Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I recently returned to EVE after a multi-year hiatus and I brought a number of friends with me. Unfortunately, after a few months in, every one of those new players has bailed out. They loved the game, but found that most of their time and profits were going into refitting ships and avoiding gankers. (personally, I had enough cash reserves that I could float them for awhile, but even with that, the game ceased to be fun).

I realize that ganking is a part of the game (for better or worse) and that to use the EULA or code of conduct to correct it would be a complete violation of the open concept of the game. However, ganking is creating an untenable environment for new players and it's ultimately hurting the game.

The main problem is that, unlike the real world, the benefits of ganking *far* outweigh the deterrents. The game mechanics don't allow players to impose any sort of meaningful punishment on the gankers. It is essentially a no-risk activity.

In the real world, the threat and reality of permanent death either deters the behavior or limits the repeatability. That's not the case in EVE. Gankers often respawn and suicide attack repeatedly in a single sortie. There should be a cool-down timer on respawns for illegal attackers based on the security level of the area and the standing of the player with the dominant faction. This would help to level the playing field and deter spam ganking in high-sec while allowing the wild west in other areas. This would be totally inline with "reality" as upstanding citizens should have priority over criminals at the vats.

Incarceration serves as a deterrent for criminals in reality and it takes them out of circulation where they can't do any harm. However, in EVE, Concord just kills you and you immediately respawn. Gankers just laugh at the threat and will smash into you with a cop standing right next to you. If Concord had the ability to capture and detain (or block respawns), it would be much more of a threat and inconvenience to the gankers. Again, like reality, incarceration time could be implemented as a function of the security level of the zone where they were captured and the standing of the player with the dominant faction (or with Concord). For those who cry that this would inconvenience the gankers, consider the players who rely on "high sec" actually being "high sec". As it is today, the security levels just range from "get killed by NPCs" to "get killed by players".

In reality, law enforcement would also have the ability to seize the the proceeds of illegal activity and assets of criminals if caught, a mechanism that doesn't exist in EVE today. If players want to live the thug-life, let them have the thrill of the risk as well. Force them to hide assets or risk impound/confiscation by Concord. That would likely keep all but the most determined gankers out of Concord space.

The game also allows the gankers full benefit of the infrastructure and technology (cloning, stargates, markets) which would, in a real society, be continually adjusted and monitored to help prevent the support of illegal activity. Ships can be filtered and restricted at acceleration gates, so why wouldn't law enforcement put filters on stargates? (or at least monitor entry and pursue when a known criminal enters their space). Make criminals cross the border through the woods if they're deep enough in the red to be on a no-entry list. Either that or implement "false identity"/"fake transponder" equipment that they'd need to keep buying in order to keep using the gates in high-sec.

None of these suggestions would eliminate ganking, but it would help to push it out of high-sec and still stay within the game reality. Citizens of high-sec regions would have been pushing officials to deal with the terrorist threat and demanding that Concord step up. Truly determined gankers could still hunt in high-sec, but at least the risks would be a bit more realistic and new players/alts would have somewhat of a safe harbor to play in and level up.

Eve is a game, not real life. Criminals and criminal game play have been purposely put in the game by CCP for many reasons we can get into in detail, but in short CCP thinks it makes the game more interesting. How would locking out players from playing as a criminal make for good game play? Wouldn't it just be better to turn off aggression in highsec and let the highsec criminals go do something else in Eve than force them to stare at their screens unable to undock?

Again this isn't reality. In reality, a criminal might expect to get away with a crime rather than an omnipotent, infallible police force exploding them 100% of the time.

If you completely removed the profit motivation for pirates, why would they engage in the activity in the first place? Aside from the odd whale which take significant effort to identify, highsec piracy isn't very profitable ever since insurance was removed for criminals. That doesn't seem like a good idea to foster the criminal game play CCP wants to take place in highsec.

It already takes significant determination to play the game as a highsec criminal - multiple accounts, dedicated alts, external funding and so forth - setting a high bar to get in as a solo career criminal, and it is even harder to make a living at it. So much so that highsec ganking is probably at or near all times lows. Highsec has never been safer.

If you are having problems dealing with gankers, I suggest you ask for some advice in another section of these forums or in another place to get some tips on the simple things you can do that make you almost perfectly safe from being attacked in highsec.

CCP intends for you to have to protect your stuff in highsec. There are more than enough tools to do so so I suggest you try to use them before you ask for the yet one more (or in your case several more) nerf that will finally make highsec criminal game play "balanced".

Why did your friends fail to adapt by making themselves less attractive gank targets? This is not difficult to do. The economics of ganking are only "unbalanced" because chumps/perpetual victims refuse to adapt.

Someone came along and blew up your Mackinaw, you responded by getting a new Mackinaw and getting blown up in the same damn system the very next day!

Why didn't you relocate? Why didn't you use a Skiff instead? Whose fault is this, really? Why should the game be changed to accommodate your inability to learn from your mistakes, and utilize that new knowledge to make better decisions in the future?

There is a 15 minute timer (Global Criminal Countdown) in which Concord will WTFBBQPWN anything, that isn't a pod, that a suicide ganker undocks in or boards; which is why it's mechanically impossible for suicide gankers to "respawn" and attack repeatedly in a single sortie.

I suggest that you learn how the current mechanics work before suggesting "improvements".

Edit nobody in Eve actually respawns unless they die, gankers dock up in their pods,

Blah blah blah, it's a game not real life, gankers fronload risk, and yes these changes would kill ganking. Same stupid debunked garbage over and over again. Ganking should be made easier, not harder. It's about the only fun thing left to do in this stagnant risk averse cesspit of a game.

Did you know that in the waters off the Somali coast, and in other similar areas, there are in fact real modern pirates? In spite of the waters being patrolled by multiple naval forces.

Generally speaking these pirates use cheap boats, and shock tactics. They get in, get their booty/hostages, and get out. The navy (concord) respond when they get a distress call, but often it is too late. If you want it to be more like real life, make it so you have to open a chat window with concord first (and make ECM block chatting).

How about bank robbers. One would think that the profitability of robbing a bank would be poor, given that law enforcement generally "get their man" (sometimes they just "get a man" irrespective of guilt). Oddly, there are still plenty of bank robbers. Or convenience store robbers.

I'm not a ganker. The playstyle isn't appealing to me. I've also never been ganked (at least, not hisec ganked). That said, if you're making yourselves an easy target, that's on you. Tank your ship more and haul less.

Don't be a target, simple. If you pose yourself as an interesting target then you can expect attention in EVE.

For a large part you are in control over your experiences in EVE.

Ganking has no risk, and to think otherwise is ridicules. If they want to kill something let them wardec, even the NPC corps. Killing outside a wardec should have a fine of at least the ship cost. Forces the ganker to plan better if they are willing to take risk outside a wardec. If they feel their chances of drops will out weigh the fine, then more power to them.

I think high sec ganking should be banned, it is not fun for most players.

A criminal timer lasts 15 minutes and criminals cannot board a new ship while in space and if they undock while criminal, will be immediately CONCORDed.

I don't think you quite understand what you think.