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Why do people assume how we play the game reflects us in real life?

First post
Author
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#141 - 2016-09-08 21:37:07 UTC
If people consider others bad because they prefer to compete against other players within a game like EVE rather than against NPCs...

What kind of sick, sociopathic freaks does that make RL competitors such as Olympians?

Do you feel that instead of giving them medals we should tell them we are going to have them executed for being horrible people if they don't stop picking on people less talented than they are and go exercise alone in the gym?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#142 - 2016-09-08 21:53:21 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:



If you are having a 'cyno' lit up your not in high sec, this means you are free to shoot at whatever because anybody in those security areas have already made it perfectly clear how they are gaming.


There are NPCs outside of HS you know. That is what most people ratting in NS shoot, NPCs.

And as SurrenderMonkey pointed out the point is that NPCs are boring and predictable and you can always beat them so long as you fit your ship correctly.

Quote:
Again I ask you, griefing pixels in high sec is not the same as low and null/WH, people there should never be bothered by being attacked, it is expected, you I am assuming are suggesting in your post that you we're part of 'code' and other things that involves high sec attacks, there is a reason why you get Concorded when you attack in high, yes the game mechanics give you the ability to do attacks in high sec but getting Concorded and losing sec status and including people hating on you when the game mechanics also protects against attacks....what is not computing in your brain, people have some expectations against attacks, when someone breaks that it is going to have consequences and that includes people saying ugly things to you.


Note CONCORD does not prevent others from attacking you. The game was designed that way on purpose. CCP has stated that attacking a person in HS is legal, expected and even normal game play if you are willing to accept the consequences--i.e. get your ship blown up by CONCORD if the attack was "illegal"--i.e. there was no war dec, no suspect flag, etc. You are punished after the fact. So, your entire premise here is at odds not only with the way the game is, but with the way CCP intended the game to be. It is not everyone else that needs to change, it is you.

And you can be upset, you can even be angry, but when you start calling people a sociopath for playing a game as it was intended to be played you are a completely blinkered fool....and you should be ganked again just for good measure.

Quote:
I as an Indy player have lost ships to people and NPC's alike, both generate demand, people lose ships in missions and other activity, people shooting others isn't a 'pure' form of generating demand, don't kid yourself.

If this doesn't make you understand then that's that, nothing can be done, do as you do and don't ask for a reason why people think your psycho, people call me carebear, doesn't hurt my feelings.


Oh we all understand alright, you have an incorrect understanding of the game. Completely incorrect. This is a sandbox game and you have no safe space.



Actually, I get it, no where in my post did I say that 'shooting others in high sec' is not to be expected, nor do I say that undocking no one should not think they are safe, OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, I am always suprised that those that play dirty get bothered by getting called dirty, as I pointed out already if you play in mud expect to get muddy.


If the OP is asking why, many people have given their answers, problem is OP is not listening, he's so vested in the fact that 'you can, therefore' that he cannot see any other point of view, if the answers he's getting does not support his thought process and it doesn't compute then only those who are in line with his view are valid, he got his answers, now its up to him.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2016-09-08 22:15:08 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:


Actually, I get it, no where in my post did I say that 'shooting others in high sec' is not to be expected, nor do I say that undocking no one should not think they are safe, OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, I am always suprised that those that play dirty get bothered by getting called dirty, as I pointed out already if you play in mud expect to get muddy.


If the OP is asking why, many people have given their answers, problem is OP is not listening, he's so vested in the fact that 'you can, therefore' that he cannot see any other point of view, if the answers he's getting does not support his thought process and it doesn't compute then only those who are in line with his view are valid, he got his answers, now its up to him.


It is not gaming dirty. Not in this game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#144 - 2016-09-08 22:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Piugattuk wrote:
OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, ...

Since when does shooting someone or outplaying them within the rules of the game equate to gaming dirty?
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#145 - 2016-09-08 23:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Piugattuk wrote:
... OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, I am always suprised that those that play dirty get bothered by getting called dirty, as I pointed out already if you play in mud expect to get muddy.
The idiom is playing dirty.

Playing dirty implies dishonesty of some description, normally related to the breaking of rules in the game in question.
Ganking, scamming etc are explicitly allowed by the rules of Eve thus anybody taking part in such activities in Eve isn't playing dirty at all, because their actions are within the rules applicable to the game.

Now if they were doing the same activities in a game where they are against the rules then they would be considered to be playing dirty.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

Paranoid Loyd
#146 - 2016-09-08 23:58:13 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, ...

Since when does shooting someone or outplaying them within the rules of the game equate to gaming dirty?

Since I need to justify why you are bad because it can't possibly be that I don't understand how the game is played, it's just like all the others right?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#147 - 2016-09-08 23:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, ...

Since when does shooting someone or outplaying them within the rules of the game equate to gaming dirty?


By dirty I am equating this to game play that negatively impacts others out of acts that most can understand Will have this effect on another.

Fact is that we as humans are not programmed with the same levels of empathy, altruism, or concerns for others, some could care less if someone is hurt and on the ground and will just 'go around' and keep on trucking, while others would do all they can to help another in distress.

What I am saying is that while I see attacking others in game (if I'm not in low/null/WH), as off limits these are my moral grounds, while others do not feel this constrained by personal belief, so I have sat and pondered how they can be 'that way' I finally came to the conclusion that it is because we think differently but it doesn't mean to me anymore that they are evil or bad folk it's just that the process that govern my actions in and out of the game may be absent when others only see an avatar an a icon of a ship and nothing more...I see it as representative of some one out in the world and have no interest in raining on someone's parade.

Hell, I wouldn't attack anyone if I'm not in high sec anyway, my choice, BUT knowing that others do enjoy blowing up my space pixels I've purposely flown ships into low sec areas for the express purpose of the entertainment of gate campers, I fill the hold with loot then go suicide as a way to clear the hanger of stuff.
Lassie Vhemneer
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#148 - 2016-09-09 00:10:17 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Because its still YOU, a real person, doing those actions and if you enjoy said actions it means there is a portion of yourself, your real self, that also enjoys said actions or you would not do them. The game allows you the freedom to drop your moral or other illusions about your societal self and lowers or removes your inhibitions to where you can do it without shattering your self image, the image you have built up and society most often ratifies of your nature as a person.

It is akin to roleplay and acting as well. Actors that have "lost" themselves so completely in dark roles have often spoken of the unease of their psyches after such roles or have literally tumbled off the moral abyss. Undercover cops, spies and undercover agents have also tumbled off this moral abyss and taken on the role they are portraying so fully that they become the corrupt portion of themselves they were meant to guard against. It is a rather common phenomena and psychologically valid.

If you are interested you should look this type of behavior up. Its a very real thing to take on the persona one wishes to have, both positively and negatively. The idea of "act as if" is very good for positive change. Aka the idea of believing yourself to already be that which you wish to become until you simply are that. It is a very fascinating human condition and really shows neuro-plasticity and the ability for a person to alter almost anything about themselves so fully as to quite literally become a very different person. Game personas are one way we delve into this "act" with ourselves and others in a mostly harmless and safe way.




I agree it's behavior.

psychosis: literally unhappy living reality.
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#149 - 2016-09-09 00:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Piugattuk wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, ...

Since when does shooting someone or outplaying them within the rules of the game equate to gaming dirty?


By dirty I am equating this to game play that negatively impacts others out of acts that most can understand Will have this effect on another.

Fact is that we as humans are not programmed with the same levels of empathy, altruism, or concerns for others, some could care less if someone is hurt and on the ground and will just 'go around' and keep on trucking, while others would do all they can to help another in distress.

What I am saying is that while I see attacking others in game (if I'm not in low/null/WH), as off limits these are my moral grounds, while others do not feel this constrained by personal belief, so I have sat and pondered how they can be 'that way' I finally came to the conclusion that it is because we think differently but it doesn't mean to me anymore that they are evil or bad folk it's just that the process that govern my actions in and out of the game may be absent when others only see an avatar an a icon of a ship and nothing more...I see it as representative of some one out in the world and have no interest in raining on someone's parade.

Hell, I wouldn't attack anyone if I'm not in high sec anyway, my choice, BUT knowing that others do enjoy blowing up my space pixels I've purposely flown ships into low sec areas for the express purpose of the entertainment of gate campers, I fill the hold with loot then go suicide as a way to clear the hanger of stuff.
That's entirely your problem.

Your perception of playing dirty is wrong, the people you perceive as dirty players are in fact not dirty players at all, because the rules of the game allow the activities that you consider to be foul play.

Don't like the rules? Don't play the game.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#150 - 2016-09-09 04:26:45 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Piugattuk wrote:
OP's was saying that because you game dirty shouldn't equate to making judgements about them, ...

Since when does shooting someone or outplaying them within the rules of the game equate to gaming dirty?


By dirty I am equating this to game play that negatively impacts others out of acts that most can understand Will have this effect on another.

Fact is that we as humans are not programmed with the same levels of empathy, altruism, or concerns for others, some could care less if someone is hurt and on the ground and will just 'go around' and keep on trucking, while others would do all they can to help another in distress.

What I am saying is that while I see attacking others in game (if I'm not in low/null/WH), as off limits these are my moral grounds, while others do not feel this constrained by personal belief, so I have sat and pondered how they can be 'that way' I finally came to the conclusion that it is because we think differently but it doesn't mean to me anymore that they are evil or bad folk it's just that the process that govern my actions in and out of the game may be absent when others only see an avatar an a icon of a ship and nothing more...I see it as representative of some one out in the world and have no interest in raining on someone's parade.

Hell, I wouldn't attack anyone if I'm not in high sec anyway, my choice, BUT knowing that others do enjoy blowing up my space pixels I've purposely flown ships into low sec areas for the express purpose of the entertainment of gate campers, I fill the hold with loot then go suicide as a way to clear the hanger of stuff.


I knew I was a psychopath as a child....I liked playing Stratego and enjoyed winning....I'm a monster.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#151 - 2016-09-09 05:08:35 UTC
It's fantastic to see so many ***holes wanting to be called heroes...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2016-09-09 05:56:02 UTC
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#153 - 2016-09-09 06:18:23 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Keno Skir
#154 - 2016-09-09 06:24:36 UTC
My god what a stupid conversation.

You wouldn't call someone a megalomaniac if they beat you at Chess? Would you assume someone who beat you at mortal combat was a murderer in the making? Would you assume that because he chooses Raiden he is a closet "Frozen" fan?

Long and short is that people who get smacked down a lot in EvE like to make themselves feel better by claiming some sort of moral superiority over their attacker. It makes them a bit warmer inside to feel at least in some way rightious as they swallow the bitter sticky load of failure.

It's a game, if someone plays inside the rules you have not a leg to stand on questioning their RL moral compass. Grow up.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#155 - 2016-09-09 06:49:34 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's fantastic to see so many ***holes wanting to be called heroes...

I think it is just rude to judge all AG this way. I'm sure some of them are decent people in RL.
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#156 - 2016-09-09 06:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Piugattuk
Keno Skir wrote:
My god what a stupid conversation.

You wouldn't call someone a megalomaniac if they beat you at Chess? Would you assume someone who beat you at mortal combat was a murderer in the making? Would you assume that because he chooses Raiden he is a closet "Frozen" fan?

Long and short is that people who get smacked down a lot in EvE like to make themselves feel better by claiming some sort of moral superiority over their attacker. It makes them a bit warmer inside to feel at least in some way rightious as they swallow the bitter sticky load of failure.

It's a game, if someone plays inside the rules you have not a leg to stand on questioning their RL moral compass. Grow up.


The whole point of the OP's post IS about the game and people's perceptions of his morality, you talk about suggestive thing you should look at yourself before you tell others to grow up and learn to restrain yourself when it comes to posting nasty things where children may see it, this game is not just played by adults.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#157 - 2016-09-09 06:57:34 UTC
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's fantastic to see so many ***holes wanting to be called heroes...


Holy ****.....

Who the Hell said that?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#158 - 2016-09-09 06:58:52 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Lucy Lollipops wrote:
It's fantastic to see so many ***holes wanting to be called heroes...

I think it is just rude to judge all AG this way. I'm sure some of them are decent people in RL.


Maybe 1....possibly 2, but unlikely. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#159 - 2016-09-09 07:05:37 UTC
Piugattuk wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
My god what a stupid conversation.

You wouldn't call someone a megalomaniac if they beat you at Chess? Would you assume someone who beat you at mortal combat was a murderer in the making? Would you assume that because he chooses Raiden he is a closet "Frozen" fan?

Long and short is that people who get smacked down a lot in EvE like to make themselves feel better by claiming some sort of moral superiority over their attacker. It makes them a bit warmer inside to feel at least in some way rightious as they swallow the bitter sticky load of failure.

It's a game, if someone plays inside the rules you have not a leg to stand on questioning their RL moral compass. Grow up.


The whole point of the OP's post IS about the game and people's perceptions of his morality, you talk about suggestive thing you should look at yourself before you tell others to grow up and learn to restrain yourself when it comes to posting nasty things where children my see it, this game is not just played by adults.


Holy ****ing Hell...morality. Dude it is a game.

It. Is. A. Game.

Just because somebody wants to be the "bad guy" in the game does not mean they are history's greatest monster.

What he is talking about is the over the top invective directed at him for doing things that were fully intended by the game designers.

He is not the issue, the people spewing invective...they have some issues.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2016-09-09 07:13:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Nobody thinks they are a hero, we are just doing what is heeded to get ahead in an environment without consequences.

If you can't handle it I'm sure Hello Kitty online spoonfeeds and protects you enough to your standards


Jenn a'Snide was calling them heros, one of them goes out on missing people searches, and all of them were in the military or emergency services or something like that . It must be true Jenn a'Snide said it... Lol



LInk the post please. I've read two of her posts and while she listed some anecdotal evidence of what some of the "bad guys in EVE" did in RL I don't see claims that gankers are heroes.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online