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SP is a problem for player retention, and there's a simple fix.
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Wimzy Chent-Shi

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 96

#21 - 2016-09-05 08:20:35 UTC | Edited by: Wimzy Chent-Shi

Dont know what the tell you honestly I was being semi-sarcastic, but just because the skill tree works as it is does not make it perfect. Grav physic 4 is not bad. It's lvl 5s that are primary concern of mine. And to certain degree it does make sense. But splitting the tree is indisputably a way for easier high end access. Easier high end access is definitelly a way to get someone to sub. How long they stay on sub is another issue.
I would like t2 things split. Logi 5 is rather OP jump in ship efficiency while its impact varies across

But then logi v is not a "support" skill per se, capacitor management is of reasonable concern.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016

3,997
Lugh Crow-Slave Likes received: 3,997	#22 - 2016-09-05 08:55:34 UTC what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills BLOPS Hauler The 16.8km Bubble

Wimzy Chent-Shi

Garoun Investment Bank

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 96

#23 - 2016-09-05 11:35:59 UTC | Edited by: Wimzy Chent-Shi

Well it's a choice between compulsity and redundancy. Fact that skills become redundant without being compulsory lile electronic upgrades and emergy grid upgrades is not mine to solve. But having full pg in your faction boat should be handy. Yet pg or engineering skill or whatever is it called makes an adept for exception since the training multiplier is 1 already but yet could be further reduced. We could back the change up with skill prereq correction.
Look at sensor strength compensation skills for instance cant see crowds wanting just one. Its essentialy the same a simple ship stat. Just because no one said hey, let's make it a prereq for something else should not be deciding factor.
We could just split the research among factions. Making prereqs seem silly is status quo anyway. Still reduces training time. But that's just one of possible attitudes.

Come get some cancer @ my blog !

"This clash of opinions is like cutting onions. We are creating something here, that's productive, ...and then there is also salt." -Wimzy 2016

State Protectorate Caldari State 8
Zoltan Cole State Protectorate Caldari State Likes received: 8	#24 - 2016-09-05 13:47:22 UTC Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

Zan Shiro

Doomheim

Likes received: 900

#25 - 2016-09-05 14:56:05 UTC | Edited by: Zan Shiro

Zoltan Cole wrote:

They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy.

How?

Bitters like me have these, and 5'd. Fly what you did before patch the ccp way....so bitters have all these 5'd day 1. Insert the we can't catch up quickly uproars here....1 step forward, 2 steps back here really.

Fresh meat comes in goes I want this new race now. WTH...I have to redo this all over again. This kind of eve's allure over other games. Rerolls at level 1, nothing carries over. I found it tiresome in time. WHy I liked eve. WU/AWU 5 suck balls I won't lie. But when its done, its done. Unless you roll cap alts...and that's a player decision to relive the pain lol.

Crosstrains are the weakness here. Fast to 1 race....annoying as hell to tack on new ones. More annoying than just being done.

Also pirate rebalance time....again. What support skills do they use for max ship stats?

Especially on the less cut and dry ships like nightmare and mach. Unlike gurista who heavily fall under caldari (fluff reasons, fatal and the rabbit stuff) other pirate races are all over. Nightmare is caldari and amarr. Whose cap skills take precedence? Amarr makes sense to me (controlling race of the primary weapon), someone will argue caldari. And we'd both be right lol.

Zoltan Cole

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 8

#26 - 2016-09-05 15:18:01 UTC | Edited by: Zoltan Cole

Zan Shiro wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

They're boring because they're ludicrous. Making them per-faction (small, simple) ensures that fresh subs find joy.

So that they experience ships with full stats before they unsub. The industry is ripe for skillful gameplay, based on knowledge, which an SP wall isn't.

Brokk Witgenstein

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 919

#27 - 2016-09-05 15:27:56 UTC | Edited by: Brokk Witgenstein

I still don't have all V support stats. While I cannot deny my comrades' numbers are more often than not higher than mine, I too get to dish out my fair share of punishment- and to be entirely candid, I enjoy doing so with not-all-V ships and support skills.

Whoever told you you *need* everything to V to enjoy your game does not know how to have a good time my friend Big smile

Lugh Crow-Slave

Likes received: 3,997

#28 - 2016-09-05 15:35:41 UTC

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

what i'm saying is you need PG V to get grav physic you need grav physic IV to fly a hic and then grav physic is also need for invention and R&D. if you split PG how do you make something like this chain work w/o having a bunch of redundant skills

Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

sigh.... train reading comprehension to at least level one please.

PG is the support skill in question I'm asking how grav physics would work as it needs that skill. understanding that try re-reading that dialog chain.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble

Zoltan Cole

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 8

#29 - 2016-09-05 15:42:46 UTC

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings.

Lugh Crow-Slave

Likes received: 3,997

#30 - 2016-09-05 16:55:03 UTC

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings.

.... what????

how would you handle a situation like grav physics?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble

Zoltan Cole

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 8

#31 - 2016-09-05 17:04:37 UTC

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings.

.... what????

how would you handle a situation like grav physics?

The same as any other that affects ship progression.

Solecist Project

Likes received: 33,643

#32 - 2016-09-05 18:12:54 UTC

Wimzy Chent-Shi wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

okay what about the skills that need these skills?

do you have a way for those to work? how are you going to keep their training time the same? can't just make them need all four of the race skills if you do that you will have players confused as to why they need gallente/amarr/mimatar PG to fly an onyx

tbh these skills do not take all that long to train

Factionalize ALL THE THINGS! There is faction strat cruiser let there be fac hic. And fac it all up. (ho ho a pun!)

HO HO A PUN

LOL :D

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Elenahina

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,742

#33 - 2016-09-05 19:59:35 UTC

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:

Zoltan Cole wrote:

Grav physics isn't a support skill, m8.

If PG was 4 skills but the same train, "redundancy" isn't really an argument vs. how fun it would be flying ships to their balanced tunings.

.... what????

how would you handle a situation like grav physics?

The same as any other that affects ship progression.

Translation: lI don't know, and I don't care because I don't care about that skill.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno


Solecist Project Likes received: 33,643	#34 - 2016-09-05 20:40:33 UTC \| Edited by: Solecist Project 1 This idea is well worthy of a 12 year old. That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Zan Shiro

Doomheim

Likes received: 900

#35 - 2016-09-06 01:21:36 UTC | Edited by: Zan Shiro

Elenahina wrote:

Translation: lI don't know, and I don't care because I don't care about that skill.

Lots of that going on this idea. Not sure they know just how extensive "support skills" really are. Tunnel visioned on CPU and Cap I'd wager. Lets talk about cap and how it relates to turrets. Controlled bursts is a gun support skill. Only 3 races use it. We getting 3 racial controlled bursts?

EANM also came to mind. Support skills hull upgrade and mechanics to use and unlock t2 in time. How are these working with racial hull upgrade and mechanics. I'll be nice...poof, minmatar hull upgrade/mech, he gets it. Now I will be mean. EANM gets him only explosive resists though. Guess how you get the other 3 resists.

All in one universal mod like this is not getting full unlocks from 1 racial train time reduced by 75%. Wants to be race based...lets take this all the way. Exp-minmatar, kin-caldari, em-amarr, therm-gallente. this would be the new way to complete EANM.

8 skills to do what 2 does now (hull upgrade and mechanics). Not really progress...the same time needed in the end to be complete.

Dolorous Tremmens

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 221

#36 - 2016-09-06 03:16:40 UTC | Edited by: Dolorous Tremmens

OP, you don't HAVE to train all those skills. You can drive t1 automatic transmission pintos around with potato guns and mattocks strapped to it in the mad max world of eve. Of course to use something bigger and better, you'll have to put the time and effort into it, but you don't HAVE to unless you want to compete, and you don't HAVE to compete in eve.

You can pay your sub and drive your pinto around the world yelling about freedom and no need for skills. Pretty soon you'll be allowed to drive your pinto around for free too. Don't expect others do either of those things.

Others know that in order to drive big rigs you have to know your airbrakes among many other things. Others know how to drive stick, and some can drive stick, use nitrous and know how to bolt on some decent guns. Some people know how to use a backhoe.

Now that I've had my fun, lets look at it from a lore-ish standpoint. You have limitless power, and a warp engine. You should probably know what you're doing in a more sophisticated ship, or you could blow up a station by getting in a ship with a power system you do not have the skills to control. There is a legacy warning when you eject from your ship in space that goes something like this: your craft may blow up because your skills may be all that is holding it together.

Now i must run, I have not trained Pisstanking V, my nav skills are not maxed and the boosters i've taken have warping side effects.

Get some Eve. Make it yours.

Teckos Pech

Hogyoku

Goonswarm Federation

Likes received: 6,771

#37 - 2016-09-06 05:46:32 UTC

Elenahina wrote:

I've read the OP four times and I still don't have a ******* clue what he's asking for.

He wants to remove certain skills thinking it will result in more players sticking with the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online


Teckos Pech Hogyoku Goonswarm Federation Likes received: 6,771	#38 - 2016-09-06 05:51:56 UTC 1 Danika Princip wrote: Hi Dror We have a winner. It is the second coming of Dror. "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek 8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Zoltan Cole

State Protectorate

Caldari State

Likes received: 8

#39 - 2016-09-06 12:55:36 UTC | Edited by: Zoltan Cole

Zan Shiro wrote:

EANM also came to mind. Support skills hull upgrade and mechanics to use and unlock t2 in time. How are these working with racial hull upgrade and mechanics.

All in one universal mod like this is not getting full unlocks from 1 racial train time reduced by 75%. Wants to be race based...lets take this all the way. Exp-minmatar, kin-caldari, em-amarr, therm-gallente. this would be the new way to complete EANM.

EANM II requires Hull Upgrades V. Ever ship benefits from armor, so every faction has to have a version of the skill.

Zan Shiro wrote:

8 skills to do what 2 does now (hull upgrade and mechanics). Not really progress...the same time needed in the end to be complete.

An 11D skill becomes 2.75D. Feel free to tell me how nice that is for fresh characters.


Brokk Witgenstein Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 919	#40 - 2016-09-06 13:14:32 UTC 1 Did you ever consider it's nice to wait for good things to happen? When I plug in a 20 day train, I eagerly anticipate completion; checking ridetheclown to see how much longer, planning all the fun things I'm gonna do once I'll finally get it... Ain't nothing wrong with having a long train on the list. 2.75 days sounds like instant gratification to me.

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