Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No, merely having docking rights should not, under any circumstance, allow you to grant anyone else ANY form of right on a structure.

Merely having rights doesn't give you the authority to grant rights, however temporary. It's not your structure just because someone lets you dock at it.

The thing is, you cannot use them in the citadels. This was also my concern with random docking rights. However, even if enemies throw loads of assets into your citadel, you can just prevent them from using your services and thus they are stuck with tons of items in the citadel. The way citadels work with asset safety, it is not the holder of the citadel that ends up screwed, but the asset owners because you can just dismantle your citadel or make other people destroy it to force tons of assets into item safety, which costs the asset owner money and not the citadel owner.

One way or another, currently it's nearly completely unfeasible to take a courier contract to any citadel other than the known market hubs. And even they are tricky: For instance, there are 2 Fortizars from 2 corps in Perimeter with 2 nearly identical corp logos, however, only one has public docking rights. The info on docking access is obviously available in the Services tab, but it's still way too easy to trick people into thinking they deliver somewhere else. Taking the first paragraph into consideration, there need to be ways to complete courier contracts if you had docking rights when you took the contracts.

don't take contracts to places you can be locked out from.. that has been like hauling 101 since long b4 citadels

Not, it has not been this way. Before citadels, this was not a problem at all in low sec, high sec and NPC null sec. Only sov space had this problem and no one cared because nearly no public contracts go to these destinations. However, now that fluid docking rights are also a mandatory and ever increasing problem in all areas of space, and citadels and coming structures turning into a permanent pain in the ... a permanent feature replacing much if not all the functionalities of NPC stations, this puts a previously negligible problem into a major cause for concern.

In particular with the coming industry structures, you want your couriered deliveries land directly in these structures and not an NPC station (if there are any at all in your systems. Since the purpose of these pains in the ... these new structures is to spread players out more, it's only logical to chose systems without stations for industry structures to benefit longer from low indexes) so that you had to ferry your stuff from there to the structures. If haulers, however, have no way to distinguish between a citadel that allows you to dock regardless and a scam citadel, most people will be very reluctant to take on citadel contracts. To date, I have blocked over 20 people/corps that setup scam contracts and that list is only increasing.
If no one can take a contract because you can be locked out (according to your hauler 101), this will pose a serious problem for the future of this entire feature once large parts of the reliable NPC services have been replaced with the unreliable, garbage services that players provide.

you will always have the option to set up a contract to a near by station or work with people you know. get to know haulers if you want things moved to your citadel otherwise have public contracts set up to npc stations

What do you imagine is the actual merit in the status quo here?

You don't seem to be able to articulate an argument against improving the functionality of the contracts with respect to citadels. Explain why courier contracts shouldn't be improved. There's not a person in the thread unfamiliar with the existing workarounds, but that's what they are - a workaround for a poor mechanic that provides insufficient functionality.

I agree in that I don't think couriers should give people docking passes, because it opens up so many avenues for exploit.

1) I buy a single piece of trit or something in a station I want access to with my alt. I then contract it to my main with a courier contract. My main can now dock at that citadel.

2) I have a spy in a corp, and I want to get in a large enemy fleet. I set up tons of contracts to every enemy ship. They can now all dock up there, even though I had 0 roles within the corp that owns the citadel.

3) I create a contract with the destination of any citadel that I want a character to be able to dock at, they can now dock there.

That's just off the top of my head. Security and access to citadels and other deployables should be able to be strictly controlled, and this sort of, facilitating couriers would absolutely destroy player security.

What I DO think is the only reasonable precautions is a two step process.

First, you have to manually opt-in to see contracts that involve a player owned structure (citadel, engineering facility, etc) as either the drop-off or pick up,

Second, there is a very large 'are you sure' dialogue, when trying to accept said type of contract, with a brief explanation that standings may limit your docking access.

there was an idea posted back when citadels were still on sisi


what if you could flag your citadel as free port(this would show up in contracts) if your citadel is free port anyone can dock to remove your citadel from free port takes one week. once you start that process the flag is instantly removed from contracts listed to your citadel and all current contract holders are notified

Can't we just leave it as is so non deep thinkers can get screwed over as their greed allows?

The current trend where CCP is trying to satisfy needy little self entitled punkass kids is reducing this game to a boring and uninteresting grind where everyone gets a space trophy.

News flash CCP - these needy little bastards don't say thank you when you bow down to them, they move on to the next thing that 'needs' changed. You're throwing stupidshit into a bottomless pit. You're basically being played by 2 groups: Group 1 - needy little bastards that will never be satisfied but will always need just one more free space trophy. Group 2 - savy folk who are out to manipulate the game for their personal enjoyment (that does not equate out to anything like long term gain sustainability).

PRO TIP: If you want to keep your cash cow happy - rediscover your decade old fundamentals, build on those and on game mechanics that support those fundamental concepts and for the love of all that is harsh and cruel - STOP kowtowing to these needy little twerps. Hand them a hockey helmet (I would prefer it didn't have a chinstrap) and say "good luck".

TL/DR - seems OK as is to me

Sure it is, this scam is a decade old and scamming people is just as much a part of EVE as mining and gate camps.