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Why do artys miss?
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Tone Tsero
Nitta Ltd
#1 - 2016-08-18 20:01:40 UTC
I jump into a mission, there are a few BS's and loads of Sentry Guns/MIssile Batteries. OK I'm screaming away with my MWD, but there are a couple of sentry guns within 30km of me, my artys have an optimal range of 37km, and the Sentry Guns have no transverse velocity. So as I read the formulae for hits, I should hit every time, but I contuinue to absolute miss.

Could someone explain where I am misreading the formulae?

Thanks
Tony
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#2 - 2016-08-18 22:17:33 UTC
Stop moving. That might help.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-08-18 23:00:04 UTC
Tone Tsero wrote:
I jump into a mission, there are a few BS's and loads of Sentry Guns/MIssile Batteries. OK I'm screaming away with my MWD, but there are a couple of sentry guns within 30km of me, my artys have an optimal range of 37km, and the Sentry Guns have no transverse velocity. So as I read the formulae for hits, I should hit every time, but I contuinue to absolute miss.

Could someone explain where I am misreading the formulae?

Thanks
Tony


Transversal velocity takes into account your own movement as well, just because something is sitting still doesn't mean you can track it no matter how fast you are moving.

Imagine you're on a merry-go-round and you have a hoop you have to throw a ball through in the middle of it, the faster you're spinning the harder it is to get it through right?

Art of Explosions
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4 - 2016-08-18 23:13:55 UTC
Sig size can be a factor here too. Mission Sentries tend to have a wide range of sig sizes, some very large and bloated, others designed to imitate a frig or dessy.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-08-19 03:49:32 UTC
650mm Arty's have better Tracking and faster fire / reload rate than 720mm Arty's. They also use less powergrid and cpu for fitting.

Other than training up skills, fitting up modules like Tracking Enhancers and Tracking Computer with active Tracking script will greatly increase chance to hit.

Also shut down MWD and just pulse it to keep range from the pack when needed.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Tone Tsero
Nitta Ltd
#6 - 2016-08-19 13:06:43 UTC
I agree transverse velocity is a factor of targets velocity and mine, but I have tv shown in the overview so maybe a better question is why does the overview always show zero transverse for stationary objects even when it's not cos of my velocity
Thanks
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-08-19 14:07:16 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
650mm Arty's have better Tracking and faster fire / reload rate than 720mm Arty's.



Please clarify, every projectile weapon system in the game currently has a standard 10 second reload period.

@OP I believe that's just a coding failure, stationary objects obviously have no internal velocity of their own so calculating something against 0 might just not be within the formula they use for that overview column

Art of Explosions
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#8 - 2016-08-19 18:51:07 UTC
Maybe by "reload rate" he meant the fact that due to capacity versus rate of fire, 650mm will go on longer without a reload than 720mm. Just my guess anyways.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-08-19 20:05:46 UTC
OK, my mistake about faster reload rate. But 650 Arty's do have a faster fire rate and better tracking than 720 Arty's.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Victoria Ewans
Inefficient Canadian Cosmic Conglomerate
#10 - 2016-08-22 01:56:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Ewans
All turrets dmg are related to 2 things DAMAGE and % Chance to Hit.

here some info about turret mechanics:

DMG:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage

% CHANCES TO HIT:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_201

Trasversale velocity:
http://www.hostile.dk/files/eve/eve-tracking101.swf (super guide MUST See!!!)

General info:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_101
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gunnery_Guide

So, turret rely on few factors:

Range: optimal and falloff between you and your target
Signature: difference between gun resolution and target signature radius
Tracking: relation between tracking speed of your guns and transversale velocity of your target

In your specific case: if you were within your optimal range of your turrets and you were attacking a "building" you had no problem with your range and your signature component.

Wich leads us to a tracking problem. According to your overview, your target transversal speed was 0 wich indicate that your target was static. However, as you it is teached in the web sources above, the transversal velocities are tie to yours and your opponnet's one.

Your overview will always display a tranversal and angular velocity of 0 when you are attacking a building anchored in space, a NPC one or a player's one, even if you are moving.

However, note that if you were MWD away from that building, your personnal transversal velocity, was probably higher than your gun's trackning speed.

Roughly:

Tranversale Velocity = Perpendicular global velocity / distance between you and your target

So, if you were speeding away at 1200m/s with MWD on and you were at 30km perpendicular from your traget, odds are that your own personnal transversal velocity was skyrocketing, hence zero-ing your chances to hit.

et Voilà.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2016-08-24 14:22:16 UTC
Because I can and because it is somewhat relevant.
Missiles in missions have many trouble areas, however missing a target completely is not one of them.
Gorr Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#12 - 2016-08-26 14:37:18 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Because I can and because it is somewhat relevant.
Missiles in missions have many trouble areas, however missing a target completely is not one of them.

Are the NPC defender missiles still a thing, by any chance?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2016-09-10 20:52:16 UTC
Gorr Shakor wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:
Because I can and because it is somewhat relevant.
Missiles in missions have many trouble areas, however missing a target completely is not one of them.

Are the NPC defender missiles still a thing, by any chance?

I don't think NPC's have Defender Missiles.

However back before CCP did the ship re-balance, I was running level 3 missions with 6 Arty's and 2 Hvy Missile Launchers on my Hurricane. To help reduce the incoming DPS I used Defender Missiles. I'd activate one launcher and when it was half way through it's cycle, activate the other launcher. That way I was able to knock out most of the incoming NPC missiles. Course that was also before CCP split Defender Missiles up into lite and heavy classes.

Anyway, Defender Missiles seemed to work great for me, especially since I had them trained up to level 5. I think their use against NPC missiles is still viable.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#14 - 2016-09-11 05:37:31 UTC
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Velocities

Use angular, Transversal is deceiving as "2500" of something thats zipping 2 km past you is not the same as "2500" of a target 200 km away that a blind naga pilot can track Bittervets tend to use "transversal" when they really mean "angular" (trap for new players!- Dave).

Angular closest to 0 and range closest to optimal for maximum bang. Can be closer but than each movement screws up tracking more and more, so best to be in the sweetspot (or further away to reduce angular, arties have huge falloff so not a big dmg loss)


Idk why structures show 0 even when player's ship is moving. Probably classified as stationary parts of the map and server does not calculate velocities for them.


Sansha's Station Ultima has defender missiles that can nullify missile dmg.

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#15 - 2016-09-13 16:28:23 UTC
You run into the same problem with railguns sometimes too, I had an issue where my thorax was going way to fast and couldnt hit a POS Gun one time years ago, you could manually adjust the speed your going by clicking on the dial under your Capacitor HUD and set it to say 50% which would allow you to track the gun, fire, kill and then hit the + again to take off before anything gets back in range.

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Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#16 - 2016-09-15 16:00:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Blade Darth
DeMichaelDefender wrote:
Missiles seemed to work great for me, especially since I had them trained up to level 5. I think their use against NPC missiles is still viable.
Duh, only against npc's, if that.

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