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[GalFed] Villore Assembly resolution on the crowning of Empress Catiz

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Contessa della Solfete
501c3
#41 - 2016-09-05 16:12:02 UTC
But the fact that CONCORD controls that structure and can change it at whim is the sticking point.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#42 - 2016-09-05 16:16:53 UTC
I think this discussion would be better served in its own thread.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Charles Cambridge Schmidt
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#43 - 2016-09-05 16:18:43 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
I think this discussion would be better served in its own thread.



Good call. It's getting a bit heated here. And off topic, too.

I don't care what you think, as long as it's about me.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#44 - 2016-09-05 16:25:09 UTC
I suppose the basic point remains, however; the Villore Assembly is asking for equal standing to a sovereign group in its treatment, which is to say equal standing to a delegation that could certainly include spokespeople of Federation's government itself. While Soter is perfectly within his rights to request such a thing, it could conceivably be read as an insult to the Federation itself, given that Soter seems to seek a seat at the same table as Roden.

I would suspect that such a request as this is more likely to be granted to a delegation from the Imperial capsuleer organizations, but they've not sough to grandstand in this way: instead, they host a celebration.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#45 - 2016-09-05 16:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
I suggest to all fellow Amarr that you lay this argument to rest and allow the presumptuous Mr. Soter and his followers be ignored by the Empire as he rightly will be.

That said, just in case they do not get ignored, I would like to formally request that the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris be included officially in the coronation procession and that we all get big hats to announce how loyal and special we are to the Empire.

That is all.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#46 - 2016-09-05 16:43:50 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
I suggest to all fellow Amarr that you lay this argument to rest and allow the presumptuous Mr. Soter and his followers be ignored by the Empire as he rightly will be.

That said, just in case they do not get ignored, I would like to formally request that the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris be included officially in the coronation procession and that we all get big hats to announced how loyal and special we are to the Empire.

That is all.



Soter had little to no hand in the creation of this delegation. Neither that, nor is the delegation asking for official recognition and announcements of speciality.

This is an era of great change for the Empire. The Empress is setting the first of presumably many precidents. The Federation is slowly warning to the Empire as tensions grow elsewhere. Can you not see this? Such childish remarks are unbecoming of a man of your status. I feel you are well aware of the ramifications and benefits this delegation could provide.

The worst (or best, in your eyes) the Empire politicians could do is simply say "no," after all.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#47 - 2016-09-05 16:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
Mr. Iyhr;

Xun Yu wrote:

...
Resolution VA/2/1
Second Villore Assembly

Sponsors: Julianus Soter
...

...
2. Requests that the members of this delegation be afforded all diplomatic rights as any other foreign delegation,
...


Point 2 either means 'the rights as any common group,' or else 'the rights afforded a sovereign delegation.' Given that they are making formal announcements, one should read it as the latter.

Please do take care when attempting to reproach a man of the Lord Consort's standing.

As to the rest, my part in this is concluded. Best of luck to the Villore Assembly.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#48 - 2016-09-05 16:52:08 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums.
Indeed we will, we are not asking the Empire for anything, we are asking the Federal authorities to include members of the Assembly in their delegation. Should the Federal authorities decline our request I suppose we will have to make other arrangements. If they do, then I suppose it's up to the Empire to accept the delegation or not.
Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2016-09-05 16:59:49 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Please do take care when attempting to reproach a man of the Lord Consort's standing.



I am a Holder of the Divine Mandate. I am no "mister" to be flippantly addressed so. House Iyhr, though troubled, serves God, the Empire, and its peoples.

That being said, I understand now the wording may be a touch difficult to decipher.
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#50 - 2016-09-05 17:15:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Oh, do not worry about me, Ms. Priano, I can take a few rebukes from fellow Amarr who have not yet let the poison of cynicism creep into their veins.

Anyway, whoever drafted this request sent it to the wrong address. As capsuleers, the Villore Assembly is already allowed in Amarr space as an extra-national entity under the jurisdiction of CONCORD law. However, standings, Imperial criminal records, and persona-non-grata lists due to acts against the Empire might still apply if they try to set foot upon Holy Athra, and they really ought not even try. As the Contessa pointed out, people far more important to the Empire will be hogging up the seats in the Imperial Palace and Basilica where the events will take place. No one from the Federation short of the President himself would be allowed within a hundred kilometers of the palace, and the only capsuleers I could think of that would be let in are the Tash-Murkon champions. Not even my wife, Champion of House Sarum and Admiral of PIE, will likely be invited, but the Empress-elect might be feeling generous and allow representatives of her rivals to show up.

Now, having established that the Villore Assembly's attendance of the coronation ceremony proper to be next to impossible, the next best thing would be to attend the military procession in the Amarr system. That is very much possible, and I will likely be leading the Amarr loyalist fleet for the event. Thus they really ought to have sent this request to me or the Praetorian Admirals, as it will be up to us whether or not we'd welcome them in our territory. CONCORD might protect them from unlawful weapons fire, but there is plenty of time to plan a sanctioned war against them if we feel they might present an insult or a threat. Now, I truly doubt we'd deign to do such a thing, but the possibility exists and the courtesy this request represents ought to have been sent to people who could and would actually acknowledge them.

If the Court Chamberlain does indeed respond and invite them, I will stand thoroughly corrected on this matter. But frankly, I simply do not see that happening, and I interpret the attempt to be naive at best and arrogant at worse, as have many other loyalists of the Empire. This is neither surprising nor especially galling coming from Gallente, but it is still enough of an issue that it warrants correcting. I'm sorry to rain on their parade, but it's actually our parade and while Gallente exceptionalism can be cute sometimes, it's really unbecoming. I'll forgive them, however, because I am to busy trying to figure out how to counter a Drifter alpha strike if things come down to that.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Zekiel Iyhr
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2016-09-05 17:27:40 UTC
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Oh, do not worry about me, Ms. Priano, I can take a few rebukes from fellow Amarr who have not yet the poison of cynicism creep into their veins.

Anyway...


I rue the day such a thing would happen to me.

Thank you, in any case, for your extended response.

I believe it has been made unfortunately clear how undereducated I am in interstellar politics and the phrasing of such. I do not believe the Assembly was asking for entry into the Coronation its very self, though I did not think to address such things while it were possible. Regardless, I hope there will be more olive branches extended in the future between our Empire and the Federation.
Contessa della Solfete
501c3
#52 - 2016-09-05 17:32:57 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Utari Onzo wrote:
We shall see what the Empire's response will be to this but I suspect you'll be enjoying the show from the same seats as everyone else on these forums.
Indeed we will, we are not asking the Empire for anything, we are asking the Federal authorities to include members of the Assembly in their delegation. Should the Federal authorities decline our request I suppose we will have to make other arrangements. If they do, then I suppose it's up to the Empire to accept the delegation or not.

Wow. Then your wording was even more horrible than I originally thought.

2. Requests that the members of this delegation be included as official members in the Gallente delegation.

I fixed it for you.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#53 - 2016-09-05 17:41:11 UTC
Ah-- one last note, then, given Syagrius's comment. The resolution isn't specifically addressed to anyone so far as I could see, but the wording of point 2 seemed to indicate a request posted to the Amarr. One doesn't usually request diplomatic credentials from a third party, after all.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#54 - 2016-09-05 17:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldrith Shutaq
Specifically, Ms. Priano, the letter is addressed to the body in charge of overseeing the coronation, that being the Court Chamberlain headed by Pomik Haromi, who is currently the de-facto ruler of the Empire in absence of an Emperor. The Tash-Murkon Family, of course, now also has heavy influence in that sphere as it is their Heiress who is being coronated, as do the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy as they are surely in charge of security. Thus, this request is basically addressed to those four primary bodies which are in charge of vetting potential attendees of the ceremony, even if the actual request was made in a 'to whom it may concern' manner.

That is why it seems so presumptuous, since even we loyal Amarr do not expect to be given special attention by these bodies, nor would we basically demand that attention in such a manner. Again, I chalk this up to a naive notion that the Villore Assembly might be considered important by the official Imperial institutions involved in the coronation's planning, and I forgive it. They'll just have to learn the hard way that the best they're going to get is Admiral Rodj Blake's politely smug 'yes' or 'no' instead.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#55 - 2016-09-05 18:13:17 UTC
I, for one, would not presume to guess what the reaction of the Amarr Imperial authorities would be.

However, I can assure the Villore Assembly, that should they request an official recognition in the event of an event being held on Kaztropol that the Assembly would wish to send a delegation to, then I have every confidence that Empress Synthia would ensure that they would be first in line.

For the ritual Reviling of the Heathens, that is.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#56 - 2016-09-05 18:15:31 UTC
That doesn't seem terribly welcoming.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#57 - 2016-09-05 18:26:52 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
That doesn't seem terribly welcoming.


Well, they are heathens.

Revile the Heathen, Shun the Unbeliever, Frown most Disapprovingly at Whoever It Is that Keeps Bringing in Boiled Sweets to Church and Sucking them during the Sermon because the Noise is Annoying.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#58 - 2016-09-05 19:32:59 UTC
How amusing it is to see such a fuss being made over something so small as a few words which can easily be replaced. I believe instead of focusing so much energy over something so incredibly pedantic, the overall premise and tone of the resolution should be evaluated. This is a historic moment in the Empire's history, and individuals who claim loyalty to the Federation are attempting to reach out with an olive branch and a hope for better understanding - only to be met with individuals solely focused on a few words of their proposal? ******* pathetic.

In an effort to guide the discussion in the right direction, here are some topics some concerned Amarr may wish to bring up:
- what exactly does the VA delegation hope to gain from this interaction?
- how can this foster a greater sense of mutual understanding?
- is there anything planned to promote the sustainability of these good-will acts, or is this just a one time thing?

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#59 - 2016-09-05 19:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: James Syagrius
Not exactly the response we had hoped for. What is strange is we have heard so little from those within the Imperial community who have known about and been supportive of this endeavor.
Teinyhr
Ourumur
#60 - 2016-09-05 20:23:27 UTC
Korsavius wrote:
How amusing it is to see such a fuss being made over something so small as a few words which can easily be replaced.


Entire planets have been razed with just a few words. How amusing it is to see that you think so little of words.