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[OOJ] Defense of the Throne Worlds Triumph POSTPONED
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Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#21 - 2016-09-06 19:13:39 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Who said she owns slaves? She might, of course, but nowhere has that been explicitly stated.

You're correct in that it hasn't been stated explicitly but the title of holder generally connotes the ownership of slaves does it not?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2016-09-06 20:26:49 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Who said she owns slaves? She might, of course, but nowhere has that been explicitly stated.

You're correct in that it hasn't been stated explicitly but the title of holder generally connotes the ownership of slaves does it not?


It explicitly recognises the right to do so, but it's also (I believe) pretty much the blanket term for the holder of any patent of nobility too. It's entirely possible that Morwen could have inherited the patent of nobility from her lamented former partner and simply chosen not to exercise it.

But my point isn't that she does or doesn't hold slaves - simply that this is an unknown and it's rude to throw accusations around when you don't know whether they apply.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2016-09-06 21:24:38 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Who said she owns slaves? She might, of course, but nowhere has that been explicitly stated.

You're correct in that it hasn't been stated explicitly but the title of holder generally connotes the ownership of slaves does it not?


It explicitly recognises the right to do so, but it's also (I believe) pretty much the blanket term for the holder of any patent of nobility too. It's entirely possible that Morwen could have inherited the patent of nobility from her lamented former partner and simply chosen not to exercise it.

But my point isn't that she does or doesn't hold slaves - simply that this is an unknown and it's rude to throw accusations around when you don't know whether they apply.

Though just assuming that holding a slave in Empire could be an accusation is absurd.

Tuulinen-haan, this gallentean is a well-known troll, please be careful where he is pulling you into. While in the State territory holding a slave is a crime, in the Empire territory owning a slave is just like for us owning a ship or corporation. You wouldn't consider blaming Caldari for owning a ship to be an accusation, right?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2016-09-06 23:29:00 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Who said she owns slaves? She might, of course, but nowhere has that been explicitly stated.

You're correct in that it hasn't been stated explicitly but the title of holder generally connotes the ownership of slaves does it not?


It explicitly recognises the right to do so, but it's also (I believe) pretty much the blanket term for the holder of any patent of nobility too. It's entirely possible that Morwen could have inherited the patent of nobility from her lamented former partner and simply chosen not to exercise it.

But my point isn't that she does or doesn't hold slaves - simply that this is an unknown and it's rude to throw accusations around when you don't know whether they apply.

Though just assuming that holding a slave in Empire could be an accusation is absurd.

Tuulinen-haan, this gallentean is a well-known troll, please be careful where he is pulling you into. While in the State territory holding a slave is a crime, in the Empire territory owning a slave is just like for us owning a ship or corporation. You wouldn't consider blaming Caldari for owning a ship to be an accusation, right?


None of the people involved are Caldari or are in Caldari space. This whole thing is largely academic for me - but I consider myself an acquaintaince of Morwen's.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2016-09-07 01:13:14 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Drifters blindside the Amarr with a hell of a ***** slap, then the cluster as a whole goes and pokes a few drifter dens and the Amarr are the winners? One hell of a pyrrhic victory if you ask me...


The Amarr Empire can use a little morale boost, hence the skewed reporting.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#26 - 2016-09-07 01:22:40 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Drifters blindside the Amarr with a hell of a ***** slap, then the cluster as a whole goes and pokes a few drifter dens and the Amarr are the winners? One hell of a pyrrhic victory if you ask me...


The Amarr Empire can use a little morale boost, hence the skewed reporting.

Who needs a morale boost when they have god on their side? After all, he supports those he chooses right? I'm hearing something about tests of faith, tests of faith that shouldn't be necessary for his "chosen people...' they're chosen to lead the universe out of this darkness that is, you know... Existing perfectly fine without his presence, his guiding hand... I think you should see where I'm going with this.

Roll
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-09-07 01:30:25 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Drifters blindside the Amarr with a hell of a ***** slap, then the cluster as a whole goes and pokes a few drifter dens and the Amarr are the winners? One hell of a pyrrhic victory if you ask me...


The Amarr Empire can use a little morale boost, hence the skewed reporting.

Who needs a morale boost when they have god on their side? After all, he supports those he chooses right? I'm hearing something about tests of faith, tests of faith that shouldn't be necessary for his "chosen people...' they're chosen to lead the universe out of this darkness that is, you know... Existing perfectly fine without his presence, his guiding hand... I think you should see where I'm going with this.

Roll


Perhaps the Amarr Empire's subjects weren't all that faithful to begin with.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#28 - 2016-09-07 01:32:12 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Drifters blindside the Amarr with a hell of a ***** slap, then the cluster as a whole goes and pokes a few drifter dens and the Amarr are the winners? One hell of a pyrrhic victory if you ask me...


The Amarr Empire can use a little morale boost, hence the skewed reporting.

Who needs a morale boost when they have god on their side? After all, he supports those he chooses right? I'm hearing something about tests of faith, tests of faith that shouldn't be necessary for his "chosen people...' they're chosen to lead the universe out of this darkness that is, you know... Existing perfectly fine without his presence, his guiding hand... I think you should see where I'm going with this.

Roll


Perhaps the Amarr Empire's subjects weren't all that faithful to begin with.


THANK YOU...
Vlad Cetes
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#29 - 2016-09-07 01:36:19 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Drifters blindside the Amarr with a hell of a ***** slap, then the cluster as a whole goes and pokes a few drifter dens and the Amarr are the winners? One hell of a pyrrhic victory if you ask me...


The Amarr Empire can use a little morale boost, hence the skewed reporting.

Who needs a morale boost when they have god on their side? After all, he supports those he chooses right? I'm hearing something about tests of faith, tests of faith that shouldn't be necessary for his "chosen people...' they're chosen to lead the universe out of this darkness that is, you know... Existing perfectly fine without his presence, his guiding hand... I think you should see where I'm going with this.

Roll


Perhaps the Amarr Empire's subjects weren't all that faithful to begin with.


Or competent
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#30 - 2016-09-07 01:41:50 UTC
They can fight, however faith seems to be their weakness.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2016-09-07 01:43:42 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
They can fight, however faith seems to be their weakness.


They wouldn't have needed Tests of Faith otherwise.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#32 - 2016-09-07 01:52:08 UTC
I'm more going off of just chosing their next leader sparked a 8+ page thread complaining about the precedings which I'd imagine was alot more for the baseliners, and numerous other cracks in the veneer shown in the last few years where they've come to blows over rather frivolous things. When's the last time a brutor and a sebiestor entered such an arguement in that span of time that was notable? It truely makes you wonder how they can go on thinking they know the way to some form of enlightenment or peace with their religion if they can't cull their own disdain for others of their own flock. Maybe it's just me who sees that and finds it appalling, I don't know.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-09-07 01:57:39 UTC
The Brutor love their 'strong silent type' images and let us Sebiestor do most of the talking. How will there be conflict if one side wouldn't speak?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#34 - 2016-09-07 02:05:14 UTC
Ok, have we ever really argued? Arrendis? Mizhara? When I say argued I mean really coming to blows, not "I have a different opinion on this."
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-09-07 02:10:31 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Ok, have we ever really argued? Arrendis? Mizhara? When I say argued I mean really coming to blows, not "I have a different opinion on this."


Our arguments never devolve into a fist-fight for some reason. Perhaps because we are too darn polite and we are actually quite some distance away from each other, ensuring that we can't just up and walk to each other's homes to deliver our opinions in the form of a fist.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#36 - 2016-09-07 02:14:09 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Ok, have we ever really argued? Arrendis? Mizhara? When I say argued I mean really coming to blows, not "I have a different opinion on this."


Our arguments never devolve into a fist-fight for some reason. Perhaps because we are too darn polite and we are actually quite some distance away from each other, ensuring that we can't just up and walk to each other's homes to deliver our opinions in the form of a fist.

True, but even still it's a rarity.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2016-09-07 02:22:27 UTC
Helps that we don't have Scriptures to fall back to when we argue.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#38 - 2016-09-07 04:15:17 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Helps that we don't have Scriptures to fall back to when we argue.

There is something to be said for requiring tangible evidence to be presented instead of going right to "The invisible man in the sky said so".... How did the Minmatar end up as the ones with the reputation for being the lesser race when the Amarr are the ones who have to get permission from their imaginary friend to do anything?

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2016-09-07 04:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
The last few comments ...

Mr. Egivand, Ms. Vess.

I think, you're neither of you very different from the people around me.

Nor any better than they are. Nor much worse, I think. Only,

For all the warnings I've had, that I was being manipulated, trapped, brainwashed, made a prisoner and slave ... the only real treachery I've tasted, has been from those on your side of this question.

Those who hate the Amarr, whose actions are purified by their hate. Who can do no wrong, as long as it is in service to their hatred.

I don't say that the Amarr cannot be treacherous. But even Nauplius, the Butcher, rewarded my trust.

The people who make me the most sympathetic to the Amarr, who do the most to extend my loyalty from Directrix Daphiti personally to the Empire generally, are the people who despise them.

I'll try not to learn your lessons too well. I don't wish to become distorted in such a way. Mostly I've seen the kindest of the Amarr, the most generous at spirit. I don't want to start to think that's all there is.

If you'll take such thoughts from someone so entangled with your enemies, though-- there's darkness anywhere I look, anywhere I go. Sometimes it's deep, and thick; sometime strange, stretched, and hard to understand. Sometimes it's hard even to see. But it's always there.

If you don't fight amongst yourselves, if you don't "really argue"-- I'd ask you why you think that is. What unites you so.

I don't think it's something bright.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#40 - 2016-09-07 05:16:02 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
There is something to be said for requiring tangible evidence to be presented instead of going right to "The invisible man in the sky said so".... How did the Minmatar end up as the ones with the reputation for being the lesser race when the Amarr are the ones who have to get permission from their imaginary friend to do anything?


Magic Tattoos.

That cause some people to be shunned without them having actually done anything that would justify shunning them.

Shun them ! Shun the ones with the Bad Tat !

Shuuuuuuun.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.