Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It would not break anything.... the aoe thinngy would be limited the "ray" would be only towards one ship.... and 0.00 has foe cynojammers and didn´t break the game by now! You just cyno in on grid andrewarp... do the cyno at the other side of the game ...blah blah blah ... it would be a change for your as a high skilled (soft skills) pilot to shine....( hence where this is comming from?).
SO CYNOS NEED A COUNTER !!!! ONE I CAN TAKE WITH ME!
Since my first hotdrop ... when my hac got dropped ... until my BC losses to supers ... because you can even jump onto the smallest thing with your supers it is one of my wildest dreams :_)=! And again... everything should have a counter but not a counter drop!

cynos are how you catch the risk averse who run from anything they are not 100% sure they are going to beat. besides if you don't like cynos HS and WH don't have them. thats the magic of eve there are different places with different rules go find the one that suits you best

there is two forms of jamers to counter cynos... the kind of counter you want (as pointed out) is not the counter you want and just becomes first to get caps in wins



EDIT:

unless the mod was not aoe and only worked one ship at a time(could still fit more than one mod per ship) that i could see being plausible and could add in some meta gaming they would also probably either need to be fitable only to bonused ships or have around 9k range on unbonused ships

Lol why are we changing the fuel type for cynos? Or in your obcerdist ravings did you manage to confuse yourself?

You might be exaggerating just a bit here........





They are effective. As a guy who was in.... Oh.. Suddenly Spaceships., alliance for the better part of 3 years, Ticker CYN0 .... they can be effective. They just require some forethought to use, not an instant 'Oh there's a cyno, let me just click my counter cyno and blam!'

I've personally been involved with fights where the onlining or destroying of a cyno inhibitor greatly changed how that fight would have otherwise gone.


Let's try to keep things a little bit grounded in reality, shall we?

Your gameplay balance you're looking for was jump fatigue. Using those two carriers on a couple cruisers costs those carrier pilots jump fatigue, in the hopes they can get a couple cruisers before they can get out of scram range and warp off. Also in hopes of those cruisers not themselves having black up.


Failure to come prepared does not devalue the game play at hand. You've played this game long enough to know that's how it works, and the way it needs to work. A couple cruisers should 150% not be able to just click an iwin button and have no worries about the other guy coming prepared.


Bad example.

No, it doesn't, and you're right about being prepared, but I don't think that some of the strongest ships in the game need any more than their on-grid stats to win fights. Carriers and HAW dreads are stupidly powerful against subcaps and the jump drive kind of breaks offset between a hulls strength and the opportunity cost of how long it can get to grid or move on grid.

I'm not attacking anything you've written by writing the following, it's more of a rant to let out some steam, but there are a lot of bad arguments that are used in this thread to support jump drives. Saying something like they counter risk aversion isn't the whole story. It can work both ways, you can cyno in or out of a fight, they can be used just as defensively as they are used offensively. If you're within jump range you don't need to commit your caps if you feel the situation is out of hand. Killboards and alliance tickers are easy enough to check when your scout is on point.

The same can be said for blopsing. The only tool that you need to expose to risk is your hunting ship. The drop is optional, and you make a call based on how much risk you're willing to endure. The more dps you bring to the drop, that faster you destroy your target, and the less risk you expose yourself to. That's why the sin has a 96% KB ratio, despite the high hull cost, the (usually) expensive fitting. After the drop you can simply cloak up at a safe and cyno out at your convenience. It's a lot of fun, I admit; hunter tengus make hunting enjoyable and there's a lot to be said for the thrill of using a powerful and expensive ship to gank a pirate battleship. Part of what makes it so fun is dictating the terms on which the fight happens, similar to nanogang comps.

Mobile cyno inhibitors do introduce an element of counter play, but they're not a very good tool. There's been an extensive debate over these modules already on the subreddit that lays out the list of grievances associated with them, and I don't wish to spend my time paraphrasing what other people wrote more eloquently that I can.

As for baiting, trapdoor spider gameplay, and 'suddenly spaceships,' that's fine. I support this kind of gameplay, but there should be more risk associated with it. Travel time from a gate, station, safe or otherwise give players time to establish a counter play to your trap, other than simply out escalating with a counter drop. Keeping your assets hidden one system away is much more difficult and prone to mistakes or discovery than cynoing in from across the constellation.

Cynos reduce risk for ratting capitals greatly. Instant access to defenders within five LY or an exit cyno reduces the need for home defense fleets, which reduces PVP opportunity for both aggressors and defenders.

I know people who use jump drives like them, are unlikely to agree with anything I've written, and that what I say is going to be taken out of context, but I believe that the game would have been a better one if the devs had a little forsight concerning the potential implications of jump drives. At a time where caps couldn't take gates and weren't as threatening to subcaps things were very different, and I think the game would have been fine with some degree of jump fatigue or jump timers. Now, though, especially after the changes to fighters, and in particular the NSA and HAWs, they don't need that tool to be effective. Caps would still be extremely powerful as a tool for escalation or as an apex force, but it would come at the cost of larger travel times and poorer positioning. Blops are much different, and would have to be redesigned entirely, and to make them worth using the devs would probably need to consider delayed or no local chat for null and lowsec space.

The game needs to keep moving away from n+1, low risk, high reward gameplay. A clever aggressor should be able to use gate mechanics, dictors, etc to be able to impede the response of a defender, just as a defender should be able to do the same. Players attempting to catch a marauding neut should need to have a mix of light and heavy tackle available if they wish to hold a target for long enough for a carrier to arrive on grid. Caps should obey the same rules that govern subcaps and instant travel should be a thing of the past.

I recognize that cynos are unlikely to be changed and I fully expect plenty of posters to disagree with my statements and that's fine. The only thing that I really want people to recognize is that it's kind of insane, at least in the case of caps (or for any ship,) to have such incredibly high combat power on grid coupled with the ability to teleport from one system to a precise location in another.

Let me change something in your words..
A couple CARRIERS should 150% not be able to just click an iwin button and have no worries about the other guy coming prepared.

Carrier turned into an uber powerfull ship after last capital major changes, while it's price didn't change much. Today fitted carrier cost about 3bil or so and gives a very simple gameplay to it's owner. This ship can brake any subcapital active tanking in seconds, while having 1-5% chance to be killed especially in dockrange. Even if i see hardtank like Vargur or something i just log in my second carrier and drop two. I used to drop VEGA in Syndicate 3 days in a row on undock and didn't die, they even undocked and sieged 4 dreads + subcap support and couldn't kill me.

Lets be true to each other, counter drop carriers is a very hard job untill you are in alliance with 300 guys online. This makes impossible for small gang to counter carrier drop in sov space. It will take ages to shake up people to do something that will take time and not even 50% chance of success, meanwhile dudes on other side need to make just 2-3 clicks to get some easy kills and dubious fun and get back to carebearing after.

And I shout loud here about this because not being dropped first time for 10 years, but because playing eve for 10 years i know how easy to do it and real risks we take when doing it.
I understand many people here don't want to loose ability to abuse cynodrops and telling cool stories here about hard life of a hotdropper. You all know this is bs.. Let's just take a deep breath and try not to lie to people here.
Someone probably wont listen me and start telling about capital fights, home defending and so on.. That's why i'm saying again!
~ Delegating the role of instant cyno to combat force recons or any other exact line of ships will leave capital battles as they are. But in case of regular fights appearance of role cyno ship will be a signal to give more attention on this factor and make a decision. And allow me to recall that game must have balance. And balance is not when game is easy for everyone, but when not easy for everyone.

If we make it, this will bring somethign really fresh to eve. This probably will give a chance to bring back ships in space flying somewhere, doing some business. Explorers will be able to take their favorit battleships into a long journey in search of adventures and shiny cookies "old DEDs" used to hide.
Otherwise we will have in the end EVE full of people countering cyno by sitting in dock.

fatigue was added in the line of sov space changes. it didn't do any changes to cyno drops at all. it's hard to find one ship passing by in one hour, what are you talking about? stop this fantasies...

maybe you should check out my videos where i kill hacs+logis in a single thany. just let me know if you want the link