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CYNO rebalance!

Author
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#41 - 2016-09-08 05:55:59 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere.


Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest.

There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

GROUND XERO
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#42 - 2016-09-08 07:17:54 UTC
Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working!
Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can´t bring that on a roam :_)!

NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!

Lugh Crow-Slave
#43 - 2016-09-08 11:06:33 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:

I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.

How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.



this is what it looks like from the end of the person getting dropped... this is not how setting up a drop works
Lugh Crow-Slave
#44 - 2016-09-08 11:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
GROUND XERO wrote:
Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working!
Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can´t bring that on a roam :_)!




so like a cyno jammer.... that any ship can carry... yeah be great if we could get one of themRoll

oh right silly me for some reason you can't bring that on a roam
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#45 - 2016-09-08 14:26:29 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
Cynos need a active counter..... like eccm, remote tracking etc. so foe and high slot module that delay the cyno or gives an aoe where they are not working!
Everything else in eve has a counter but not the XXXXXXX cynos! Of course you can anchor an inhibitor but you can´t bring that on a roam :_)!


Poitot, save us.


Do you not realize this would actually break the game? This idea comes up every so often. It would become a game of who can cyno in first and use the anti-cyno ray before the other guy. I.E. wait till I get my caps/blops on you, then prevent you from lighting, removing entirely the threat of a counter-drop. It may not seem like they did it well, but the Cyno Inhibitor deployable is actually well designed because of the delay in anchoring - if there was no delay, one could drop the house on you, immediately anchor it, and you could never, ever counter drop my fleet.

I listed several counters to cynos a few posts back. I feel as if you actually played the game from the cyno-er and not the cyno-ee point of view, you would quite quickly realize they are not an I-win button, and that they are quite frankly the only thing that prevents the total stagnation of content due to how oppressively reliable local is.


Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#46 - 2016-09-08 19:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
i still cannot understand what are you talking about. nobody suggested to kill a cyno system in EVE. I say it is time to re-lay ability of instant cyno to a special ships with a special role bonus, but let other ships still use a cyno for their regular tasks like jump freighter or any other cap moving.

As i sayed let it be combat force recon ships like^
Lachesis
Curse
Huggin
Rook
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#47 - 2016-09-08 19:46:52 UTC
And don't tell me about that amazing planning and preparations of a drop operation. Regular situation looks like this%
- Home local - 100
- Carebear spot gang of 1-3 ships
- Carebear fit a cyno
- 1 minute of gathering on a titan 5-10 ships + carrier scooping its fighters in sanctum
- point, cyno up, enjoy
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#48 - 2016-09-08 20:08:04 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
And don't tell me about that amazing planning and preparations of a drop operation. Regular situation looks like this%
- Home local - 100
- Carebear spot gang of 1-3 ships
- Carebear fit a cyno
- 1 minute of gathering on a titan 5-10 ships + carrier scooping its fighters in sanctum
- point, cyno up, enjoy


Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.

I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#49 - 2016-09-08 21:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Teddy KGB
Vic Jefferson wrote:


Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.

I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.


So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#50 - 2016-09-08 22:48:02 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.

I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.


So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what?


just one example of a way to avoid it.

another is to learn to check kbs to see if someone is likely to cyno
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#51 - 2016-09-08 23:18:18 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

just one example of a way to avoid it.

another is to learn to check kbs to see if someone is likely to cyno


i always like to see people with 12% dangerous factor on kb teaching me how to play eve. but ok, let's say i don't know how to use kbs and now under your strict guidance i finally learned how to use it. now tell me please how it will increase the number of people in eve and pilots in space?
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#52 - 2016-09-08 23:37:59 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere.


Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest.

There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor.

Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#53 - 2016-09-09 00:49:39 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:


Learn to kite, and as soon as cyno goes up, warp off. There's a reason nano-gangs are the ships of choice for raids into deep sov.

I've been on both sides of the equation rather extensively. Skill is the determining factor.


So you want all in EVE fly in nano-gangs? or what?


Absolutely not, but for many reasons, if you are going to hunt in deep sov where people have drops ready to go for home defense, as well as other non-jumpy defenders, nano gangs give you the best chance of making it out alive as well as finding things before they can get safe. Different tools, different fleets, for different types of space.

When blopsing sov, same deal applies; light stuff that is hard to catch but can catch other stuff easily . Stratios and bombers do the job just fine, and are harder to catch than big slow blops BS.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#54 - 2016-09-09 00:54:57 UTC
Teddy KGB wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere.


Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest.

There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor.

Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy


Yeah, roaming in battleship is terrible, because battleships can't really...roam. There's your problem. If you want to fly a battleship and find a fight, you have to stick to very populated areas at the right time of day. The warp speed is far more detrimental to BS seeing play than cynos.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?

Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#55 - 2016-09-09 01:17:06 UTC
Quote:
Rarity of any ship is a problem.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#56 - 2016-09-09 01:33:23 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
The cyno is never going to be balanced. It's a broken mechanic that can never be fixed and no amount of jump or spool up timers will help. The solution would have been to never implement jump drives for anything other than jump freighters, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back. CCP doesn't have the grapes to make any more changes to it or related mechanics so you'd better get used to it.

I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.

How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.

Just introduce a sensor recalibration like we have for cloaks. Still not sure how cynos have escaped a balance pass yet. Don't get me wrong I like cynos, but instant teleportation and the ability to lock and attack straight after is clearly not great game design.
FT Cold
FT Cold Corporation
#57 - 2016-09-09 01:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
Rawketsled wrote:

I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.

How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.


Get rid of local in null, introduce delayed local to lowsec, and give black ops battleships a covops cloak. Reduce their build cost by 50% to offset the increased risk they face by having to traverse gates. From there you could go a few routes. Buff their stats greatly, give them the 'cannot receive remote assistance' attribute, and focus them around active tanks to keep them from scaling out of control for fleets. Alternatively, keep their stats low and give the nestor a covops cloak and let the cloaky fleet become a thing. Buff capital warp speed to 1.8 au/sec and shave 10-15% off their align times. That's how you do it.
FT Cold
FT Cold Corporation
#58 - 2016-09-09 01:57:26 UTC
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
Teddy KGB wrote:
people don't fly battleships cos they get dropped imidiately. i'm tired of killing svipuls.. svipuls are everywhere.


Oversimplification to the point of being intellectually dishonest.

There's many, many reasons why battleships are currently not in favor.

Be sure that cyno is the first one, but rarity of battleships isn't worst thing happening to EVE today. Rarity of any ship is a problem. Every day i roam in Keres with my friend in Megathron for 3 hours minimum. How many gangs flying somewhere like us, you think. we meet? I tell you - in last 3 days we've met only 1 gang of 2 pilots and 1 solo dude flying somewhere. All others sit in entrance systems, camping trafic checkpoints or sitting in home systems. People are scared to death to fly somwhere further than 10 jumps. enjoy


Yeah, roaming in battleship is terrible, because battleships can't really...roam. There's your problem. If you want to fly a battleship and find a fight, you have to stick to very populated areas at the right time of day. The warp speed is far more detrimental to BS seeing play than cynos.


You can't cover much ground, but battleships do attract plenty of attention, which isn't always a bad thing.
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#59 - 2016-09-09 04:24:36 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
The cyno is never going to be balanced. It's a broken mechanic that can never be fixed and no amount of jump or spool up timers will help. The solution would have been to never implement jump drives for anything other than jump freighters, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back. CCP doesn't have the grapes to make any more changes to it or related mechanics so you'd better get used to it.

I kinda' disagree here. It's definitely broken. The whole two-clicks-to-do-an-instant-5LY-pinpoint-jump is a dumb thing, but you can improve it by attacking the instant and pinpoint parts of the mechanic.

How you do that without dumping all over blops is something I don't know.

Just introduce a sensor recalibration like we have for cloaks. Still not sure how cynos have escaped a balance pass yet. Don't get me wrong I like cynos, but instant teleportation and the ability to lock and attack straight after is clearly not great game design.

It's still boring two-click-teleportation. Now you've just added a mandatory step of wait and don't do anything fun.

Brain Fart Idea: Give people a way to configure two aspects of the jump: the precision (like what happens with wormholes), and the speed (instant, or with some magic interplanetary traveltime) and scale Fatigue accordingly.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#60 - 2016-09-09 05:09:43 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:

It's still boring two-click-teleportation.


again you have never been a part of one of these gangs have you?

besides people who regularly drop are good.... they are the easiest ones to bait out and get shiny loot from