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From one newbie to all the up and coming Alpha clone newbies
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Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-09-14 12:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Josh Sharvas
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Hello OP.

Worst advise ever. People like you are the reason so many players quit out of boredom. Please stop giving new players advice and just quit if you don't even manage to handle a Highsec war.


Let me try paint a picture here.

You're a brand new player with no idea what you're doing. You have few rookie and frig ships and close to zero ISK. You've barely experienced missions and Eve lore and so on.

So you're in HiSec and you get sold on the idea of joining a NullSec corp with all the promise of training and help... You join the corp. Now you've gotta make your way to their staging or area or base.

You can either:

1. Remote set medical clone and pod yourself and arrive with a capsule
2. Risk your best frig or destroyer and fly there (And hope to arrive with it past all the war dec's and camps)
3. Shuttle there and arrive with shuttle

Either way, you arrive with little to fkall. Now what do you do??? You can no longer run with missions or experience the rest of Eve lore. You're permanently in more danger than you can handle.

So let's say the corp gifts you a decent cruiser and fit (If you're lucky). And let's say they're always doing something fun. What can you do now?

1. Go ratting. Oh the joy of joys. At least the ISK is okay for a newbie. But it wears thin after a few days.
2. Join an op, and feel pretty useless at it for a long time. Though, again if you're lucky, the guys will at least keep you engaged and show you the finer points of PvP. But don't expect there to be something happening all the time, and if there isn't you're basically trapped. There is no market around and you have absolutely no idea what to do.
3. Again, if you're lucky, they will gift you a mining barge and you can go mining a bit or join a mining op. But that's about it.

Remember, you've now sold out the rest of Eve experience and you're trapped in nullsec save for a long training time on a jump clone or a lucky wormhole escape. And when you're back in HiSec you're still at risk and your leader won't want to see you causing red all over his killboard either.

Does that about cover the nullsec experience for a newbie (At least for a few months) or did I miss anything?
Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-09-14 12:56:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Josh Sharvas
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
The PVP aspect of this game should be taken seriously from the word 'go', because PVP is the central theme to this game. Marketing is PVP, mining is PVP; everything is a competition, or a driver for competition. But even if all you're doing is bumming about running missions, if you're not prepared for someone to jump into your mission and mess with you, and you don't know what to do about it because you chose to ignore everyone and just go off and learn for yourself, then guess what? You get to learn the hard way. That's what you've chosen for yourself, and as a result, you have no one but yourself to blame for your own failure to mitigate the risks by garnering that much-needed understanding of PVP.

Even if you never click F1 in anger against another player, understanding PVP is vital for any measure of success in this game, because someone is sure as hell gonna click F1 on you one day, be it sooner or later.


Oh no fully agree here. I think we've a disconnect in perspective and terms, not logic.

PvP from a "want to shoot and kill other players" will not necessarily occur for a newbie for some time unless he/she is fortunate to join an experienced fleet. But PvP from a gameplay aspect is definitely full on from the word go hence they should do everything to research it and speak with experienced players.

They don't need to be in a player corp to do this though surely?


When you find the right corp, you'll understand the difference it can make to one's progression.


I've run with quite a few corps with various roles from HiSec to Nullsec. This isn't my only account. I just rejoined Eve recently and via Steam and am relearning again. Maybe I've just been horrendously unlucky? :( I am really trying though.

But how does one get around all the griefer corps in HiSec when you're just starting out? They basically stop you from doing anything. There is plenty of PvP to be had without them actively hunting you when you have close to zero ISK. And with instalock they pop you in a second at a gate camp. There's really no PvP learning to be had when you're popped so quickly in your measly frig/dest with a poor fit :(

I say a player char should at least be a month or two old before experiencing that else they might quit. Or have a hard shell and bare with it (If they have the patience).


Actually, there is lots to learn when you're killed in a measly fit frigate or destroyer. There's always lots to learn when you lose, regardless of the loss. In fact, you learn a lot more from losing ships than you do from killing them, because let's face it, if you're killing ****, you're probably set.

What are these griefer corps you're talking about?

Are you talking about the ones that invite people to corp and kill them? Simple, don't join corps with friendly fire enabled. Really not a problem anymore on that front. That being said, I've trained a lot of very capable PVP'ers, one of my proudest being Benji Dan. Feel free to peruse his KB. I trained him by fighting him, and making him go find fights in lowsec, or getting him involved in wardecs, giving him advice with every loss to begin with, and as time went by, instead of giving direct advice, I began asking what it was he learned. Sure, I killed him myself a few times too. But one day, he took his 4-6 month old toon out to lowsec in a ****-fit active armour blaster thorax, and killed a 2008 veteran in a t2 fit rupture. It shouldn't have been possible, but Benji used what he'd learned, and won anyway. It was close, like, about 8% structure close, but he won.

Because he learned fast, and learned by losing. In-corp sparring, even to total shiploss, should be encouraged for new people. It's not for KB padding, trust me. I don't stop trying to kill my newbies until they demonstrate they're able to kill me, and trust me, I'm on Benji's KB too.

So I'm going to have to ask you to define what a griefer corp is exactly, please, because I've yet to encounter such a thing.


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.

These guys are well equipped with instalock and so on. So a newbie has no chance. A newbie can no longer fly around freely in HiSec even and do missions and get to grips with the game. He basically gets squashed / strangled down to his station while he see's WT's in local. Or tries to make a run for it to a nullsec alliance.

I was recently chatting to a guy who ran a supposedly very experienced PvP corp who still could not take these guys on.

So all said and done, the purpose of HiSec to safe guard new pilots becomes null and void. I don't know if I'm the only one seeing / experiencing this?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#23 - 2016-09-14 13:10:34 UTC
It's ironic. People like the OP mean well but the advice they give is the opposite of helpful. Even CCP themselves have said that people who engage with others early on stay longer than people who don't. Joining a corp is damn near essential.

I was told much the same thing as what the OP said back in 2007, which is why I spent most of my 1st YEAR in EVE running missions in high sec. I took several week-long breaks during that period and almost quit the game altogether, it was the advent of Faction Warfare that got me really engaged with the game and since then they only time I've taken a break was when I've moved and had no internet.

Remiel is right, don't listen to advice from new players, only experience gives you context to make sense out of your own early experiences. I'll bet that if the OP is still playing 5 years from now (and makes the smart move of getting out of high sec at some point) his opinion will be different.
Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-09-14 13:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Josh Sharvas
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's ironic. People like the OP mean well but the advice they give is the opposite of helpful. Even CCP themselves have said that people who engage with others early on stay longer than people who don't. Joining a corp is damn near essential.

I was told much the same thing as what the OP said back in 2007, which is why I spent most of my 1st YEAR in EVE running missions in high sec. I took several week-long breaks during that period and almost quit the game altogether, it was the advent of Faction Warfare that got me really engaged with the game and since then they only time I've taken a break was when I've moved and had no internet.

Remiel is right, don't listen to advice from new players, only experience gives you context to make sense out of your own early experiences. I'll bet that if the OP is still playing 5 years from now (and makes the smart move of getting out of high sec at some point) his opinion will be different.


But dude, basically what you've said I covered in the OP? You've pretty much repeated my advice but called mine wrong?

I never said spend a year in HiSec. I said get to at least a respectable level and ISK count (Lv 4 Cruiser and 50 -100 mil ISK) first and do not rush from day 1 into nullsec else you will regret it. That's good advice no? In fact, isn't that obvious?

And I ALSO said get into FW for early PvP if desired.

It is all about preparing first before rushing in and expecting a good experience.

Sorry if I misunderstood?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-09-14 13:22:58 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2016-09-14 13:33:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Meanwhile, a good example of someone doing the exact opposite of the OP advice:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies/comments/524i2a/eve_through_the_eyes_of_a_newbro_courtesy_of/

I know which looks like much more fun to me.

Also, even if you stay in highsec, being wardecced doesn't mean you have to dock up or avoid playing. If that's what you've learnt then that's pretty unfortunate. That's just a crappy CEO you have. Wars shouldn't stop you enjoying the game and any half decent Corp should be able to teach you how to manage them easily.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#27 - 2016-09-14 13:35:47 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Just from me (a moderately inexperienced player who has made the same mistakes over and over), to all the up and coming newbies of Eve Online - Especially for when the clone states kick in.

1. DO NOT apply with any player run corporation for a while. No matter how well intentioned they are or how willing they are to teach you. You will find yourself war dec'd by HiSec griefers like Marmite Collective and so on and you will be unable to do much in the game except hide away all the time.
2. DO NOT apply with a nullsec corp for a while either. Not only for the same reason above, but if you have low skill/training, low ISK and so on you're not going to find this game fun. You will feel useless and trapped and without a market in nullsec and will be at the mercy of higher ranking members. Basically, you're cannon fodder. Again, no offense to them and no matter how well intentioned they are.
3. Consider sticking with an NPC corp until you have at least 50 - 100 mil ISK and can fly a cruiser at 4 or 5 mastery before considering any of the above. That means doing missions, exploring, mining (If it must be done), industry etc... and getting well acquainted with the game. Do not rush to nullsec or rush into PvP. NPC corps cannot be war dec'd so this reduces griefing chances in HiSec to all but those who want to suicide gank you.
4. If you do want PvP experience early on, consider Faction Warfare instead. Use it as a learning path also.
5. Learn how to evade gate camps and traps as quickly as possible. Lots of YouTube, google links etc... to research. Use a shuttle where necessary and don't put your good ships at risk unnecessarily if you need to fetch a small market item a few jumps away.
6. As the old saying goes, fly what you are prepared to lose. In fact, consider whatever you are undocking as lost already. So check your ISK budget before undocking. It is the same as playing an FPS - you will die frequently and you will respawn again, except in Eve you lose a lot more.
7. Finally don't frustrate other players by asking questions that are covered by tutorials and career agents already. Besides - you will want to do the career agents for all the free ships and goodies you get via them anyway.

The rest will come naturally as you learn the game (i.e. Ship fitting, The Market, Working with the overview etc...). And you can still learn a lot through NPC corps, forums, YouTube and trial/error without relying on some muppet in a player corp to train you :P

If you don't follow my advice, well then either you're one in a thousand or you will quit the game soon after. Do not listen to the more experienced players, they will still tell you to join X corp as soon as possible coz they has cookies and that this is all BS :) But you will learn ;) And they went through all this when the rules/environment was a little different so what do they know :P

Cheers.


Please do not give any advice anymore. It's rubbish.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#28 - 2016-09-14 13:55:55 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:


But dude, basically what you've said I covered in the OP? You've pretty much repeated my advice but called mine wrong?

I never said spend a year in HiSec. I said get to at least a respectable level and ISK count (Lv 4 Cruiser and 50 -100 mil ISK) first and do not rush from day 1 into nullsec else you will regret it. That's good advice no? In fact, isn't that obvious?


No it is not. You are telling people to set "fun barriers" for themselves. When you have people set "goals" (like "I will go to null when i have x amount of SP"), you are setting them up for failure, because they will meet that goal, get bored waiting, and quit. Or if they don't quit they will make a new goal to meet, and rinse, repeat until they do quit, because you've helkped them form the image that EVE outside of high sec requires loads of preperation.

It doesn't, Goons, TEST, Eve-uni, agony, Brave, krama, Horde and many more have proved that. You think you are telling people to be prepared, but you aren't, you are telling them to be bored. What's worse is that you don't realize this becaus eyou don't have enough experience to know why what you are saying is wrong.

Quote:

And I ALSO said get into FW for early PvP if desired.

It is all about preparing first before rushing in and expecting a good experience.

Sorry if I misunderstood?


Preparation isn't the mother of innovation (learning), necessity is. EVE's history (and CCPs research) has revealed over and over again that the best thing to do is to just do it (and fail, which spurs learning and strong emotions to get pay back, which creates emotional ties to the game that keep people playing). your advice delays this process, and every second that process is delayed, the chance of losing a new player increases. This is why I say "If you want to help a new player, don't coddle him, kick his ass, years later he will thank you for it".

What's odd is how CCP shot themselves in the foot with all the safeties and pop ups that reinforce the wrong lessons to new eve players. Those features help newbies not screw up (like accidentally jumping into low sec, like I did my 1st week in EVE).

Correlation is not necessarily causation, but having said that I will point out that EVEs supposed decline did coincide with CCPs efforts to lower barriers for people (which includes all the "warning, you are about to do something dumb" pop ups). The BEST things that ever happened in EVE were born for screw ups, from corp hiests to the battle of B-R, and here is CCP preventing people from screwing up.
Memphis Baas
#29 - 2016-09-14 14:00:45 UTC
Facts:

1. This is a PVP game.
2. Developers put a lot of effort into PVP combat / balance; PVE content isn't polished.
3. High-sec is an overcrowded cesspit of misery and low rewards for any activity.

4. This game is a sandbox. Meaning there are no progression quests to guide you along. If you play solo, you have to do everything solo, including coming up with reasons for playing. If you play in a group, you can use the group's goals. Solo play = like a child playing by him/herself with a toy truck or doll or whatever. Group play = like a session of pen-and-paper DnD or board games or whatever, with others.

5. The fun depends on the quality of the other players you associate with. Of course it does. Every game is like that. So playing solo in high-sec, you just encounter the jerks, because that's where they are. And because nobody cares about you, they're only interested in being assholes and shooting you. Playing in a group, you belong in the group, at least they treat you with some dignity, even if they otherwise suck at the game. But if they don't suck... it's pure joy.

6. Look up the actual newbie-help plans and ship-replacement policies to some of the big established groups. You don't just get a cruiser, more likely you get hundreds of millions of ISK in free voluntary gifts, and free ships for life.

As far as going to null sec, specifically, JUMP CLONES are a thing. They don't even require standings. Just train a skill to 2-3 points and you're set.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#30 - 2016-09-14 14:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Just from me (a moderately inexperienced player who has made the same mistakes over and over), to all the up and coming newbies of Eve Online - Especially for when the clone states kick in.

1. DO NOT apply with any player run corporation for a while. No matter how well intentioned they are or how willing they are to teach you. You will find yourself war dec'd by HiSec griefers like Marmite Collective and so on and you will be unable to do much in the game except hide away all the time.
2. DO NOT apply with a nullsec corp for a while either. Not only for the same reason above, but if you have low skill/training, low ISK and so on you're not going to find this game fun. You will feel useless and trapped and without a market in nullsec and will be at the mercy of higher ranking members. Basically, you're cannon fodder. Again, no offense to them and no matter how well intentioned they are.
3. Consider sticking with an NPC corp until you have at least 50 - 100 mil ISK and can fly a cruiser at 4 or 5 mastery before considering any of the above. That means doing missions, exploring, mining (If it must be done), industry etc... and getting well acquainted with the game. Do not rush to nullsec or rush into PvP. NPC corps cannot be war dec'd so this reduces griefing chances in HiSec to all but those who want to suicide gank you.
4. If you do want PvP experience early on, consider Faction Warfare instead. Use it as a learning path also.
5. Learn how to evade gate camps and traps as quickly as possible. Lots of YouTube, google links etc... to research. Use a shuttle where necessary and don't put your good ships at risk unnecessarily if you need to fetch a small market item a few jumps away.
6. As the old saying goes, fly what you are prepared to lose. In fact, consider whatever you are undocking as lost already. So check your ISK budget before undocking. It is the same as playing an FPS - you will die frequently and you will respawn again, except in Eve you lose a lot more.
7. Finally don't frustrate other players by asking questions that are covered by tutorials and career agents already. Besides - you will want to do the career agents for all the free ships and goodies you get via them anyway.
While your advice is probably well meant, for the most part it's also terrible.

1. Join a corp with competent leadership, not one lead by somebody that is ignorant about, or unwilling to accept, the nature of the game. Wardecs aren't something you need to hide from, due to mechanics changes they're incredibly easy to avoid if you're not dumb because 99% of the wardec corps now stick to where the easy meat is, trade routes and hubs; they're also not greifers.

2. Many of the nullsec corps that take on newbies will shower them with ships, advice and fun activities to partake in.

3. If that's what you want to do it's fine, let others make their own choices; as far as many of us are concerned most of the NPC corps have a significant percentage of people that are poison to newbies, feeding them misinformation about PvP, lowsec and nullsec etc, you're literally parroting their bile.

4. Joining FW is one of the two exceptions to the terrible advice contained in your post.

5. How will people learn to evade gatecamps and the like if they follow most of your advice? Also shuttles get popped because they often contain succulent loot.

6. Flying something you're prepared to lose is the second exception to your otherwise terrible advice.

7. The tutorials and career agents only give the very basics, if you can demonstrate that you have a grip on those other players are usually more than willing to expand upon them when asked nicely.

Quote:
The rest will come naturally as you learn the game (i.e. Ship fitting, The Market, Working with the overview etc...). And you can still learn a lot through NPC corps, forums, YouTube and trial/error without relying on some muppet in a player corp to train you :P
The rest comes with experience, and that experience comes from interacting with other players; preferably ones that know what they're doing.Roll

Quote:
If you don't follow my advice, well then either you're one in a thousand or you will quit the game soon after.
Following your advice is likely to make them quit before they otherwise would, because you're encouraging them to do the most boring activities in Eve.

Quote:
Do not listen to the more experienced players, they will still tell you to join X corp as soon as possible coz they has cookies and that this is all BS :) But you will learn ;)
Why not listen to more experienced players? They have a wealth of experience and knowledge to share. We advise people to join a player corp for good reason, playing with a group is much more fun than playing solo as well as being very educational.

Quote:
And they went through all this when the rules/environment was a little different so what do they know :P
Most of us went through it when the NPE consisted of "here's a Rubik's cube, now go f*** yourself"; the environment was also much more dangerous than it is today; however a lot of us also know just how dire the current NPE is and try our best to alleviate the problems with it by offering help and advice that is the result of years of experience.

TL;DR You are in no position to advise newbies about anything at all, as you've aptly demonstrated by your terrible OP and subsequent posts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#31 - 2016-09-14 14:34:35 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

And if you read the pages of some of these corps, that is exactly their intention :) But we can of course argue what is considered the true intention of HiSec... whatevs. No biggy.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#32 - 2016-09-14 14:37:04 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Let me try paint a picture here.

You're a brand new player with no idea what you're doing. You have few rookie and frig ships and close to zero ISK. You've barely experienced missions and Eve lore and so on.

So you're in HiSec and you get sold on the idea of joining a NullSec corp with all the promise of training and help... You join the corp. Now you've gotta make your way to their staging or area or base.

You can either:

1. Remote set medical clone and pod yourself and arrive with a capsule
2. Risk your best frig or destroyer and fly there (And hope to arrive with it past all the war dec's and camps)
3. Shuttle there and arrive with shuttle

Either way, you arrive with little to fkall. Now what do you do??? You can no longer run with missions or experience the rest of Eve lore. You're permanently in more danger than you can handle.

So let's say the corp gifts you a decent cruiser and fit (If you're lucky). And let's say they're always doing something fun. What can you do now?

1. Go ratting. Oh the joy of joys. At least the ISK is okay for a newbie. But it wears thin after a few days.
2. Join an op, and feel pretty useless at it for a long time. Though, again if you're lucky, the guys will at least keep you engaged and show you the finer points of PvP. But don't expect there to be something happening all the time, and if there isn't you're basically trapped. There is no market around and you have absolutely no idea what to do.
3. Again, if you're lucky, they will gift you a mining barge and you can go mining a bit or join a mining op. But that's about it.

Remember, you've now sold out the rest of Eve experience and you're trapped in nullsec save for a long training time on a jump clone or a lucky wormhole escape. And when you're back in HiSec you're still at risk and your leader won't want to see you causing red all over his killboard either.

Does that about cover the nullsec experience for a newbie (At least for a few months) or did I miss anything?


Yes, you missed quite a lot. You join a corp with a decent history and a large memberbase. You ask how they help new players. To get out to null they help you. You either catch a ride with a fleet that's moving out there, you have fun risking that frigate to fly out yourself (a month into the game that was a hell of a lot of fun for me), and when you get there you use the local market (because pretty much anywhere in null has one) to buy a few ships and get settled.

More often than not an experienced player throws a half dozen ships at you for free to get you started.

What do you want to do in this game, exactly? It sounds like you just don't like EVE.

And don't create whine threads and ragequit your corp over a single coercer loss.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#33 - 2016-09-14 14:42:09 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

And if you read the pages of some of these corps, that is exactly their intention :) But we can of course argue what is considered the true intention of HiSec... whatevs. No biggy.

Eve has some uniqueness compared to many other games, so CCP has a specific policy on griefing new players:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

Other aggression is generally not griefing. It's within the rules of the game.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#34 - 2016-09-14 14:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

And if you read the pages of some of these corps, that is exactly their intention :) But we can of course argue what is considered the true intention of HiSec... whatevs. No biggy.
That's the general definition, however CCPs definition is the one that counts in Eve, they even go so far as to list wardecs, which are a specific mechanic and thus not unintended, as explicitly not harassment.

CCP wrote:
War Declarations are a risk that every player corporation has to face and they are under no circumstances considered harassment.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-09-14 14:48:25 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Let me try paint a picture here.

You're a brand new player with no idea what you're doing. You have few rookie and frig ships and close to zero ISK. You've barely experienced missions and Eve lore and so on.

So you're in HiSec and you get sold on the idea of joining a NullSec corp with all the promise of training and help... You join the corp. Now you've gotta make your way to their staging or area or base.

You can either:

1. Remote set medical clone and pod yourself and arrive with a capsule
2. Risk your best frig or destroyer and fly there (And hope to arrive with it past all the war dec's and camps)
3. Shuttle there and arrive with shuttle

Either way, you arrive with little to fkall. Now what do you do??? You can no longer run with missions or experience the rest of Eve lore. You're permanently in more danger than you can handle.

So let's say the corp gifts you a decent cruiser and fit (If you're lucky). And let's say they're always doing something fun. What can you do now?

1. Go ratting. Oh the joy of joys. At least the ISK is okay for a newbie. But it wears thin after a few days.
2. Join an op, and feel pretty useless at it for a long time. Though, again if you're lucky, the guys will at least keep you engaged and show you the finer points of PvP. But don't expect there to be something happening all the time, and if there isn't you're basically trapped. There is no market around and you have absolutely no idea what to do.
3. Again, if you're lucky, they will gift you a mining barge and you can go mining a bit or join a mining op. But that's about it.

Remember, you've now sold out the rest of Eve experience and you're trapped in nullsec save for a long training time on a jump clone or a lucky wormhole escape. And when you're back in HiSec you're still at risk and your leader won't want to see you causing red all over his killboard either.

Does that about cover the nullsec experience for a newbie (At least for a few months) or did I miss anything?


Yes, you missed quite a lot. You join a corp with a decent history and a large memberbase. You ask how they help new players. To get out to null they help you. You either catch a ride with a fleet that's moving out there, you have fun risking that frigate to fly out yourself (a month into the game that was a hell of a lot of fun for me), and when you get there you use the local market (because pretty much anywhere in null has one) to buy a few ships and get settled.

More often than not an experienced player throws a half dozen ships at you for free to get you started.

What do you want to do in this game, exactly? It sounds like you just don't like EVE.

And don't create whine threads and ragequit your corp over a single coercer loss.


Why am I getting the impression I have more first hand experience with this aspect of the game than experienced players?? I don't mean to sound arrogant here. This is not how it works at all!!

I've been with HiSec corps (Avalon springs to mind)
I've been with Pandemic Horde
I've just now recently left another nullsec corp

A fun fleet from Hisec to Null?? In what world has this ever happened??
An experienced player throwing ships at you for free? Well I guess that can happen, but think of how many times it would happen for all the new comers in November.
A market in Nullsec?? That a newbie can even afford let alone find? This doesn't even make a lick of sense?

Sorry if I sound a little off here but I'm not convinced at all. I've been there, multiple times.

And again I ask how a newbie is supposed to derive fun from those first few weeks/months experiencing what I've painted above.

Meh... I dunno
Josh Sharvas
Doomheim
#36 - 2016-09-14 14:50:10 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

And if you read the pages of some of these corps, that is exactly their intention :) But we can of course argue what is considered the true intention of HiSec... whatevs. No biggy.

Eve has some uniqueness compared to many other games, so CCP has a specific policy on griefing new players:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

Other aggression is generally not griefing. It's within the rules of the game.


My point still stands. A newbie cannot deal with that unless he finds and meets Mr Amazing Corporation Care Bear to help him :) You guys seem to think this applies to everyone because it applies to you.

Arrrrghh!
Arcelian
0nus
#37 - 2016-09-14 14:52:48 UTC
Very good troll.

Hook. Line. Sinker.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#38 - 2016-09-14 14:53:27 UTC
What great advice. Dont leave highsec until you're level V at everything for the one ship you want to fly. Should be good to go after 3 or 4 years

@lunettelulu7
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#39 - 2016-09-14 14:53:40 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Meh... I dunno
That much is obvious.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#40 - 2016-09-14 14:54:42 UTC
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Josh Sharvas wrote:


So what I've seen from my recent experience is that there are corps / alliances out there who war dec EVERY other corp they find for no reason other than to find victims and get kills. They then hang around in HiSec waiting for any war target / victim to hit their gate camp.



Uhuh, that's not griefing, try again.


"A griefer is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."

And if you read the pages of some of these corps, that is exactly their intention :) But we can of course argue what is considered the true intention of HiSec... whatevs. No biggy.

Eve has some uniqueness compared to many other games, so CCP has a specific policy on griefing new players:

https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing

Other aggression is generally not griefing. It's within the rules of the game.


My point still stands. A newbie cannot deal with that unless he finds and meets Mr Amazing Corporation Care Bear to help him :) You guys seem to think this applies to everyone because it applies to you.

Arrrrghh!

No, it explicitly doesn't.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

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