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Intergalactic Summit

 
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An actual discussion about the Empire and the Federation
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Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#61 - 2016-09-01 17:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tressith Sefira
Diana Kim wrote:
Hate is not opposite of Love. Hate is the product of love. The more you love something, the more you want to protect it. And the more you want to protect it, the more you hate what tries to hurt it.

As for the indifference, I agree, it is the opposite of love. Indifference is one of the worst vices of the humanity. And we, Caldari, don't appreciate it, just like we don't appreciate individualism. Humans were forged to live in societies and help each other.

Unfortunately... I do know this group of people. There was time when I didn't know them - and I thought about gallente as funny and weird people. Actually, when we visited the Federation by exchange to train together I was even thinking I'd like to stay there forever.

I have knowledge about what I am speaking, and my eyes were opened on them even before the war has started. I never knew people could be such violent to others only because they are of different bloodline... I don't think thouh I want to continue this direction of the conversation.

I am happy however that there are a lot of people in the Federation who don't consider themselves gallente and Federal. I hope they won't commit racial crimes, they deserve to live in a better world that isn't controlled by Federal fascists.


Hate is the product of love. Couldn't of put it better myself. In policing, we gotta be careful of our culture and our attitudes... We got a narrative of moral redemption. We got a saying, "Us versus our mutual lack of understanding." And we have to say it to ourselves every time we chase a criminal down. Every time we see a criminal in court. Every time we perform an investigation. Not us against them, because we're all in this together. The police, the community. We're all trying to become better than we were yesterday. In ages past, policing... We didn't know that in policing. We loved our communities and hated criminals even though criminals are members of a community. We hated criminals because we wanted them to be better and we didn't think they could be better. So they never got better. We know now that the only way to help them improve is to love them and fight back the hate and try our best to understand why people break the law. Together.

I like the Federation in that it allowed for that progression of understanding in policing and policing policy. Don't think that'd be possible in other places.

Indifference is a real hard problem here in the Federation. I know the Federation has the means to save all the Omega cities, to get rid of the economic inequality gap, and to protect every planet from the Sansha harvest. I WISH we cared about ourselves more. I can't ethically justify doing anything warlike to myself when inside the Federation we still have so much to fix.

You might like the member state I work in. Maybe you could give this little part of the Federation a second chance and check it out with me sometime.

And yeah, William, Miss Kim, I'm big on cultural relativity but Roden's fixation on war and the military and his strange moves in those areas scare me. It's just not what the Federation's supposed to be about and I don't think that he really cares about the Federation and the Federal ideals. I think he cares about himself and war and that's it. I think the domestics can go **** themselves in his opinion unless they get in the way of his agenda and then he'll pull his military prowess around and crush the domestics.

Don't like it. Don't like it one bit.
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#62 - 2016-09-01 17:53:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tressith Sefira
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
William Danneskjold wrote:
You would agree with me, too, then, when I say that the Federation participates in a particularly insidious and effective cultural imperialism?


It is far less effective than it once was - perhaps because it became too obvious. Many cultures are now lost in it's coils, not noticing that Gallente really means Garoun until they were so enmeshed that they couldn't escape - I refer to the Mannar, the Jin-Mei and many others.

The Intaki, though, I think possess the strength to regain their independence. And the Caldari, of course, are the Caldari.


I think my Jin-Mei friend and leader Sang Do Xun'd be quite amused with your claim on the Jin-Mei's behalf that they're being culturally dominated by the Federation and the core Federation worlds.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#63 - 2016-09-01 18:06:47 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
William Danneskjold wrote:
You would agree with me, too, then, when I say that the Federation participates in a particularly insidious and effective cultural imperialism?


It is far less effective than it once was - perhaps because it became too obvious. Many cultures are now lost in it's coils, not noticing that Gallente really means Garoun until they were so enmeshed that they couldn't escape - I refer to the Mannar, the Jin-Mei and many others.

The Intaki, though, I think possess the strength to regain their independence. And the Caldari, of course, are the Caldari.


I think my Jin-Mei friend and leader Sang Do Xun'd be quite amused with your claim on the Jin-Mei's behalf that they're being culturally dominated by the Federation and the core Federation worlds.


Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#64 - 2016-09-01 18:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tressith Sefira
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.


And I want to bring back my point that the Federation doesn't exactly destroy differing opinions - I wanna call back to that post where I likened it to noise. It's like a big popularity contest here all the time and while you might not get destroyed in a contest it certainly sucks and feels bad to lose and be excluded. And the Garoun always win, because they're the ones who started the stupid contest.

And maybe after you lose so many times you stop trying to play. Maybe sometimes you give up so much you just imitate the winner.
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2016-09-01 18:24:31 UTC
William Danneskjold wrote:
Considering I'm the chief contributor to a conversation in a sea of trolls, I'll assume Diana hired you and ignore you from here on out.

Correct, Luna Hanaya is employed by Diana Kim as a off-grid warfare link booster and more and more often of late, a post-liker and cheerleader in arguments.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.
William Danneskjold
#66 - 2016-09-01 18:42:50 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.


And I want to bring back my point that the Federation doesn't exactly destroy differing opinions - I wanna call back to that post where I likened it to noise. It's like a big popularity contest here all the time and while you might not get destroyed in a contest it certainly sucks and feels bad to lose and be excluded. And the Garoun always win, because they're the ones who started the stupid contest.

And maybe after you lose so many times you stop trying to play. Maybe sometimes you give up so much you just imitate the winner.


As I said, the assumption of the Gallente is that you'll assimilate into their culture. The Jin-Mei are an exception. The fledgeling Caldari, two centuries ago, are an excellent example of it. "You do not meet our definition of success, so we will exterminate your way of life and fold you into ours in our image."

War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#67 - 2016-09-01 18:46:18 UTC
William Danneskjold wrote:

As I said, the assumption of the Gallente is that you'll assimilate into their culture. The Jin-Mei are an exception. The fledgeling Caldari, two centuries ago, are an excellent example of it. "You do not meet our definition of success, so we will exterminate your way of life and fold you into ours in our image."


Tressith Sefira wrote:
I doubt most Federation civilians care about the Federation much at all; I've said it before, but the overwhelming majority of Federation citizens don't speak Gallente. I mean like 60-80% of Federation citizens don't speak Gallente. Each member state mostly retains their own form of government from before they got their invitation from the Federation, and I know I've said this before - Caille is a Kingdom! No one seems to know that. Most Federation citizens don't consider themselves Gallente and instead think of themselves as citizens of their planetary government, member state first.


Then they're either doing a shite job at it or you don't know what you're talking about.
William Danneskjold
#68 - 2016-09-01 19:16:07 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
William Danneskjold wrote:

As I said, the assumption of the Gallente is that you'll assimilate into their culture. The Jin-Mei are an exception. The fledgeling Caldari, two centuries ago, are an excellent example of it. "You do not meet our definition of success, so we will exterminate your way of life and fold you into ours in our image."


Tressith Sefira wrote:
I doubt most Federation civilians care about the Federation much at all; I've said it before, but the overwhelming majority of Federation citizens don't speak Gallente. I mean like 60-80% of Federation citizens don't speak Gallente. Each member state mostly retains their own form of government from before they got their invitation from the Federation, and I know I've said this before - Caille is a Kingdom! No one seems to know that. Most Federation citizens don't consider themselves Gallente and instead think of themselves as citizens of their planetary government, member state first.


Then they're either doing a shite job at it or you don't know what you're talking about.


As I said, the assumption of the Gallente is that you'll assimilate into their culture.

First line. Your beliefs must be made to assimilate into theirs. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the history of the Caldari and Gallente, then? I do know they teach in Caldari schools that the Gallente were the Big Bads, and in the Gallente schools that the Caldari were the big bads. I'll educate you.

In the beginning, the Caldari founded a corporatist empire on the world, Caldari Prime. The Gallente formed their social democracy on the next planet over. In time, they met with the Caldari and said, to simplify it, "We don't like your way of life. We can't find a way to integrate it into our culture, so we will wage war with you."

Both sides of the war had their monsters, certainly. But that is the Gallente way. "We can't find a way to fit your culture into ours, then it must be wrong." Their culture of freedom is admirable. Their demand that others conform to it is not. In structure, the Federation allows its sub states to exist with certain freedoms to preserve that, but overall, they have to conform to the Federation's overall ideology. Which has, as you pointed out, lead to smaller cultures being drowned out in the noise.

The Intaki are another great example of this. There has been an active movement to liberate Intaki for years now. The Federation's response has been without fail, "We can't see why you'd want to leave us, therefore you can't." You should contact members of the Intaki Liberation Front if it is still active for their personal experiences with this. Intaki society in general has been allowed to assimilate where they so chose, but their autonomy in reality is gone. Ultimately, their culture's choice is now the same as the Caldari. Assimilate or die.

The Minmatar moving to the Republic have largely conformed to this, abandoning primitive tribal rituals for modernized ways of life. This is not Imperialism. They are choosing to abandon those.

The Federation does not tolerate that to exist, which cannot be assimilated into itself. Perhaps you misunderstood that as 'become Garoun and die', but it more means 'Fit our ideals into yours or we'll remove your culture from existence'. And in some cases, as you've provided examples, that is fine. These cultures are adaptable. However, in others, not so much.

War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
Silen Serine
#69 - 2016-09-01 19:18:58 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
I kinda thinka the Federation as havin' a religion of freedom so I always figured it was at least comparable! Do you think differently?

It's an interesting notion, devotion to liberty that borders on worship. However, I think I agree with your subsequent characterizations of the typical Federation citizen as disinterested, to the point that I don't feel the quote above is the norm.

Liberty Federate, in my view, is most keenly sensed under threat; that is, one is more likely to appreciate its value when it is possible to be parted from it. The average Federation citizen is fully immersed in the experience of personal liberty, such that they are all but inured to its presence. It is a given that, while they may acknowledge, they certainly do not relish in its abstract in the way that a zealot of Amarr does.

My mother often prays to the Lunaries. Does she expect them to answer, or to intercede on her behalf? No. She certainly does not think they imbue their adherents with the moral agency to impune a follower of any of our innumerable belief systems. She finds comfort in the ritual, an imaginative exercise, and I believe that most citizens of the Federation, those that are practitioners, are not dissimilar.

In any case, I appreciate the topic and well-reasoned responses. I hope my own observations are in keeping with the spirit you intend. Good day.
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#70 - 2016-09-01 19:42:49 UTC
Silen Serine wrote:

It's an interesting notion, devotion to liberty that borders on worship. However, I think I agree with your subsequent characterizations of the typical Federation citizen as disinterested, to the point that I don't feel the quote above is the norm.

Liberty Federate, in my view, is most keenly sensed under threat; that is, one is more likely to appreciate its value when it is possible to be parted from it. The average Federation citizen is fully immersed in the experience of personal liberty, such that they are all but inured to its presence. It is a given that, while they may acknowledge, they certainly do not relish in its abstract in the way that a zealot of Amarr does.

My mother often prays to the Lunaries. Does she expect them to answer, or to intercede on her behalf? No. She certainly does not think they imbue their adherents with the moral agency to impune a follower of any of our innumerable belief systems. She finds comfort in the ritual, an imaginative exercise, and I believe that most citizens of the Federation, those that are practitioners, are not dissimilar.

In any case, I appreciate the topic and well-reasoned responses. I hope my own observations are in keeping with the spirit you intend. Good day.


It is so hard to try to generalize about the Federation because, yeppers, it's so pluralistic.

Yeppers, yep, yes. I can agree with all'a that. Federal ideals and ideas just aren't relevant unless push comes to shove, and they're closest to the noise of their own lives and their own planets and that's only what they can hear. Don't think that part's an inherently good or bad thing. Certainly does us a service by decentralizing the power here.

And I always thinka the Amarr of trying to ingrain centralization so it's first and foremost. Like all rituals are to keep the noise of the center of the psyche and the things that the citizens see and experience around them on their planets and in their cities and colonies in the peripherals. Which after a wonderful talk with Miss Jenneth, we've come to agree makes the whole of the Empire much more stable.

I do wonder about the stability of the Federation in comparison to that staunch intractability of the Empire.

Also, your post? Exactly what I was hoping for! Thank you for contributing!
William Danneskjold
#71 - 2016-09-01 20:11:36 UTC
Gah. I'm getting sidetracked by pedantry.

My original point was:

The Federation's greatest asset is its vast array of cultures and noises, and the mostly violence-free integration of it, which is vastly different from the centralized authority of the Empire.

War is murder. It always has been, always will be. Murder in the name of God. Freedom. Your country. Whatever it is, it is murder. I am already against the next set of wars.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2016-09-02 01:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.


And I want to bring back my point that the Federation doesn't exactly destroy differing opinions - I wanna call back to that post where I likened it to noise. It's like a big popularity contest here all the time and while you might not get destroyed in a contest it certainly sucks and feels bad to lose and be excluded. And the Garoun always win, because they're the ones who started the stupid contest.

And maybe after you lose so many times you stop trying to play. Maybe sometimes you give up so much you just imitate the winner.


That's the thing I found ridiculous about the Federation: The selection of their leaders is based around a popularity contest. Qualification is secondary to popularity, from how I can see it. It just so happens that competition for the top spot is so intense that the most popular candidates and their regime have to have some level of competency by default.

Also, the common Gallente, NOT Federate, mind, just the Gallente, are such bloody busybodies who won't stop trying to turn me around to the Gallente way. It is rather annoying.

Now on to the good points: Because the culture and the politics of the Federation is based around a giant popularity contest, things change. Alot. Frequently. Today's trend is passe tomorrow. It is impossible to find the Federation dull. Also, considering the Federation's distaste for forcing their culture down our throats (though they will still try to convince immigrants and visitors that their way is superior. Mention democracy or just show a passing interest and they will not stop talking about it until a newborn Fedo reaches end of lifespan), other cultures tend to have a chance to linger around and eventually merge with the other currently-being-assimilated-cultures, resulting in something unique. Happens every time.

I won't forgive ice-cream on Brutor Flatbread baked in a microwave oven. Who thought this is a good idea?

Also, considering the emphasis on individuality amongst the Gallente (key word: Gallente, not Federation), it results in a self-centered but very self-expressive culture. The result is nobody is afraid to show off their stuff. Just a short trek through any of their cities, including their space stations, and one can easily be eyes-deep in modern art. It's pretty overwhelming sometimes. Ideas are expressed just as frequently and they tend to receive a following for a while, before the average Gallente gets bored of it and look for some other novelty. However, sadly, I found that their ideas tend to be very, very half baked. It's like they don't have discipline enough to finish whatever it was they started.

I still recall this one time I stumbled upon a so-called 'Cult of the Machine God' and found that there are about seventeen holes in their doctrine. Looking at that makes even a Matari appreciate the Amarrian scriptures.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#73 - 2016-09-02 02:23:30 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
"...not noticing that Gallente really means Garoun...."
See, I told you he bears watching.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#74 - 2016-09-02 02:34:39 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.


And I want to bring back my point that the Federation doesn't exactly destroy differing opinions - I wanna call back to that post where I likened it to noise. It's like a big popularity contest here all the time and while you might not get destroyed in a contest it certainly sucks and feels bad to lose and be excluded. And the Garoun always win, because they're the ones who started the stupid contest.

And maybe after you lose so many times you stop trying to play. Maybe sometimes you give up so much you just imitate the winner.


And maybe that's how it's supposed to work. What if a culture decided it didn't want to play the game, but it also didn't want to give up?

Now what if I told you that I'm not talking hypothetically.

Although, in the name of equal time, I should point out that most people of the Federation I speak to describe it as probably the biggest mistake that the Federation has ever made. The time they fell short of their own ideals badly enough to frighten themselves.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#75 - 2016-09-02 03:07:03 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


And maybe that's how it's supposed to work. What if a culture decided it didn't want to play the game, but it also didn't want to give up?

Now what if I told you that I'm not talking hypothetically.

Although, in the name of equal time, I should point out that most people of the Federation I speak to describe it as probably the biggest mistake that the Federation has ever made. The time they fell short of their own ideals badly enough to frighten themselves.


I don't know enough about the wars and their causes to really contribute anything there. It's hard to get unbiased sources on any side so far after the fact.

But I'd really appreciate it if we could try to focus on comparing the Empire and the Federation. I like your thoughts. I'd like to hear them more on the topic of the thread, which is a topic I'm better informed about and better able to respond to.
Felise Selunix
Keyholder Investment Group
#76 - 2016-09-02 03:29:04 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Now on to the good points: Because the culture and the politics of the Federation is based around a giant popularity contest, things change. Alot. Frequently. Today's trend is passe tomorrow. It is impossible to find the Federation dull. Also, considering the Federation's distaste for forcing their culture down our throats (though they will still try to convince immigrants and visitors that their way is superior. Mention democracy or just show a passing interest and they will not stop talking about it until a newborn Fedo reaches end of lifespan), other cultures tend to have a chance to linger around and eventually merge with the other currently-being-assimilated-cultures, resulting in something unique. Happens every time.

I won't forgive ice-cream on Brutor Flatbread baked in a microwave oven. Who thought this is a good idea?

Also, considering the emphasis on individuality amongst the Gallente (key word: Gallente, not Federation), it results in a self-centered but very self-expressive culture. The result is nobody is afraid to show off their stuff. Just a short trek through any of their cities, including their space stations, and one can easily be eyes-deep in modern art. It's pretty overwhelming sometimes. Ideas are expressed just as frequently and they tend to receive a following for a while, before the average Gallente gets bored of it and look for some other novelty. However, sadly, I found that their ideas tend to be very, very half baked. It's like they don't have discipline enough to finish whatever it was they started.

I still recall this one time I stumbled upon a so-called 'Cult of the Machine God' and found that there are about seventeen holes in their doctrine. Looking at that makes even a Matari appreciate the Amarrian scriptures.


My aunt (Head of Table of all people!) and her kids are a lot like this and I think it's funny. While most of us could give a flying nanite about political grandstanding, but they're all about 'improvements' that the Republic can make that sound suspiciously like Gallente 2.0. A bunch of political scientists, that lot. And talk about expressive, they've all got ideas and of course, you just have to see this latest song that someone's daughter recorded, or some performance art piece that someone put together. I spent a trippy two hours watching a young cousin of mine and her classmates do a play about the founding of Caille only representing all of the main characters as interdependent parts of an imicus. I mean to say that she got a grade for this. Overall though, I love it. There's a certain willful glittery sensory overload about the Gallentean way that is so earnest that it's utterly charming. I don't mind a visit.

Brutor Flatbread in a microwave though, that's an abomination. They better stay away from my mom's cornthyr bread!
Xun Yu
Sanxing
#77 - 2016-09-02 07:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Xun Yu
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Tressith Sefira wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
William Danneskjold wrote:
You would agree with me, too, then, when I say that the Federation participates in a particularly insidious and effective cultural imperialism?


It is far less effective than it once was - perhaps because it became too obvious. Many cultures are now lost in it's coils, not noticing that Gallente really means Garoun until they were so enmeshed that they couldn't escape - I refer to the Mannar, the Jin-Mei and many others.

The Intaki, though, I think possess the strength to regain their independence. And the Caldari, of course, are the Caldari.


I think my Jin-Mei friend and leader Sang Do Xun'd be quite amused with your claim on the Jin-Mei's behalf that they're being culturally dominated by the Federation and the core Federation worlds.


Actually, having said that, it's good that the Federation is allowing the Jin-Mei to retain their caste system rather than just steamrollering it. The Jin-Mei were possibly a bad example although, of course, your average Garoun Senator won't have met many Jin-Mei until recently.

Let's see how things play out.


Jueshi Tuulinen,

Nushi Sefira is quite correct that I fundamentally disagree with the assessment that the Jin-Mei people are so enmeshed, as you put it, into the Federation that we are no longer culturally distinct or able to "escape".

Our protections in the Federal Charter and Federal Constitution are well known, and the seven titles of the Federal Constitution are not so restrictive or oppressive as to remove cultural distinctiveness. Indeed there are several articles relating to territorial freedoms and self-government which allow for great latitude to preserve laws, government, and socio-cultural aspects.

Further the notion that the Jin-Mei do not possess the influence to regain our independence, if we so desired which allow me to assure you we have no interest in, is to fundamentally misapprehend our people. Unlike the Mannar or the Caldari themselves the Gallente found us a fully fledged space-faring people who had colonised our home system, we required minimal effort to be brought to full technological parity. Further our agricultural industry allows us enormous economic and political influence within the Federation, I direct you to recent court decisions against large interstellar conglomerates and corporations that found in favour of the Jin-Mei people - and our traditions. I am confident that should my people desire to break apart from the Federation we'd be fully capable, however I would certainly exercise all my influence and provide the strongest advice against doing so as a Sang Do.

Ultimately the Jin-Mei people have no interest in independence, broadly speaking there are dissenting voices of course but they are in the minority, our culture is protected in the Federation and we continue to prosper within it. For the depth of our feeling regarding the Federation one need only look to the fact that we have renamed our home, star system, and so forth; you could also look at my people's voting habit which traditionally places them in the Hawk group.

While we are only 5% of the Federal population Diyichu was 184 years ago now, and our service in the Federal Navy, close relationship and employment with many Federal institutions and companies including Garoun Investment Bank, would hardly relegate us to being a rare encounter in the Federation.

To return however to the thrust of the matter, has our culture changed since encountering the Gallente? Absolutely. Does it continue to change? Of course. Anything that is founded to last forever will always have change as its constant, it is the only fundamental. As long as we do not forget from where we come, and that we remember and retain the virtuous and harmonious parts, while improving and develop forward this is all that matters.

I look forward to being able to see, and in my small way such as my little knowledge allows to help my people, continue to grow and prosper in the Federation to which we have given body and soul to defend, develop, and maintain.

Sang Do Xun Yu
Taishou of Sanxing
Vice-Chair of the Villore Assembly

Sanxing - 'Three Stars' - Committed to the Jin-Mei and the Federation

Find us on your Neocom on the router: Sanxing
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#78 - 2016-09-04 18:42:47 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Good afternoon.

I have a profound and abiding love for the Empire, despite her sins, as I do for our Federal Union.



Weren't you born in the Federation? Where and when did you find a love for the Empire? What created that love?
Tressith Sefira
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#79 - 2016-09-04 19:36:06 UTC
Xun Yu wrote:

Further the notion that the Jin-Mei do not possess the influence to regain our independence, if we so desired which allow me to assure you we have no interest in, is to fundamentally misapprehend our people. Unlike the Mannar or the Caldari themselves the Gallente found us a fully fledged space-faring people who had colonised our home system, we required minimal effort to be brought to full technological parity. Further our agricultural industry allows us enormous economic and political influence within the Federation, I direct you to recent court decisions against large interstellar conglomerates and corporations that found in favour of the Jin-Mei people - and our traditions. I am confident that should my people desire to break apart from the Federation we'd be fully capable, however I would certainly exercise all my influence and provide the strongest advice against doing so as a Sang Do.

Ultimately the Jin-Mei people have no interest in independence, broadly speaking there are dissenting voices of course but they are in the minority, our culture is protected in the Federation and we continue to prosper within it. For the depth of our feeling regarding the Federation one need only look to the fact that we have renamed our home, star system, and so forth; you could also look at my people's voting habit which traditionally places them in the Hawk group.

While we are only 5% of the Federal population Diyichu was 184 years ago now, and our service in the Federal Navy, close relationship and employment with many Federal institutions and companies including Garoun Investment Bank, would hardly relegate us to being a rare encounter in the Federation.

To return however to the thrust of the matter, has our culture changed since encountering the Gallente? Absolutely. Does it continue to change? Of course. Anything that is founded to last forever will always have change as its constant, it is the only fundamental. As long as we do not forget from where we come, and that we remember and retain the virtuous and harmonious parts, while improving and develop forward this is all that matters.


I kinda get the impression that there's some real mutual respect and friendship between our peoples in regards to that. Maybe like the Amarr and Khanids. Are there parallels there?
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#80 - 2016-09-05 00:18:29 UTC
Tressith Sefira wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Good afternoon.

I have a profound and abiding love for the Empire, despite her sins, as I do for our Federal Union.



Weren't you born in the Federation? Where and when did you find a love for the Empire? What created that love?

Ms. I have no objection to your question, and would be happy to discuss it with you… in another place.

I will say that I have a direct familial connection with the Empire and that there are significant Amarr populations in certain portions of the Federation, including where I was born.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."