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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

First post
Author
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#161 - 2016-09-09 07:19:29 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
My god what a stupid conversation.

You wouldn't call someone a megalomaniac if they beat you at Chess? Would you assume someone who beat you at mortal combat was a murderer in the making? Would you assume that because he chooses Raiden he is a closet "Frozen" fan?

Long and short is that people who get smacked down a lot in EvE like to make themselves feel better by claiming some sort of moral superiority over their attacker. It makes them a bit warmer inside to feel at least in some way rightious as they swallow the bitter sticky load of failure.

It's a game, if someone plays inside the rules you have not a leg to stand on questioning their RL moral compass. Grow up.


The whole point of the OP's post IS about the game and people's perceptions of his morality, you talk about suggestive thing you should look at yourself before you tell others to grow up and learn to restrain yourself when it comes to posting nasty things where children my see it, this game is not just played by adults.


Holy ****ing Hell...morality. Dude it is a game.

It. Is. A. Game.

Just because somebody wants to be the "bad guy" in the game does not mean they are history's greatest monster.

What he is talking about is the over the top invective directed at him for doing things that were fully intended by the game designers.

He is not the issue, the people spewing invective...they have some issues.


I agree, people going ape and threatening others is not cool, I'm not questioning his morality I'm just pointing out why others would, your right in the end it's just a game, it is not really all that important in comparison to RL, but to some it may be all they have.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#162 - 2016-09-09 08:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.


Its is in this thread...


And I am seeing some of you gankers apply this comparisons to RL in terms of AG players which you refuse for yourself, please be consistent otherwise people will take you for hypocrites. Shocked

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

oiukhp Muvila
Doomheim
#163 - 2016-09-09 08:24:46 UTC
What we got here is over-psychoanalyzation.

People who play and enjoy First Person Shooters are not mass murders nor aspire to be for that reason alone.
People who enjoy blowing up other people's ships in Eve for no good reason are also not bad people for that reason alone.

You would have massive amounts of false negatives if you were to try and use any of the above tests to try and find truly RL "dangerous" people. There are far better ways to find them.

Therefore anyone who is trying to say that players are bad people IRL because they enjoy some type of play style in Eve Online are truly misguided or very disingenuous.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#164 - 2016-09-09 08:32:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.

I know the search function is a bit limited, but a search for 'hero' doesn't turn up Jenn in any of the references related to this thread:

https://puu.sh/r53Ki/7968cddbee.png

So don't hold your breath waiting if that is the case. It would be a case of the usual, a claim made in error with nothing to support it.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#165 - 2016-09-09 08:35:05 UTC
Idk, OP, it's usually really simple.

What people do in the game doesn't really reflect their personality. People tend to play to win, and this includes trying to get every edge they can get to achieve their goal (which often is the loss of someone else). This is the nature of the game. You don't have to be a bad person or a loonie IRL to do and enjoy this.

You can usually spot the dicks when they open their mouth and smacktalk leaves the confines of that, though.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#166 - 2016-09-09 08:43:18 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Just like I have a code of ethics that guides my real life, I would create a code of behavior and guidelines for my characters. Motivations, goals, things of that sort.?


The invented character turns to powder under pressure.
An easy test for people is to ask them questions you know the answer to.
A hard test is to stress them with responsibility, ridicule or limit their time or ability to do something.
Roleplaying is a posture people adopt, the core doesn't change.





You might be surprised. My wife tells me I role play a better girl than she does. That actually requires a fundamentally more dramatic shift in thinking than just trying to play someone evil.

@Lucas also
I get your points - I just think it's too broad a generalization to be useful in drawing conclusions. Do some people who play assholes in Eve really behave like assholes in RL? Without doubt. But saying that all of them behave that way is just silly over generalization. I don't do that sort of thing in real life because I have empathy. I don't find it enjoyable to hurt real people.

I give less than two fucks about your feelings about your space pixels, and I will quite happily violence them, steal them, or otherwise deprive you of them at my earliest opportunity. Because there are no consequences for me - and none for you. You aren't injured when I destroy your ship. You aren't really going to starve when I steal your last ISK. Your children won't really eat from a bin because you didn't pay my ransom and I destroyed your mining barge.

I do have limits - I won't steal from a corp mate. I wouldn't get to know someone in RL and then use that knowledge to scam or steal from them - because that does have real world consequences, and that is what separates a real world ******* from a pretend one. The latter cares about the RL consequences of RL actions. The former does not.

Edit: Fixed a sentence. Stupid english.



If your conscience lets you behave that way in game then I have no doubt whatsoever that that same conscience would let you behave that way irl....if you could get away with it.

Oh, and enough of the **** about they're only space pixels, behind every single space pixel is a real person. Whatever you're doing to said pixels is directly affecting a real person.

I'm not on about fleet battles, defence fleets etc so everyone trying to put them in the same category as griefing, forget it.

This is about players like you getting their jollies off by causing as much grief and hassle to another player as they possibly can regardless of how much rl suffering you might be causing to the guy.

Thing is, you can only do it in HS, which is completely contradictory even in EVE. High Security should mean just that, and yes, I don't think the consequences are in any way near harsh enough for the griefers.

Now you can kick and scream about pvp and nothing is safe as much as you want, the fact is that players doing this crap in HS are just cowards hiding behind a pathetic game mechanic.

Take bumping, you bump someone deliberately for an hour or more and don't think it's affecting someone? How ******* frustrated do you think the guy behind the other keyboard is feeling? I probably wouldn't have a keyboard left.....

Then you come on here crying about how you are perceived in game..you deserve everything you get, and more.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2016-09-09 10:09:27 UTC
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#168 - 2016-09-09 10:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Ginger Naari wrote:
This is about players like you getting their jollies off by causing as much grief and hassle to another player as they possibly can regardless of how much rl suffering you might be causing to the guy.

Thing is, you can only do it in HS, which is completely contradictory even in EVE. High Security should mean just that, and yes, I don't think the consequences are in any way near harsh enough for the griefers.

Now you can kick and scream about pvp and nothing is safe as much as you want, the fact is that players doing this crap in HS are just cowards hiding behind a pathetic game mechanic.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. Or maybe in this case, hate the masses of players that keep playing the game despite the fact that they appear to hate it.

Highsec does not mean "safe security". If that was what CCP intended to be it would be called "safe sec". Given that it is only highsec security, not complete security it is logical that there will be a non-zero number of attacks by criminals. You sound like would only be happy if it was impossible to attack another player in highsec? Do you really think that all such highsec attacks are "griefing"?

Look, highsec security space is just that. CCP Quant showed us exactly how little ganking activity actually goes on in this game compared to the rest of the activity (CONCORD does 4 orders of magnitude less damage than Players vs. NPCs and 2 orders of magnitude less than players vs. other players). That's pretty safe. The reality is though, for certain players any number other than zero is unacceptable. They expect a single-player experience where they are in control and think they should not be attacked by another player without their permission under any circumstances and call any such interaction "griefing". Well it is "griefing" in dictionary sense of being an unwanted interaction that causes distress, but not under the EULA as this is the intended gameplay CCP built into their sandbox game. Since the PvP is non-consensual everywhere in this game by design, the whole game can be considered "griefing".

You are entitled to judge players however you like for how they play this game and call them names as Eve players are want to do, but when they shoot you or wardec you or scam you or bump you in highsec they are playing by the rules. You can call them sadists and sociopaths, or threaten them with violence and harm, but it is not they who are doing anything wrong. It is the player who doesn't understand what type of game that they are playing, or is unable to separate real-life from video game space pixels who is bringing this grief upon themselves.

If you don't like fighting over and losing virtual items, then play something that doesn't feature non-consensual fighting over virtual items as its central idea. But calling players who do like that gameplay, the very game play that CCP built and is selling, maladjusted or dysfunctional in real-life is laughable and these same players who can separate fantasy from reality will just roll their eyes when you do and then go gank/scam/wardec you harder.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#169 - 2016-09-09 10:45:05 UTC
Ginger Naari wrote:



If your conscience lets you behave that way in game then I have no doubt whatsoever that that same conscience would let you behave that way irl....if you could get away with it.



And you think your conscience would not allow that? Get down from your high horse. If pushed enough or under the right circumstances anyone of us would do horrible stuff to other persons (see the stanford prison experiments). It does not however mean that my in game character is reflected in my RL character, and that is has be in the time I am alive. So I would appreciate it, if you would stop trying to paint me like a malfunctioning walking timebomb capable of doing greater harm than the average person, without knowing who I am.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#170 - 2016-09-09 10:45:13 UTC
Maybe those of us who have ganked wouldn't commit evil deeds IRL.
Not because of fear of getting caught, but because we don't dehumanise other people.
Because we know the unpleasant urges within and strive to be better.

Conversely, there may be some, who in game are avowed pacifists.... but torch their ship and profanities spew forth.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#171 - 2016-09-09 11:02:44 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Maybe those of us who have ganked wouldn't commit evil deeds IRL.
Not because of fear of getting caught, but because we don't dehumanise other people.
Because we know the unpleasant urges within and strive to be better.

Conversely, there may be some, who in game are avowed pacifists.... but torch their ship and profanities spew forth.


Exactly this. Unfortunately you can only give 1 like on the forums, so here take +5 imaginary likes Smile

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#172 - 2016-09-09 11:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Ginger Naari wrote:

If your conscience lets you behave that way in game then I have no doubt whatsoever that that same conscience would let you behave that way irl....if you could get away with it.

Oh, and enough of the **** about they're only space pixels, behind every single space pixel is a real person. Whatever you're doing to said pixels is directly affecting a real person.

I'm not on about fleet battles, defence fleets etc so everyone trying to put them in the same category as griefing, forget it.
Well that's a dirty great steaming pile of dung Roll

Depriving people of space pixels is A: within the rules, and thus context of Eve, and B: well within the realms of fantasy; just like shooting people in the face in an FPS is within the rules and context of the genre, and also in the realms of fantasy.

Quote:
This is about players like you getting their jollies off by causing as much grief and hassle to another player as they possibly can regardless of how much rl suffering you might be causing to the guy.

Thing is, you can only do it in HS, which is completely contradictory even in EVE. High Security should mean just that, and yes, I don't think the consequences are in any way near harsh enough for the griefers.

Now you can kick and scream about pvp and nothing is safe as much as you want, the fact is that players doing this crap in HS are just cowards hiding behind a pathetic game mechanic.
If you suffer real life suffering over the loss if some imaginary spaceships, in a game where imaginary spaceships are lost every minute of every day that the server is running, then you may want to reconsider your choice to play such a game.

As for consequences, any that go above and beyond those already provided by the game are up to players to inflict.

Quote:
Take bumping, you bump someone deliberately for an hour or more and don't think it's affecting someone? How ******* frustrated do you think the guy behind the other keyboard is feeling? I probably wouldn't have a keyboard left.....
If you get bumped for an hour... either the gankers are slacking because you should have exploded in the first 10 minutes or you're doing it wrong.

Quote:
Then you come on here crying about how you are perceived in game..you deserve everything you get, and more.
Nobody deserves to be told that someone is coming along shortly to sexually assault and murder their family, sadly it's a regular occurrence and the threats generally come from the people who claim to be "peaceful law abiding citizens".

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#173 - 2016-09-09 11:21:43 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's really pathetic to see persons that enjoy to annoy others complaining because the get insulted.

It's deserved and natural players think you are annoying persons even in real life.
By your own metric, I take it that we can safely assume that you're a whinging windbag in real life?

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#174 - 2016-09-09 11:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.

I know the search function is a bit limited, but a search for 'hero' doesn't turn up Jenn in any of the references related to this thread:

https://puu.sh/r53Ki/7968cddbee.png

So don't hold your breath waiting if that is the case. It would be a case of the usual, a claim made in error with nothing to support it.


Still butt hurt from earlier I see Roll As I said those people were doing it for their own needs and desires, you are just too stupid to realise it.

The post where Jenn a'Snide talks about a ganker going out to search for missing people is in this thread, not my issue that you are unable to locate it mate. Lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2016-09-09 11:48:19 UTC
I'm a roleplayer, since the early 80's on pen and paper RP, then since 1999 on internet.
Roleplay is quite a marginal consideration for most EVE players, so i'm not often convinced when people use it as an excuse for their behavior.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2016-09-09 12:05:07 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.

I know the search function is a bit limited, but a search for 'hero' doesn't turn up Jenn in any of the references related to this thread:

https://puu.sh/r53Ki/7968cddbee.png

So don't hold your breath waiting if that is the case. It would be a case of the usual, a claim made in error with nothing to support it.


Still butt hurt from earlier I see Roll As I said those people were doing it for their own needs and desires, you are just too stupid to realise it.

The post where Jenn a'Snide talks about a ganker going out to search for missing people is in this thread, not my issue that you are unable to locate it mate. Lol

Even if that post can be found i would not bet on it anyway. Jenn often post that:
- he makes lots of ISK from incursion when people talks that incursion does not huge ISK
- he gets nice loot when people talks about low rates of drop
- he makes lots of ISK farming 0.0 sec when people asks for making better ISK in 0.0
- .... generally anything people talks about Jenn does better and faster.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#177 - 2016-09-09 12:06:42 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.

I know the search function is a bit limited, but a search for 'hero' doesn't turn up Jenn in any of the references related to this thread:

https://puu.sh/r53Ki/7968cddbee.png

So don't hold your breath waiting if that is the case. It would be a case of the usual, a claim made in error with nothing to support it.


Still butt hurt from earlier I see Roll As I said those people were doing it for their own needs and desires, you are just too stupid to realise it.

The post where Jenn a'Snide talks about a ganker going out to search for missing people is in this thread, not my issue that you are unable to locate it mate. Lol


Yes it is but what you seem to have missed is that shes talking about members of the community she's personally interacted with, not making a general claim about an entire group. Even if she had been the social dynamics of one specific group are functionally irrelevant to a discussion about general ethics.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome

Chopper Rollins
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#178 - 2016-09-09 12:12:06 UTC
ITT: people who can't fight claim a moral victory.

...and all under the guise of a thread about roleplaying.

Makes me want to go shoot a spaceship, hard.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#179 - 2016-09-09 12:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
March rabbit wrote:

Even if that post can be found i would not bet on it anyway. Jenn often post that:
- he makes lots of ISK from incursion when people talks that incursion does not huge ISK
- he gets nice loot when people talks about low rates of drop
- he makes lots of ISK farming 0.0 sec when people asks for making better ISK in 0.0
- .... generally anything people talks about Jenn does better and faster.

I think its the "glass simultanously half empty, half full" thing.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#180 - 2016-09-09 12:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Darek Castigatus wrote:

Yes it is but what you seem to have missed is that shes talking about members of the community she's personally interacted with, not making a general claim about an entire group. Even if she had been the social dynamics of one specific group are functionally irrelevant to a discussion about general ethics.


Well, at least most people who can read understand what was said.

I've pointed out that I've met other EVE players over the last 9 years, I've never said i met all EVE players. Of the people I've met, I've noticed that the so called bad guys tend (the word tend is important) to be really stand up guys and girls, many of whom are a part of the same profession I am, or who are ex military or healthcare workers or volunteers of some kind. Ironically enough I've also noticed that a few of the ganker/bumper types I personally know work in agriculture of some kind. LITERALLY FARMERS lol.

I've also noted that many of the most vocal "I hate griefers/think of the new players' folks I've met tend (there is that word again) to actually not really give much of a **** about anyone but themselves IRL. There were exceptions on both sides, one of the actual nicest guys I met at EVE Vegas was a leader among anti-ganker types (and I noticed that his in game activity had nothing to do with hating anyone, he's a super geek that enjoys tough problem solving, and he's damn good at it).

It's not hard to see this played out both in game and on this forum. The vocal anti ganker types are not nice or good people and it only takes one conversation with one such person to figure that out....

. Notice how one of them insists on childishly misspelling my screen name? Notice how they are the ones making the (usually futile) attempts to get CCP to nerf people that play in a way they don't like (rather than simply teaching people how to combat the tactics of people they don't like)? Notice how easy it is for the rest of us to see the selfishness and greed behind their "think of the newbros" facades?

It's the reason why I post in support of the so called bad guys even though I don't personally find what they do (ganking, scamming, awoxxing, bumping to be in any way personally interesting. My entire ganking career was three barges in high sec because my corp was doing it, it's not something I enjoy.

But point blank, those who do enjoy those things tend (in my experience) to be better company than the self righteous , juvenile liars of this games white knight/space sjw community.