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Remove Anti-Main-Faction Missions
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Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-09-14 07:45:12 UTC
Missions that work against main factions are just a pain if your are not running for the pirate factions. Mission runners avoid them like cancer and they are a good way for noobs to shoot their standing to hell. They really don't serve for anything because the loss of standing to one faction outweights any increase on the other side. To get standing up again is a boring grind.

Even shooting the standing to hell in FC war doesn't really serve any means because you most likely have another char that is doing work you can't do yourself anymore. And after the FC war you need the long grind to get faction standing up again. Where is the fun in doing x Level one missions when you can easily do Level 4? It's just a grind to get free from the faction police.

Capsuleers are mercenaries lorewise and everyone knows that these will fight you one day to help you out the next: no real bad feelings.

Maybe the CSM could look into this part of the game, which is just annoying in every way without really creating roleplaying content. And I don't count agents simply not talking to you as content.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2016-09-14 07:53:52 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Missions that work against main factions are just a pain if your are not running for the pirate factions. Mission runners avoid them like cancer and they are a good way for noobs to shoot their standing to hell. They really don't serve for anything because the loss of standing to one faction outweights any increase on the other side. To get standing up again is a boring grind.

Even shooting the standing to hell in FC war doesn't really serve any means because you most likely have another char that is doing work you can't do yourself anymore. And after the FC war you need the long grind to get faction standing up again. Where is the fun in doing x Level one missions when you can easily do Level 4? It's just a grind to get free from the faction police.

Capsuleers are mercenaries lorewise and everyone knows that these will fight you one day to help you out the next: no real bad feelings.

Maybe the CSM could look into this part of the game, which is just annoying in every way without really creating roleplaying content. And I don't count agents simply not talking to you as content.


You... you can just not do them?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-09-14 09:48:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Malcanis wrote:

You... you can just not do them?
Good idea if you know what they are doing to your standing, But why are they here when 99,9% of all players avoid them like plague for good reasons? Teasing Noobs?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#4 - 2016-09-14 10:56:09 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

You... you can just not do them?
Good idea if you know what they are doing to your standing, But why are they here when 99,9% of all players avoid them like plague for good reasons? Teasing Noobs?
I don't know, wasn't CCP Affinity musing last year that she didn't think standings were consequential enough and that you shouldn't be able to be positive with all the factions? It doesn't seem like there are many 'consequences' for your slaughtering of thousands of NPCs to benefit one of the empires as it is.

Seems like a better solution is to only allow anti-faction missions in highsec so that players have to make consequential choices of who they side with. It makes sense that the empires would be more concerned with battling their neighbours than sending capsuleers off on police or anti-pirate duty. And how do these NPC pirates get into highsec anyways when I infallibly have the faction police on me seconds after entering >=0.5 security system? If you want to fight pirates in anti-pirate missions, you should have to go to lowsec closer to where they live to get these missions.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-09-14 11:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Geronimo McVain
Black Pedro wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

You... you can just not do them?
Good idea if you know what they are doing to your standing, But why are they here when 99,9% of all players avoid them like plague for good reasons? Teasing Noobs?
I don't know, wasn't CCP Affinity musing last year that she didn't think standings were consequential enough and that you shouldn't be able to be positive with all the factions? It doesn't seem like there are many 'consequences' for your slaughtering of thousands of NPCs to benefit one of the empires as it is.

Seems like a better solution is to only allow anti-faction missions in highsec so that players have to make consequential choices of who they side with. It makes sense that the empires would be more concerned with battling their neighbours than sending capsuleers off on police or anti-pirate duty. And how do these NPC pirates get into highsec anyways when I infallibly have the faction police on me seconds after entering >=0.5 security system? If you want to fight pirates in anti-pirate missions, you should have to go to lowsec closer to where they live to get these missions.

why not, but you need much better options to raise your faction standing again. The problem is the inparity in gaining/loosing faction standing. If you could raise it as fast as loose there would be no big problem. But for noobs with just one char most of the trade hubs will be unaccessable and they will be quickly killed by any gate gun. What wouldn't be a big problem for vet will be a great problem for noobs.
GinBar
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2016-09-14 11:40:42 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Missions that work against main factions are just a pain if your are not running for the pirate factions. Mission runners avoid them like cancer and they are a good way for noobs to shoot their standing to hell. They really don't serve for anything because the loss of standing to one faction outweights any increase on the other side. To get standing up again is a boring grind.

Even shooting the standing to hell in FC war doesn't really serve any means because you most likely have another char that is doing work you can't do yourself anymore. And after the FC war you need the long grind to get faction standing up again. Where is the fun in doing x Level one missions when you can easily do Level 4? It's just a grind to get free from the faction police.

Capsuleers are mercenaries lorewise and everyone knows that these will fight you one day to help you out the next: no real bad feelings.

Maybe the CSM could look into this part of the game, which is just annoying in every way without really creating roleplaying content. And I don't count agents simply not talking to you as content.


what about tags and LP stores without antifaction missions ?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#7 - 2016-09-14 11:59:35 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
why not, but you need much better options to raise your faction standing again. The problem is the inparity in gaining/loosing faction standing. If you could raise it as fast as loose there would be no big problem. But for noobs with just one char most of the trade hubs will be unaccessable and they will be quickly killed by any gate gun. What wouldn't be a big problem for vet will be a great problem for noobs.
Tags for standings then.

I really don't feel strongly either way (although given you can just pass on missions you don't want to run I don't see it as a major issue either), but I got the sense CCP felt that standings should be revamped completely to make them more meaningful as summarized on themittani.com:

TMC wrote:
CONTENT IN STANDING

Less concrete than the convoys was the discussion on standings. CCP Affinity offered her opinion that standings are likely due for a rebalance or removal “in the next few years,” but there is not hard timeline for when or even if this will happen. While not likely to herald any changes in the near future, her insight on the matter does show how each part of the game is being looked at for consistency and its ability to generate engaging gameplay.

According to CCP Affinity, the way the current system allows players to have positive standings with just about everyone at once does not make much sense. A rework would allow for more consequences for actions. Factions would team up with or against players, and being beloved by both the Amarr and Minmatar at once might no longer be possible. Besides creating new enemies for players to shoot, this would also allow factions to offer new services to their friends.


I'm not sure your idea goes towards that goal but I guess it doesn't hurt to have the CSM inquire as to where CCP thinks standings are headed. Perhaps once the minutes are out we'll know some more.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2016-09-14 12:08:38 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

You... you can just not do them?
Good idea if you know what they are doing to your standing, But why are they here when 99,9% of all players avoid them like plague for good reasons? Teasing Noobs?


I know full well what they do to standing. I'm one of the 0.5% who prefer being able to make >20b in a few weeks to caring what empire facpo think of me.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
voetius
Grundrisse
#9 - 2016-09-14 20:38:07 UTC
GinBar wrote:
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Missions that work against main factions are just a pain if your are not running for the pirate factions. Mission runners avoid them like cancer and they are a good way for noobs to shoot their standing to hell. They really don't serve for anything because the loss of standing to one faction outweights any increase on the other side. To get standing up again is a boring grind.

Even shooting the standing to hell in FC war doesn't really serve any means because you most likely have another char that is doing work you can't do yourself anymore. And after the FC war you need the long grind to get faction standing up again. Where is the fun in doing x Level one missions when you can easily do Level 4? It's just a grind to get free from the faction police.

Capsuleers are mercenaries lorewise and everyone knows that these will fight you one day to help you out the next: no real bad feelings.

Maybe the CSM could look into this part of the game, which is just annoying in every way without really creating roleplaying content. And I don't count agents simply not talking to you as content.


what about tags and LP stores without antifaction missions ?


That's a good point that the OP should have a think about. While I tend to agree with Black Pedro's post and Affinity's thoughts, if CCP were to remove all the anti-faction missions they would need to do a big pass on the LP stores as many items need navy insignias.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-09-15 06:14:47 UTC
voetius wrote:
GinBar wrote:

what about tags and LP stores without antifaction missions ?


That's a good point that the OP should have a think about. While I tend to agree with Black Pedro's post and Affinity's thoughts, if CCP were to remove all the anti-faction missions they would need to do a big pass on the LP stores as many items need navy insignias.

Lorewise Capsuleers are mercenaries which are paid for a job. So CCP would just have to remove the negative standing effect which would lorewise mean that the main faction accept that there are no "personal" aka standing feelings involved. Like Amaar has no problems with us shooting Amaar ships in the purity event.
FW or working for pirate factions may be something else lorewise so there the faction standing losses make sense.
Ragged Starkiller
Minmatar Secret Service
Ushra'Khan
#11 - 2016-09-16 13:09:45 UTC
I would vote to keep missions standings like they are right now because they reflect the conflict of new eden but I would add a warning in the mission description or a separate notification about the standings drop.