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Returning player Tengu lvl4 mission runner looking for more

Author
Lone Crusader
Legion of Fury
#1 - 2016-09-02 04:28:59 UTC
so i usually run lvl4s in a Tengu am looking into other options for lvl4 missions
currently @
640dps (change missile types for certain missions of course)
omni tank 58/92/88/79 with 444 shieldboost every 3.2 sec cap stable (tanks all the standard missions)
speed 632m/sec speed (cruise around and loot until the last enemy is killed then move on to next room/mission)

was looking for new ship(s) to run missions

my 1st thoughts are:

Claymore
Nightmare
Rattlesnake
CN Raven
CN Scorpion
Gila
CN Drake (seems like )
HACs except minmitar not to lvl5 crusier with them yet (18 more days)

already have drake and nighthawk mission runners

open to other ships too


havent run burner missions yet but looking to in the future

78mil sp well rounded
lvl5 BC skill all races
command ship lvl5
lvl4 battleship (lvl5 caldari) havent gotten the marauder skill yet but willing to try it


to sum it up looking to expand my ship inventory so i can have options on how i want to run my missions (max isk or just lazy laid back seeing if i can find any good loot)
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#2 - 2016-09-02 04:55:34 UTC
A Golem can push nearly twice that DPS and well over double that in tank, though for a steeper price on hull compared to a Tengu, though you generally don't need to rely on A-Types to get both that offense and defense at the same time. If you have some descent or better drone skills, a Rattler can actually still tank like the old days but now has a host of options to do even more damage as well since drones still do good solid damage and they now actually hit decently with missiles. That gives the Rattlesnake the ability to cross past 1K DPS range and even push 1.2K or more in some cases. CNR, still a pretty strong Navy boat when fit for L4s, could be a good stepping stone to the Golem until you have Marauders to 4 or 5 and have the isk for the boat. A Rattler would be cheaper hull-wise, but would require cross training another battleship skill and at least two weapon systems rather than one. The other BS boats I haven't had a lot of time in or any time in. As for the non-BS boats listed in particular, they can work, but not much better if at all better than a Tengu anyways.

For Burners, there's a guide floating around here that I've seen a few times. Either wait for the author to chime in after me or you could search for it yourself, but either way it would be a great start for someone trying out burners for the first time. First thing to point out about them is that they are NOT like L4's, so those same battleships are a no-go. You'll likely need to invest in several ships with very specific builds, ones that are fortunately inexpensive compared to the average L4 fit on a battleship.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-09-02 06:37:59 UTC
Fit your tengu with hams and range rigs, much better performance
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#4 - 2016-09-02 14:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Fit your tengu with hams and range rigs, much better performance

How and why?
Any of the Marauders and most of the BS listed will have more tank and more gank than the Tengu.

The Tengu's only advantage over the BS and Marauders is speed. Yet the longer range of the weapons, the additional tank that means you simply point at the next gate and shoot while traveling, the higher dps and the ability to use MJD negates the speed advantage and in fact allows for faster completion of most missions. If you are blitzing level 4 non-burners then you want a Machariel anyway.

OP of the ships you listed I would advise against the Gila, Drake and the HAC's, not because they cannot handle level 4 mission, simply because they will be significantly slower to complete them compared to the other options.

Never flown a Claymore so I will not comment on that.

Of the ships that are left in your list the as a drones pilot at heart the Rattle would be my favorite.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-09-03 13:07:15 UTC
Warp speed is a thing and tengu is great at blitzing. Notice op didn't mention marauders or a mach
Lone Crusader
Legion of Fury
#6 - 2016-09-03 14:36:38 UTC
just started marauders skill thinking about getting a golem

looking to break things up a bit in the normal mission routine

gonna look into the mach

does anyone use a claymore? the high rate of fire and non specific missile damage seems like a good choice or is it not worth fitting out for missions
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2016-09-03 15:05:25 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Warp speed is a thing and tengu is great at blitzing. Notice op didn't mention marauders or a mach

guess you must have missed this part of his OP.
Lone Crusader wrote:
was looking for new ship(s) to run missions

I do not see any limitation on what ships he would consider either, nothing about race, cost etc and that means that 1. the OP is willing to consider ALL ships, or 2. they simply forgot to mention any restrictions on what they would fly so that leaves all ships open for them to consider.

The Tengu is a great level 3 blitz ship, but even there they Mach will give you faster completion times in most of the missions.
Once you move up to level 4 non-burner mission the Tengu's speed simply cannot overcome the Mach's advantages of tank and DPS for most of the missions in the pool.

Speed is only a factor when the rest of the capabilities of the various ships are roughly equal, or when the faster ship approaches double the speed of the slower ship. In the case of the Tengu and the Mach they are not even close to equal in tank or DPS and when fit as a level 4 mission ship the Tengu does not even come close to doubling the speed of the Mach. If you think your Tengu is the BEST level 4 mission ship then fly on wasting time with each mission that is your choice.

The most important part of this topics that the OP has a Tengu, if they were happy with using that Tengu is it unlikely they would be here asking for alternative ships to use for level 4's. In a very real way suggesting that they use a Tengu when we already know that they have a Tengu and want something different is rather useless.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#8 - 2016-09-03 15:22:05 UTC
Lone Crusader wrote:
just started marauders skill thinking about getting a golem

looking to break things up a bit in the normal mission routine

gonna look into the mach

does anyone use a claymore? the high rate of fire and non specific missile damage seems like a good choice or is it not worth fitting out for missions

If you are going to go Marauder the Golem is a good choice and it is my go to mission ship but then I have a somewhat unique set of reasons for liking it. I fly missions in all 4 major factions space because I have RL friends that choose to live all over the EvE universe and the Golem is a good fit for that because it has the most consistent killing speed across all NPC races. No it is not the fastest just the most consistent and that is more important to me.

If you mission is a singe area of space either the Vargur or the Paladin may be better options than the Golem, so I suggest you look into those as well.

I have never seen a mission fit Claymore, that does not mean there is not one out there somewhere just that I have never seen one. I have tried other command ships in the past, while they have the tank and DPS to run level 4's they lack the speed of the Tengu and that made for rather lackluster completion times. My suggestion is give it a try if you like the ship, because in the end flying what you enjoy is more important they how quickly it can complete a mission.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#9 - 2016-09-03 16:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
Donnachadh wrote:

"The Tengu is a great L3 blitz ship, but even there the Mach will give you faster completion times in most of the missions."

Well, that's not quite exactly right.

If you or anyone remembers, I challenged Stoic's Mach on his completion times, with a Tengu.

Of the L3 mmissions that were run, I beat almost all his times. Remember his spread sheet? I don't have the data in front of me, and it is in another post, but I believe I beat the Mach in 18 out of 20 missions.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Tengu vs Mach in L4s. Mach wins hands down. Mach was said to be the king of L3s in bitzing, not so much now.



-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Lone Crusader
Legion of Fury
#10 - 2016-09-03 23:03:44 UTC
played around with a claymore setup

5x CN heavy missile launchers (mission specific damage type)
drone link augmenter
auto targeting system

gist x-type large shield booster
2x CN adaptive invullns
large cap battery ll
10mn AB ll
cap reacharger ll

3x CN Ballistic Control System
Drone Damage Amp ll ( gives more overall dps than a 4th CN Ballistic Control System)

Bay Loader Accelerator
Warhead Calefaction Catalyst

5x mission specific medium tech 2 drones

seems very similar to what i run in my tengu other than i would be running with drones and missiles
damage and tank are very close other than in terms of mission specific tanking claymore will be better vs EM and the tengu better vs kinetic

i do have very good drone skills (had a carrier years ago)

claymore is pocket change as i have all the fittings already and not to long to grind isk

i browsed around some golem builds and think ill have to start saving for that (have the isk but dont fly a ship unless i can replace it with all modules)

seems the mach is a blitzer does it tank well for completion missions?

played around with Nightmare on test server heart sank and disappointment to my expectations (probly with not having tech2 large lasers)

gonna test server rattlesnake, mach, and barghest
any fitting help with mission runner Battleships feel free to reply
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#11 - 2016-09-04 09:37:05 UTC
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#12 - 2016-09-04 13:51:53 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:
Donnachadh wrote:

"The Tengu is a great L3 blitz ship, but even there the Mach will give you faster completion times in most of the missions."

Well, that's not quite exactly right.

If you or anyone remembers, I challenged Stoic's Mach on his completion times, with a Tengu.

Of the L3 mmissions that were run, I beat almost all his times. Remember his spread sheet? I don't have the data in front of me, and it is in another post, but I believe I beat the Mach in 18 out of 20 missions.

Just wanted to clarify that.

Tengu vs Mach in L4s. Mach wins hands down. Mach was said to be the king of L3s in bitzing, not so much now.



-Kirst

Thank you for the reminder, I did not remember this until I read your post.
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#13 - 2016-09-04 16:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
Lone Crusader,

Looking at your Claymore fit, my first glance I didn't like what I saw. I punched the mods into EFT and I still didn't like it.
Sorry, that's just my opinion. There are many mods that I wouldn't use, and something much better could be put in their place.

I wouldn't use CN launchers. You could only use faction missiles at best. T2 launchers allows you to use Fury missiles, and get a lot more damage output, which is needed.
I would eliminate the auto targeting, and the drone link, and replace them with ?? (maybe some guns?)
I wouldn't use CN invul. flds, T2 would be fine.
I wouldn't use a cap recharger or a cap battery, maybe use a MGC or target painter or ??

Gist X large shield booster? In a missile fit Tengu, a pith C med shield booster worked fine.
The Tengu also has a smaller signature than the Claymore, maybe that helped too.

Seems like you want to rely on drones in a Command ship. I think you know Med drones don't do so well on elite frigates.
Maybe the drone use is to help with the low dps of the heavies, but the overall dps is still low for L4s. With the Tengu, for Guristas missions, using Scrouge Fury, it puts out a lot more dps.

I don't know, I'm just not seeing it, I think you might struggle with that set-up. A passive tanked Drake probably would do better. How about a NightHawk?

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#14 - 2016-09-04 21:10:53 UTC
I have both a Tengu and a Rattlesnake on this char. for L4's, and have had a Golem in the past.
Sold the Golem a while back. With pretty good drone skills, I get over 1100 fit window dps from a passive tanked RS, with Gardes/Wardens/Hob's and a Gecko in the drone bay, 5 T2 launchers using t2 ammo. (kin/therm as the mission wants)

Isk/hr is highest for me on the RS, passive means I don't care about the odd neut mission, (SoE)
With the changes last year-ish in reprocessing, the salvage ability of the Golem became much less profitable per hour.

Also I can fit a RS and rig it (T2 purgers, Dread Gurista invuln and hardeners, 2x T2 DDA's, and T2 target painter), for 2-300 million less than the current cost of a Golem hull.
I still have the Tengu, and use it for the few missions I blitz. It does not do well in the missions with BS class neuts lol. The Golem cared, for the 5 seconds it took to kersplode the neut ships lol.

Mobile tractor in the hold for the missions that need you to pick up an item, and for cherry picking loot. ( I never bother to wait for it to finish, just take what it gives me by the time everything is dead or I get the mission objective.

Keep some Precision cruises in the hold for elite webbing frigs that will kill your drones, and good to go.
Omni tanked so never any delay jumping to next mission.

Gila used to be the same-ish for mission running time as my Tengu, when it could still use sentries, don't know about now.

So for me Rattlesnake is king for L4's, but it isn't overly engaging. And it wants 4 million plus SP in drones before it really comes in to it's own. YMMV.

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#15 - 2016-09-05 02:58:32 UTC
Mach, snake or a marauder (any of them) are the obvious ones to look at.

Or if you're reaching a fill from L4s in general, go run some incursions in a vindi or nightmare

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager