Intergalactic Summit

Nushi Selunix,

To what status are you referring? That immediately following the Minmatar Rebellion the large number of refugees fleeing the Amarr Empire came to the Federation and were given full citizenship? That their cultural traditions including the Voluval are welcomed and practiced by these Minmatar Federal citizens? That one may find Minmatar Federal citizens in all socio-economic areas and in all manner of careers within the Federation? That since the great emancipation of YC110 the Federation has continued its policy of welcoming those leaving the Empire and awarding them refugee status and citizenship?

Sang Do Xun Yu

Jueshi Xun Yu,

Thank you for bringing attention to my error in wording. It seems that I leapt a bit before I looked.

I was aiming at making the point that Ms. MacWinters made much more accurately here:



My larger point was not to paint the Matari experience within the Federation as either paradise or the depths, rather I wanted to make the point that the relationship is nuanced and marked my numerous motivations, much like the political relationship between the Federation and the Republic that Neph was alluding to earlier. Upon looking back at his comment, I can see that I probably would not agree with all of the characterizations that he used. Rather I agree with the general thrust that Federation policies in regards to the Matari may not be as altruistic as they are presented.

A short story from my aunt may help to illustrate: My aunt and uncle have raised all of my cousins in Sinq Laison. By all accounts, they're living the Gallentean Dream; they live in a wonderful home in a wealthy area surrounded by similarly situated neighbors. My cousins went to the best schools, and my aunt is, by all accounts a pillar of her community and is very active in charities throughout the Federation. Much like Ms. MacWinters, if you asked them, they would probably say that the Federation means much more to them than the Republic.

Despite that, they've been the subject of discrimination in so many little ways. Looks and whispers about town, the cold shoulder by some neighbors here or there. My aunt says that she's had to work twice as hard to make a real footing in the Federation because of her background and my cousins have tons of stories from school of racially-motivated bullying and outright indifference from teachers. My uncle loves telling the stories about how many visits from local authorities that they got when they first moved to the neighborhood for little things that other neighbors did all the time.

These stories have never been delivered with bile or self-pity; like my aunt is fond of saying 'it's the ink on the page' which is another way of saying it is what it is. It has taught my clan members in the Federation to be clear-eyed about the complicated relationship that they hold with the Federation as Matari. Keeping in mind that their experience is just one version of the Matari diaspora in the Federation, one that is colored by quite a bit of privilege based on the wealth and position of my aunt. I would bet that Ms. MacWinters and others could probably share very different stories as well. The point that I was attempting to make was that the relationship--or status as I inelegantly put it--between Matari living in the Federation and the Federation itself is difficult to categorize.

I hope that clarifies my much-to-brief aside

Be well Jueshi Xun Yu,

Pray sir, how should the Minmatar have dealt with the problem of living Starkmanir being rediscovered in Imperial space?

Unless I miss my guess the authorities would have been duty bound to complete the extermination of the tribe. This seems a certainty given who the highest authority was at the time. Karsoth, the Blood Raider sympathiser.

Had the Tribes waited, do you think treaties would have saved our kin?

This tends to make my point about elements within the Empire being a problem, rather than the whole. Unfortunately those elements include heir families and a legal system that does what it does because a old edict says it should.

Oh, they've been treated badly on balance, no doubt. Though I think a closer look would reveal that the emancipated tribesfolk have been more readily accepted in some pockets than by others. But certainly the racism and abuse that I talked about in the story of my aunt can probably be heard by returning Matari to the Republic.

However, I don't think that negates any criticism of the relationship between the Federation and Matari living in their territory; it just means that the Federation isn't alone in having complex relationships with discrimination of minorities. It wasn't my intention to argue that the Federation was somehow worse that the Republic in terms of morality or policy. I'm attempting to point fingers from an equal footing, not down from above.

And don't be too cross, Mr. Syagrius, this thread definitely isn't worth it. It's not good for your health and it reeks havoc with your skin. Treat yourself to something nice.

It is a big problem and only likely to get bigger. You need to be brutally honest and up front about it. I have a friend who is racially Minmatar and culturally Caldari and I would react most violently towards anyone who insisted he was due anything but the respect owed to any other citizen. My culture tells me that anyone who follows The Way and proves themselves IS Caldari.

I have no other recourse - not because it would be unfair to him, but because if it is otherwise then The Way is a lie, and if The Way is a lie then what is truth, anymore?

The tribes need to hold strong to their beliefs and culture and to be ruthless about cutting out those who do not share their culture from their society. As my dear wife says, Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

You must be selective. It really IS kinder, both to you and to them. There is nothing wrong with letting them choose, but once they choose the Empire and the Empire's Faith you must let go of them.

Honestly, I can't see how the people of the two faiths can be reconciled either and it worries me. I mean, even within my decidedly cosmopolitan family, there isn't much sympathy for Matari of the Amarrian Faith. These are people that work with people of all faiths around the Cluster, even actual Amarr and hold a 'live and let live' idea about spiritual beliefs. This issue though, cuts to the heart of the idea of Matari freedom, which is why it's so emotional--namely the idea of being free of Amarrian beliefs. My uncle's a respected shaman among the Vherokior and is usually a powerful voice for tolerance. However when it comes to Amarrian Faithful from the new tribes, he's said some scary stuff. Nothing in public, mind you, but even in public his stance is pretty harsh.

You know, back in college, I read an academic article that suggested that the Matari spiritual understanding of the world was diametrically different than the Amarrian one on the subject of hierarchy. The article then went on to surmise that this fundamental difference explained the continued animus between our peoples and also how Matari were able to resist Amarrian culture in any successful way during the Occupation. I wish I remember who wrote it, but I found it interesting.

I read somewhere else that the inherent flexibility of Matari spirituality might also be an asset for furthering greater tolerance for all religions, and aside from this issue, I've seen that to be true. My take on the whole thing is that the root of the problem isn't so much our different spiritual systems, but how they've been positioned in relation to where these tribes stand in the social and political order of the Republic, and where they're wanting to go. Right now, newcomers coming into the Republic are on the bottom, pure and simple and they don't want to stay there. The Starkminir and Nafantar that I've met seem to feel that they are entitled to a greater role in the Republic, regardless of their religion. I think this generally gets received as a threat by most established tribefolk and the religious differences is like fuel to a smoldering fire.

If it's possible to lump the Matari Amarr Faithful into their own Tribe we could simplify matters drastically. However, going up to the Tribal Council and suggesting such a thing will likely trigger a fistfight.

Well, screw it. Let us go and do exactly that. We will also bring along camera drones.

Ms. Selunix, thank you for your honesty and the kindness of your response, despite my tenor.

Many of the comments above are troubling to me knowing something of the mission of the Church of Blessed Servitude, so memorably exemplified by the mission of Bro. Abel Jarek of blessed memory.

What good is it to fight for a man's freedom, if you don’t plan on welcoming him once free? Doesn’t the very act of denying them invalidate the very reason for the war with the Amarr?

Please don’t take this as a criticism, everyone has issues with tolerance and acceptance, but this seems to be a foundational question.

What will the former republic be?

The Federation has the wherewithal to accept those Matar who wish to keep ‘The Faith’ but decide not to live within the Empire, and no doubt they add a great deal to our civilization.

It would, however, be in my estimation a great tragedy should your civilization not find a way to welcome them.

Yes....

Reading this thread makes me wonder whether I can consider myself a Khanid, or not.