of it.

TL;DR You're wrong, and this whole thread is cancer to the game. People should't be listening to you, period.