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Clone States: By Capping Certificate Use - NOT Skills

First post
Author
Rivka
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-09-07 22:22:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivka
CCP,

In short, there are a lot of solutions that could: increase player experience; reduce client and server technical requirements; facilitate free-to-play accounts; and also generate more revenue for CCP.

I imagine that these are some of the business goals that you hold:

  • Recurrent Billing: Subscription and Microtransactions;
  • Increased Server Efficiency;
  • Higher Returns on Investments, (into Development, I.T., etc);


Alpha-State Clone Model Revolving Around Faction Warfare, and Certificates:

  • Paying players will greatly benefit from Alpha-State clone players who have Tier V Mastery in frigates. It will increase the player base, retain them, and help our economy - injecting more LP Items, etc. Otherwise - Alpha-State players do not seem to benefit paying players.
  • Allowing Players to get Tier V Mastery in Tier 1 Frigates SIGNIFICANTLY contributes to the amount of ISK they gain, and their ability to buy better ships/gear, which will necessitate better Skill Certificates.
  • Injecting many more pilots into Faction Warfare SIGNIFICANTLY contributes to New Player Experience.
  • Allowing Players to continue to train skills - even skills they cannot use - gives them an incentive to keep playing, and eventually pay for a subscription to use those skills.
  • Applying Certificate Mastery Limitations is MUCH easier to maintain / track than large lists of skills.


*Granted: Those certificates need to be tweaked a bit.

A Free-To-Play Model based "Capping Certificate Use" actually sustains these business efforts:

That is: Players should be able to freely acquire skills, and certificates ... But their Alpha Clone-State can only use skills up to a certain certificate level.

  • Blocking skills at "some level" is incredibly difficult to understand, difficult to manage, and difficult to maintain.
  • At the very least, limiting to Tier 2 Master, etc, is much easier to maintain.
  • CCP Will get an influx of new players, during the Christmas Season - and CCP Will have heavy I.T. demands to meet this need.
  • But, limiting the skills these players acquire also means those players won't necessarily have an incentive, nor investment to return to.
  • Those players will get discouraged, because the skills they can actually get - don't actually mean a whole lot.
  • Those players won't significantly contribute to the economy.
  • Blocking Content, rather than character development is a proven revenue model, (or by tying content to character development which can't apply).


Risks - Players Creating Even More Alternate Accounts:

This is an artificial limitation - imposed by CCP upon itself.

  • Allowing players a one-time purchase to increase their number of characters is a proven revenue model.
  • There are almost no client-side concerns to allow players the ability to toggle from a combat ship in space, to driving another, (a scout); or from a Miner, to Cargo, etc - WITHOUT EXITING TO THE CHARACTER SCREEN. (This is also a micro-transaction revenue source). CCP's Server Infrastructure requirements, and Client Requirements would be significantly reduced - if players were allowed to pilot multiple ships at a time - FROM A SINGLE CLIENT INSTANCE; even allowing players to "multi-box" from the same account has some potential to reduce server transactions, (multiple account management, payment management, etc).
  • Having Corporation recruitment revolve around "Full API-Keys" encourages multiple-accounts and multi-boxing. This could be quickly remedied by allowing API-Keys to quietly hide alternate characters, assets, etc.
  • More ships in space - over time => Better Value to Players; but not an artificial burst like this.
Keebler Wizard
Skew The Suits
#2 - 2016-09-08 00:20:50 UTC
Quote:

Blocking skills at "some level" is incredibly difficult to understand, difficult to manage, and difficult to maintain.


Quote:

allowing players to pilot multiple ships at a time, or even multi-boxing from the same account.


I'm not even sure what you're suggesting to begin with, at least to the extent you talk about extra microtransactions and that crap at the end. How do alpha clones already not equal "More ships in space"

Otherwise I see a bunch of contradictory statements
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#3 - 2016-09-08 00:26:22 UTC
Most people have no idea certificates even exist, they're buried in menus, and when you get to them, the UI is more awful lists with somewhat verbose but generally unhelpful descriptions.

Mastery is a joke all by itself.

It's besides the point, but neither of them had to be that useless, of course, if they had allowed players to create, save and distribute them, then they would have become really helpful corp / alliance assets to assist in training.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#4 - 2016-09-08 00:34:59 UTC
If only CCP had setup a dedicated thread for soliciting ideas and feedback for these changes.

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-09-08 00:56:22 UTC
Lol certificates
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#6 - 2016-09-08 01:01:00 UTC
'Freely train SP' is problematic. People who train skills in the omega account are either paying subs or buying injectors. But if you allowed Alpha toons to train beyond the suggested SP cap, they can train up to 100m SP 'for free' and the only need to buy one PLEX to have a free 100m SP toon.

Therr's also issue of accumulating 'free SP' then paying one PLEX only to activate and then extract for massive profit.

So.... No.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-09-08 02:40:22 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
If only CCP had setup a dedicated thread for soliciting ideas and feedback for these changes.



Here in scrubville people don't read stickies and refuse to learn logic and make arguments and "feedback"(read: whine) based on how angry they are.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Rivka
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-09-08 04:52:30 UTC
Toobo wrote:
' ... But if you allowed Alpha toons to train beyond the suggested SP cap, they can train up to 100m SP 'for free' and the only need to buy one PLEX to have a free 100m SP toon.

Therr's also issue of accumulating 'free SP' then paying one PLEX only to activate and then extract for massive profit.

So.... No.


This is a really good point about free-accounts profiting off of extraction.

I think there are two very-easy solutions ...

Work Around #1:

Hypothetically, players could already freely do this simply by plexing their accounts.

But, I feel that CCP has /already/ worked around this, by making extraction/injection more profitable at 50 million points.

Work-Around #2:

Otherwise, It is easy enough to implement a "counter", that increases every time someone pays for a subscription, or uses a plex.

And the amount that is extracted must be <= Counter+BaseSkillPointValue, (1,500,000 sp a month??).

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#9 - 2016-09-08 04:53:57 UTC
Infinite trade slots, infinite research slots, infinite manufacturing slots, infinite PI, there's even infinite r&d agents for free datacores as long as certificates are used instead of SP.
Rivka
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-09-08 05:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivka
Quote:

Quote:

allowing players to pilot multiple ships at a time, or even multi-boxing from the same account.

I'm not even sure what you're suggesting to begin with, at least to the extent you talk about extra microtransactions and that crap at the end. How do alpha clones already not equal "More ships in space"

Otherwise I see a bunch of contradictory statements


You were right - and the statement was confusing, (I updated it).

Essentially:

The current technology supports players "Toggling" between characters on the same account, without having to exit to the character screen.

Players could have a mining ship, and an industrial hauler in the same sector, and toggle between the two seamlessly.

This would greatly reduce multi-boxing scenarios, decrease client-side requirements, and decrease server load.

.... that point, in context, is to allow paying players dual-character piloting - without driving them to create alpha-state clones.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#11 - 2016-09-08 08:05:59 UTC
How do I unsee this thread again? I don't want to remember it ever existed.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-09-08 08:19:25 UTC
Rivka wrote:
Toobo wrote:
' ... But if you allowed Alpha toons to train beyond the suggested SP cap, they can train up to 100m SP 'for free' and the only need to buy one PLEX to have a free 100m SP toon.

Therr's also issue of accumulating 'free SP' then paying one PLEX only to activate and then extract for massive profit.

So.... No.


This is a really good point about free-accounts profiting off of extraction.

I think there are two very-easy solutions ...

Work Around #1:

Hypothetically, players could already freely do this simply by plexing their accounts.

But, I feel that CCP has /already/ worked around this, by making extraction/injection more profitable at 50 million points.

Work-Around #2:

Otherwise, It is easy enough to implement a "counter", that increases every time someone pays for a subscription, or uses a plex.

And the amount that is extracted must be <= Counter+BaseSkillPointValue, (1,500,000 sp a month??).


The limit of a fully trained alpha is 5M SP and that's the limit for skill extraction. So you have to skill extractable SP on a paid account. Alpha is nothing that someone will keep for long. You either upgrade to Omega or quit. See it a an extended trial so there is no reason for tweeking it. And it SHOULD have limitations that make people long for Omega because thats where CCP is making money. Alpha is a starting drug, nothing more and if alpha gets to cosy you can bet that it will be abused. FW is a system that can be abused even now with the alpha toons.

Serene Repose
#13 - 2016-09-08 10:40:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
(IB4L) You speak as though the Alpha Clone is intended as a permanent class of player. Conceptually, this is not so. Though you'll have a regular population of Alpha Clones (theoretically) these are continually cycling into subs precisely because they hit this wall of development and "enlightened self-interest" demands they upgrade their accounts to keep that progression going.

Institutionally enshrining the extended trial alters this dynamic to such a degree, one couldn't expect it to serve as a conduit guiding a current of new players into the exaulted state of paying real money for a sub. After all, the microtransaction portion of the show will continually be there for both states of cloneship. That market will have its demand apart from the incentive to upgrade the account.

No. Though it might look good on paper to make Alpha cloners "useful" to subbers, that's not its intended purpose. Your conceptualization of it will only make the Alpha state appealing, robbing it of any incentive to upgrade. Edit: In fact, should it be the case subbers start rolling Alphas to serve as tools, the progression potential of the Alpha will be reduced before it's ever increased.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2016-09-08 13:37:40 UTC
Please use the existing feedback thread at this location instead of creating a new thread for the same topic. Thank you.

Thread closed.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.