Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I am quite new so let me ask: Attributes don't affect my acutal skills but only the time needed to learn them, right?

how does not wanting to be punished for wanting to train a certain combination = insta titans?


even with perfect training now you are not going to have max skills in less than two decades not that it matters anymore since people already have max skills thanks to injectors

What was in times past is not relevant to what is today.

Because it is better than it was does that mean that it cannot or should not be improved?

Attributes and how and when to change them has been and still is one of the biggest areas of confusion for the new to EvE players that I come into contact with for this reason alone removing them would be an excellent idea.

And I remind everyone that CCP has stated that attributes will be going away, it is not a matter of IF it is a matter of when and what will they be replaced with and in that way any and all discussion on attributes and how to replace them is valid, even if you think the idea is terrible.

I've played in both eras of skill training we've had so far. Ths current system is better than the old one, which is actually relatively simple compared to some I've seen. Yes the system is a pain, however between skill injectors and remaps, if you manage them properly, it's not all that bad of a system. Not to the point personally that it would be worth rewriting half the game.

You are correct in your understanding.

This whole argument is based on the lack of patience. Children these days are conditioned for immediate reward and can't get their arms around the satisfaction of completing long term goals. They derive no pleasure from earning, just attaining. This is an example of the fall of modern society.

Donnachadh is a perfect example "What was in times past is not relevant to what is today." This is precisely the line of thinking that shackles us to a rise and fall species. The further we rise, the more convenient it is to forget.

We are doomed as a society and CCP is a pawn forced to adjust a rich and beautiful game to the falling standards and whims of a self indulgent player base.

If you take anything from this thread - it's learn how to fish - it may save your life.

Before I go and kill myself so I can come back from the beyond and do all kinds of funny stuffs, why not have everyone just not train at all and we play:

EVE Tournament Online from this day on instead?

I like attributes or at least the concept of character customisation beyond the aesthetics.

I'm aware it can be a pita for some gameplay. I think separating them from training speed will be a good thing, but I'd rather not discard them all together. It might to interesting to overhaul implants and attributes entirely. Thinking of a system more like other games where attributes improve stats and then implants improve attributes and/or stats.

E.g mock up:
Perception improves:
weapon, drone and e-war optimal/falloff/missile velocity, targeting range and probe str.

Agility improves:
ship and drone mobility, scan res, weapon tracking and missile precision, probe speed.

Will power improves:
capacitor, reduces overheat damage, improves sensor str and e-war resist.

Intelligence improves:
e-war str, industry, research, hacking and mining.

Charisma improves:
tax rates, lp payouts, npc interaction.

Strength improves:
damage and tank.



This approach kinda penalises people for partaking in more than one playstyle however and encourages min/maxing. This can be mitigated however with diminishing returns on attributes, stacking penalties on implants and by assigning attributes to jump clones rather than characters. Then allow remaps per year on your jump clones.

This is one of those topics that comes up frequently because it's a topic both sides are pretty passionate about. Personally, I'm on the side of "keep attributes and implants the way they are", but I also think it's a lost cause.

There have been two major developments in the recent past that bypassed learning attributes. "Dailies", which were later removed. And skill injectors, which seem to be a permanent part of the game. Both allow players to simply get skillpoints to apply to any skill without penalty, without regard for the skill's attributes or the player's current attribute map.

For a personal example, when dailies were temporarily introduced, I certainly participated. By the end of the trial period, I had 300,000 skillpoints (if memory serves correctly. 10,000 a day x 30 days right?). As I had just started my command ships/combat booster training, I held onto the skillpionts to apply to the only part of the skill plan that was sub-optimal - the actual command ship training. Had the dailies been kept in-game, I'm sure most people would have done precisely the same thing; skill train the most optimal/highest sp per hour skills, use the free SP generated to chip away and slowly train the sub-optimal.

In a way, skill injectors are much the same (though I have not ever bought one). I believe that right now, the SP you get per isk is a lot less than paying a plex and skilling at the normal rate. Regardless, doesn't it make sense to apply those SP to skills you want to or need to train, but your attributes are better suited to other things that are still very important to your skillplan? Sure, you can use an injector to knock some time off of a current skill you're already optimized to train, but it's not nearly as efficient, and I think the majority of injector users would rather the former than the latter.

Preferences aside, the fact that you can bypass attributes at all seems like a signal from CCP that they would rather be rid of them. I've heard all the arguments in favor of keeping attributes, and I've made plenty myself. But I think their removal is inevitable. I think the only question is really, "what comes next?"

I think that major nullsec powers have CCP's ear, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either. In many ways null is the most important part of this game. But they often advocate for removal of attribute implants because they don't get to use them to the same extent that high-seccers and low-seccers do. I feel that is good balance, nullsec has the big wealth of the EvE universe, and highsec people have an easier time grinding skills. If you remove implants as part of the attribute equation, you essentially signal that you want all the advantages to be in nullsec. I feel that each section of security territory should have advantages and disadvantages, and upsetting that ecosystem to favor nullsec too much is not a good thing.

So, if attributes are removed and/or flattened, I hope they still keep implants for those willing to use them. Other people have advocated for boosters or accelerators instead, so they can still use them when they PvP in dangerous zones. That smacks of "I want to have my cake and eat it too, without gaining weight to boot!". But removal of learning implants would have major repercussions throughout the EvE economy, since they're a major LP store item and a frequent mission reward item. Any attempt to remove them will, by necessity, include a major overhaul of LP stores, risk balancing, skill learning rebalance, etc. Which is why I think it's a long-term goal of CCP's, but probably won't be soon since they have much on their plate already. Although I think we were all surprised by the recent "alpha clones" announcement, I wouldn't imagine another big thing coming from CCP until the ship balance - including and especially the tech-3 cruiser lineup, has been rebalanced. Once that major undertaking is finished, I'd expect them to revisit skills, attributes, and training speed.

Set implants would need a rebalance.

Some people buy these for the +4 or +3 aspects for the training.

Example: With several changes the sensor strength effect of say talons has been lessened over the years for me.

CCP removed unprobable (left hard to probe in, more on that later). Removed sig bloom of fury ammo. Introduced sensor skills, Realigned SBA and ECCM into Sig amp and SEBO.

Basically if going for hard to probe one no longer needs HG's. Or even MG's. In my case I run sensor HG's for the training speed at this point. If caught and podded, which would be funny as the talon clone has lived for years...and in 0.0 for a time, and no attributes I'd have no need to buy HG's really.


Had my talons, looking at jackals for some minmatar ideas. I do that they will be HG's as well. For that +4. Clones they go in obviously designed to not die. I try to hide in plain site as it were lol.

Crystals and such fall here. LG or MG as I pyfa them are decent enough for some strong tanks at cheaper price. HG's usually the realm of richer players making a max train speed pve clone.


No attributes....what will CCP do to give us to fill in that void. Its a paid for feature...take something away usually means give something back. Stronger crystals, would we get them? My talons not needing even SEBO anymore for hard to probe?
Will snakes be un-nerfed? As I recall snakes loooong ago, iirc what bitters told me, were faster and had speed bonus lowered for balance reasons.


And will ccp adjust LP costs, the source of these by and large? CCP hasn't even adjusted these in light of the exploration gold rush as it were. The fact more than half the lp items in this game are useless seems to be that subtle clue they are missing change is needed.

Useless in that you can get pith b if not A cheaper for some say shield mods. Who in their right mind would buy CN shield items when pith does it better, and cheaper.