These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6521 - 2016-09-01 07:42:32 UTC
it's more a fail on the target's part tbh -- I think the only reason we sometimes catch something in sov null is because the target is AFK. Sadly, that is- but true.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6522 - 2016-09-01 10:00:16 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You don't even need to be pre aligned. Players appear in local before they load grid. They'd have to jump gate and know exactly where to warp to stand a chance of catching a battle ship.

People caught in null are not paying attention or are jumped by a cloaker who's already been in the system a while.

When it comes to playing together in null, things don't have to be perfect but the players who put in more effort and skill should survive more and those that play alone should die more. Nothing says you are entitled to survive in null when you play alone.


Then you are fail, because we caught people, just because you are lazy and lack knowledge and ability you want AFK cloaky camping to cover for your weakness.


No i just told you i don't afk cloak. The people you caught are the ones that failed. They didn't pre-align, they didn't notice local, the didn't rat in a group, they didn't have allies nearby, they were close to the anom, they didn't mjd etc..

They failed on a lot of levels, because they have to to be caught.

The exception being people who rat whilst an afk cloakers is in system, but these people tend to rat in something cheap and/or in groups.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6523 - 2016-09-01 13:46:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Projecting again, it is a simple fact that in many alliances some TZ's are weaker than others, something which has been detailed in this thread. I am merely calling for flagging AFK people due to it being lazy play, if you want to project your issues on others that is your problem not mine.

For a start to say that you couldn't catch anyone is rather pathetic, me and my corpies were killing lots of mission runners in Stain and you were saying it was 100% safe, rubbish...


I'm 95% sure you're trolling now.

I'm projecting when the issue here is you calling for nerfs because you can't join a competent corp? Come on man.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6524 - 2016-09-01 14:20:10 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Projecting again, it is a simple fact that in many alliances some TZ's are weaker than others, something which has been detailed in this thread. I am merely calling for flagging AFK people due to it being lazy play, if you want to project your issues on others that is your problem not mine.

For a start to say that you couldn't catch anyone is rather pathetic, me and my corpies were killing lots of mission runners in Stain and you were saying it was 100% safe, rubbish...


I'm 95% sure you're trolling now.

I'm projecting when the issue here is you calling for nerfs because you can't join a competent corp? Come on man.


I think you are trolling yourself, remember that my only issue is the AFK part...Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6525 - 2016-09-01 14:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Dracvlad wrote:
I think you are trolling yourself, remember that my only issue is the AFK part...Big smile


And for the 13th time, no one AFK can hurt you or earn ISK. There is no problem.

You literally just admitted you have an issue with it because you are in alliances that are bad enough that they can't be organized in null...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6526 - 2016-09-01 14:31:26 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think you are trolling yourself, remember that my only issue is the AFK part...Big smile


And for the 13th time, no one AFK can hurt you or earn ISK. There is no problem.

You literally just admitted you have an issue with it because you are in alliances that are bad enough that they can't be organized in null...


You can say that bullshite 500 times it won't make any difference, because it is wrong, there is a problem.

I have not admitted anything, the objective I have is reducing the impact that AFK players who keep logged in all the time to do area denial when they are asleep or at work. Now they would hardly do it if there was no problem to the people they were doing it to would they... Roll

But you keep trolling yourself and making yourself look idiotic, like saying 100% percent safety which is just not true, or going on about fail alliances and other such clap trap. The issue is purely and simply AFK play to do area denial and how to reduce that destructive behaviour so it only has an impact if they are ATK.

Keep trolling yourself, I find it amusing...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6527 - 2016-09-01 14:36:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
You can say that bullshite 500 times it won't make any difference, because it is wrong, there is a problem.

I have not admitted anything, the objective I have is reducing the impact that AFK players who keep logged in all the time to do area denial when they are asleep or at work. Now they would hardly do it if there was no problem to the people they were doing it to would they... Roll

But you keep trolling yourself and making yourself look idiotic, like saying 100% percent safety which is just not true, or going on about fail alliances and other such clap trap. The issue is purely and simply AFK play to do area denial and how to reduce that destructive behaviour so it only has an impact if they are ATK.

Keep trolling yourself, I find it amusing...


AFK cloaked players only have an impact on the extremely risk averse, which have no place outside of HS.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify flying with risk averse people though
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6528 - 2016-09-01 14:42:10 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
You can say that bullshite 500 times it won't make any difference, because it is wrong, there is a problem.

I have not admitted anything, the objective I have is reducing the impact that AFK players who keep logged in all the time to do area denial when they are asleep or at work. Now they would hardly do it if there was no problem to the people they were doing it to would they... Roll

But you keep trolling yourself and making yourself look idiotic, like saying 100% percent safety which is just not true, or going on about fail alliances and other such clap trap. The issue is purely and simply AFK play to do area denial and how to reduce that destructive behaviour so it only has an impact if they are ATK.

Keep trolling yourself, I find it amusing...


AFK cloaked players only have an impact on the extremely risk averse, which have no place outside of HS.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify flying with risk averse people though


Roll AFK play like this is not acceptable, my solution deals with it without destroying cloaks and requires investment in time, effort and ISK.

The risk averse people are normally the AFK cloaky campers in my experience.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6529 - 2016-09-01 14:54:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Roll AFK play like this is not acceptable, my solution deals with it without destroying cloaks and requires investment in time, effort and ISK.

The risk averse people are normally the AFK cloaky campers in my experience.


Why isn't it acceptable? It doesn't hurt anyone, and poses no risk to anyone.

How, exactly is risking going solo into deep hostile territory risk averse? What mental gymnastics have you done to come to that conclusion?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6530 - 2016-09-01 15:00:05 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Roll AFK play like this is not acceptable, my solution deals with it without destroying cloaks and requires investment in time, effort and ISK.

The risk averse people are normally the AFK cloaky campers in my experience.


Why isn't it acceptable? It doesn't hurt anyone, and poses no risk to anyone.

How, exactly is risking going solo into deep hostile territory risk averse? What mental gymnastics have you done to come to that conclusion?


Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6531 - 2016-09-01 15:01:49 UTC
Well to be fair ...

it is risk averse. Cloaky/nullified T3, covert cyno slapped on, ... I understand both sides of the argument here, but let's not start pretending it's elite PvP. It's a 15 to 1 gank hiding in an unprobable safespot for as long as you like.

That said, please do carry on gentlemen.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6532 - 2016-09-01 17:49:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You don't even need to be pre aligned. Players appear in local before they load grid. They'd have to jump gate and know exactly where to warp to stand a chance of catching a battle ship.

People caught in null are not paying attention or are jumped by a cloaker who's already been in the system a while.

When it comes to playing together in null, things don't have to be perfect but the players who put in more effort and skill should survive more and those that play alone should die more. Nothing says you are entitled to survive in null when you play alone.


Then you are fail, because we caught people, just because you are lazy and lack knowledge and ability you want AFK cloaky camping to cover for your weakness.


No i just told you i don't afk cloak. The people you caught are the ones that failed. They didn't pre-align, they didn't notice local, the didn't rat in a group, they didn't have allies nearby, they were close to the anom, they didn't mjd etc..

They failed on a lot of levels, because they have to to be caught.

The exception being people who rat whilst an afk cloakers is in system, but these people tend to rat in something cheap and/or in groups.


No, no, no. See with this narrative Dracvlad can't claim to be awesome or something. Culling the "weak" from the herd is not awesome. It is what CODE. and other gankers do with regards to dumb freighter pilots....and we all know Dracvlad shares nothing in common with those people.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6533 - 2016-09-01 17:53:39 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Well to be fair ...

it is risk averse. Cloaky/nullified T3, covert cyno slapped on, ... I understand both sides of the argument here, but let's not start pretending it's elite PvP. It's a 15 to 1 gank hiding in an unprobable safespot for as long as you like.

That said, please do carry on gentlemen.


I understand, but the person risking the cloaky T3 plus a blops is risking significantly more on field than that one ratter they caught. And any group with a semblance of organization can counter drop for some very nice kills.

That's the heart of my issue, people in null who refuse to organize themselves for defense and counter attacks.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6534 - 2016-09-01 18:41:36 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think you are trolling yourself, remember that my only issue is the AFK part...Big smile


And for the 13th time, no one AFK can hurt you or earn ISK. There is no problem.

You literally just admitted you have an issue with it because you are in alliances that are bad enough that they can't be organized in null...


You can say that bullshite 500 times it won't make any difference, because it is wrong, there is a problem.

I have not admitted anything, the objective I have is reducing the impact that AFK players who keep logged in all the time to do area denial when they are asleep or at work. Now they would hardly do it if there was no problem to the people they were doing it to would they... Roll

But you keep trolling yourself and making yourself look idiotic, like saying 100% percent safety which is just not true, or going on about fail alliances and other such clap trap. The issue is purely and simply AFK play to do area denial and how to reduce that destructive behaviour so it only has an impact if they are ATK.

Keep trolling yourself, I find it amusing...


Nobody is saying: 100% safety.

What they are saying is: You will have 100% safety if you do [insert list of things you should do].

Now, you can say that even doing that laundry list does not make you 100% safe. Fine, but it makes you very, very, very safe. Shall we say 99.85% safe?

Now and AFK cloaking pilot in system changes that. Now your degree of safety drops considerably because now you have to try and discern if he is really AFK or ATK waiting for you to start ratting/mining/etc. to get a kill. However, I do not believe this is insurmountable as I have noted in the past.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6535 - 2016-09-02 12:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
You don't even need to be pre aligned. Players appear in local before they load grid. They'd have to jump gate and know exactly where to warp to stand a chance of catching a battle ship.

People caught in null are not paying attention or are jumped by a cloaker who's already been in the system a while.

When it comes to playing together in null, things don't have to be perfect but the players who put in more effort and skill should survive more and those that play alone should die more. Nothing says you are entitled to survive in null when you play alone.


Then you are fail, because we caught people, just because you are lazy and lack knowledge and ability you want AFK cloaky camping to cover for your weakness.


No i just told you i don't afk cloak. The people you caught are the ones that failed. They didn't pre-align, they didn't notice local, the didn't rat in a group, they didn't have allies nearby, they were close to the anom, they didn't mjd etc..

They failed on a lot of levels, because they have to to be caught.

The exception being people who rat whilst an afk cloakers is in system, but these people tend to rat in something cheap and/or in groups.


No, no, no. See with this narrative Dracvlad can't claim to be awesome or something. Culling the "weak" from the herd is not awesome. It is what CODE. and other gankers do with regards to dumb freighter pilots....and we all know Dracvlad shares nothing in common with those people.


I never claimed to be awesome, I just play to be difficult to kil, however I have ratted in 0.0 with people in system because I had the intel on them and knew that at that point in time they had no chance to kill me with what they had and what I and my friends had. The suggestion about the AFK flag is to enable me to make that assessment following on from the removal of the watch list and the addition of skill injectors. Both highly important reductions in terms of my ability in assessing risk and knowing when I should start trying to bait them.

I support the removal of watch lists, and I support the Skill injectors, but like anything it has impacts on game balance in terms of the increased impact of AFK cloaky camping.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6536 - 2016-09-02 18:15:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


I never claimed to be awesome, I just play to be difficult to kil, however I have ratted in 0.0 with people in system because I had the intel on them and knew that at that point in time they had no chance to kill me with what they had and what I and my friends had. The suggestion about the AFK flag is to enable me to make that assessment following on from the removal of the watch list and the addition of skill injectors. Both highly important reductions in terms of my ability in assessing risk and knowing when I should start trying to bait them.

I support the removal of watch lists, and I support the Skill injectors, but like anything it has impacts on game balance in terms of the increased impact of AFK cloaky camping.


Getting something with no effort, or even one time effort is not good. Imagine setting up a POS to mine moon goo an never having to fuel it or even have to go collect the moon goo. Yes there is effort, the one time effort to set up the POS and miner.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6537 - 2016-09-02 20:48:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


I never claimed to be awesome, I just play to be difficult to kil, however I have ratted in 0.0 with people in system because I had the intel on them and knew that at that point in time they had no chance to kill me with what they had and what I and my friends had. The suggestion about the AFK flag is to enable me to make that assessment following on from the removal of the watch list and the addition of skill injectors. Both highly important reductions in terms of my ability in assessing risk and knowing when I should start trying to bait them.

I support the removal of watch lists, and I support the Skill injectors, but like anything it has impacts on game balance in terms of the increased impact of AFK cloaky camping.


Getting something with no effort, or even one time effort is not good. Imagine setting up a POS to mine moon goo an never having to fuel it or even have to go collect the moon goo. Yes there is effort, the one time effort to set up the POS and miner.


It is called having to defend it, rather like you have to do with Sov, but I forget, you never really defended your sov, the Goons did it for you...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Nofearion
Destructive Brothers
Fraternity.
#6538 - 2016-09-05 01:12:59 UTC
Everyone gets caught up in the details and forgets the real imbalance.
Active or not, once cloaked in a system Hi or null, there is no current game mechanic to counter Cloaked ships.
by whatever with agis sov and many Many other changes and more to come, the "good" of cloaking is not really being used except a few people, who ,to quote an old adversary, want to cause tears and gank people in Easey theme park mode. Those are also the ones why Cry the loudest that we cant change because then they may have to really work for a kill instead of waiting on somone to make a mistake.
The best defence against ADM is not cloaky camping its Small gangs and blops.
Watching local, being on coms, and aligned 100% of the time without distraction will never happen 100% of the time.
That includes Cloaked afk scouts looking for anyone new to pass into the system next door.
Yes I am stating that Cloaky camping is also use by those who are prey to watch out for you the hunter.
The only 100% item in this discussion is the "fact" yes I use it here. That once in system and cloaked there is no way to interact with that pilot until that cloaked pilot chooses. It is infact safer than being in a station, pos, outpost.
I think a majority of us only desire the satisfaction of blowing holes in the ship of a cloaked pilot that thought it would be a good idea to log in and then go clubbing.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6539 - 2016-09-05 20:32:13 UTC
Its harder to kill someone in a station than it is to find someone cloaked.

Call it imbalanced if you want, but without it you rat risk free and that's even worse than what we have now.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6540 - 2016-09-05 20:41:48 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Its harder to kill someone in a station than it is to find someone cloaked.

Call it imbalanced if you want, but without it you rat risk free and that's even worse than what we have now.


Well if you are talking about 0.0 unless it is NPC space you can attack the station using an entosis or blast the services, and if it is a citadel you can blast. Whats more they are on the overview and citadels can be probed down, so you are wrong. People who resort to cloaky AFK camping could force a fight if they wanted to, but no its just lazy play that is all they can do...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp