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Dev blog: Command Bursts and the New World of Fleet Boosting

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#841 - 2016-08-31 19:23:32 UTC
so now you need more orcas so there is MORE reason to train the skills as corps no longer just need one pilot why is that a bad thing

i can think of a lot of players who trained orca and were never able to use it because some one just left there orca alt on all day with an open fleet even w/o a pos

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#842 - 2016-08-31 19:46:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so now you need more orcas so there is MORE reason to train the skills as corps no longer just need one pilot why is that a bad thing

i can think of a lot of players who trained orca and were never able to use it because some one just left there orca alt on all day with an open fleet even w/o a pos



I don't think your understanding the issue:

Firstly CCP is doing away with the orca alt on all day afk thing - the links run on fuel/ammo now so there will be limited time before having to refill. Secondly you have to be on grid so people will be much less inclned to leave an orca sitting in a belt - even in high sec all day.

I think the main issue for most miners is that there are a limited number of rocks in any belt, now we currently can have a fleet in a system with a booster mining over several belts. Anyone who has mined and has experience in doing it knows that once you get 3 or 4 skiff/mack/hulks in any single belt that you have reached a maximum. So we often split up to different belts. This change basically means that we now need to have multiple boosters for the same number of miners. And orcas are not cheap they are 700-800 million isk plus fittings and require significant investment of skills. This is a large barrier to new corps, new bros wanting to learn and grow. It effectively KILLs amazing groups like CASMA from providing a good new player experience.

I am hopefull that CCP can find a way to tie the on grid to the belt/anom beacon and give the booster the system wide or at least an AU wide boost. It still forces the booster on field which is what the main issue that most people have, and I fully agree, the days of sitting in a POS behind a shield and fleet boosting are over. Or parking at a station and boosting.

I have already in this thread said I agree with on grid, I agree with some of the simplification, and I am 100% in agreement of the use of fuel/ammo to run the boosts - its great for indy folks and miners since they will build/provide all of this new material. (Don;t forget CCP to add this to cloaks! - cloaking should use a tremendous amount of power and yes fuel)

So basically im good with these changes - it is the range issue that I am having the most diffculty with as there are belts 100s of KMs across and only the Rorq comes close to that range, and it prevents you from mining in a system, it localizes everything to one belt which for anyone who has played the game knows is just not the way it works.

I have also seen a suggestion that the hidden anoms come back, I have never liked that change to begin with I think scanning down ore sites should never have been removed, it should always be required, particularly with these changes. CCP is going to destroy wormhole mining with this change and I have never liked that high sec anoms just show up - make people actually have to work for it.

Cheers
~R~
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#843 - 2016-08-31 19:48:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so now you need more orcas so there is MORE reason to train the skills as corps no longer just need one pilot why is that a bad thing

i can think of a lot of players who trained orca and were never able to use it because some one just left there orca alt on all day with an open fleet even w/o a pos


And now I cannot play as I have designed my 7 PAID accounts to play. So I need to kiss CCP's *ss and be happy? Oh, I get it, you want me to ADD accounts to continue to play as I always have because 7 accounts is not enough and I need to pay for more. Don't think so, be leaving permanently before that happens.

Man, you are a tool...
Lugh Crow-Slave
#844 - 2016-08-31 19:48:56 UTC
the links run on scripts not ammo

as for orcas costing to much to field more than one use the porpus for aux belts than orca(s) for your main group

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lugh Crow-Slave
#845 - 2016-08-31 19:50:23 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so now you need more orcas so there is MORE reason to train the skills as corps no longer just need one pilot why is that a bad thing

i can think of a lot of players who trained orca and were never able to use it because some one just left there orca alt on all day with an open fleet even w/o a pos


And now I cannot play as I have designed my 7 PAID accounts to play. So I need to kiss CCP's *ss and be happy? Oh, I get it, you want me to ADD accounts to continue to play as I always have because 7 accounts is not enough and I need to pay for more. Don't think so, be leaving permanently before that happens.

Man, you are a tool...




... what?

if this is hurting multi boxing then yeah thats not a bad thing

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#846 - 2016-08-31 20:06:22 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the links run on scripts not ammo

as for orcas costing to much to field more than one use the porpus for aux belts than orca(s) for your main group




From the Dev Blog

Command Bursts are high-slot modules that can be fit on the same classes of ships that can currently fit Warfare Links. There will be five types of Command Burst modules at launch, one for each of the existing fleet boost groups: Armor, Shield (formerly known as Siege), Information, Skirmish, and Mining.

These modules must be loaded with ammo in order to activate, and the ammo choices determine which bonus the module will provide to nearby fleetmates. Ammo can be swapped in the field to change bonuses as the situation changes, although a reload time of between thirty seconds and one minute means that choosing the right time to swap bonuses is important.

The ammunition for Command Bursts will be compact, inexpensive and manufactured by players primarily from ice product raw materials. We are planning for very large ammo capacities on the Burst modules themselves, so boosting characters will not need to reload often unless they are changing boost types. Command Burst modules will also require a moderate amount of capacitor to activate.

I would suggest you re read the dev blog for a better understanding of the mechanic they are implementing.
Johnno Ormand
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#847 - 2016-08-31 21:06:44 UTC
If these changes go ahead I won't be boosting any longer. I have 3 accounts 1 for PvP and he 2 others are boost/mining but will not put an orca or rorq in a belt. These changes will effectively kill mining for small players like myself. CCp you will loose 2 subscriptions from me over this.
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
#848 - 2016-08-31 21:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Cemenotar
Johnno Ormand wrote:
If these changes go ahead I won't be boosting any longer. I have 3 accounts 1 for PvP and he 2 others are boost/mining but will not put an orca or rorq in a belt. These changes will effectively kill mining for small players like myself. CCp you will loose 2 subscriptions from me over this.



and you are forgetting brand new shiny industrial command with t1 battlecruiser pricetag that will come to the game on same day

you won't have to deploy orca on belt if you can afford it - porpoise is for those people

as a player who mostly does mining "for a living" I do not feel anyhow like my mining is beng "killed" by a change

EDIT: PS. and within all definition I fit into "small miner"
Pandora Deninard
Bastards at the Hole
#849 - 2016-08-31 22:57:43 UTC

HOLY WALL OF TEXT BATMANShockedShockedShockedShocked

JoAnnaBeth wrote:
Another thing really not needed but used to correct your gaming style,which is not approved by CCP,cause they didnt make a mining game,they made it to blow up ships,no one really cares where the ships are 'grown' at.....is it time for Tom to be avaiable for purchase,cause whats 2 hours......at this point , really i loved playing EVE, i gave ten years just to get back what. ok yes getting a venture was the best thing since sliced bread... i can give you a few more months just in case you got a bright idea,however ,given your track record (CCP) thats doubtful ,everyone wants you to actually create something useful,you have made updates and that is good to most players.
Personally,i would take these last four months of the year and strip everything ,take local away and start brand new and see what they gripe about.your bringing in all this stuff and really like for me ,it all is useless,its like handing ppl broken crutches and telling them to play football and if your by yourself,what are boosts for again....i dont play this game to make friends ,the ones i do have came about the hard and enjoyable way of getting blown up and laughing about it in local.when i started playing the thought of an alt was something those 'fancy' people did so they could sit in station and talk smack all day in local.I took what i could with a grain of salt and drove on,I learned to mine,to build a ship,to shoot legal bad guys for fun as mining got stale on the second rotation,mission for standings so i can get me a JumpClone in high sec.high sec wars were really high lite of high sec.Low sec has always had issues and null sec is where to go to get lost .The game is not the same as it was,improvements are to be expected ,All this new "Content" will do what ? Well ,its not been for the new player experience,which really ends hours later maybe when you found out your suppose to be training a skill all the time but shooting those newbi npc rats was suppose to be doing you some good but really you should have doing those tutorial things which are showing you how to play the game.you start picking up that there people everywhere so lets goooo,umm yeah you decide to look at the stargate a bit,soak up its awesomeness,now you thought you were getting content looking at that gate,no,larry curly and moe,pull up to you lock you up,and your screen goes white and there your corpse is in space with a message saying your got a kill right you can "Act" on and here is 5,000 isk .Time to undock and find another ship. maybe we will try a few more of those tutorials .Rinse repeat,this process should,could,would lead to these great and beautiful things you speak of, other than giving new players somewhat better starting skills than what a number of us have had , these things your bringing to table seem to not let you do as much as a 'group' so what is the drive to get these things , the venture we use to solo mine wouldnt have boosts, are you like reducing range of modules so instead of a normal 10km (roughly) it would be reduced to 5km unless you was in a fleet? these new stuff your bringing ,sorry, revamping, or is it nerfing, really isnt practical to use,to that solo player your just jacking up everyone else's game,making them sweeter for the kill. As for fleets,removing the heirarchy's importance just doesnt seem logical,you want people to understand the importance of a fleet,of a squad commander,and etc to include that of a booster almost sounds like knowing what your fleets about, instead your giving them a Lets be Ignorant Card to understanding the game .Your talking in a good direction just walking the other way. Command bursts,as if you havent used Command enough, uses a type of ammo,script,or light switch or button on our HUD to provide boosts we click this and a sphere of influence provides this boost for a limited time,i think thats the general idea, based around the ship boosting,cause we really want to get out of our ship to switch to a mining ship to be active for the duration of the boosts.I mean why do this ,you want to steal our ships?or you going to add pod locks as well,lol,ok i dont have the common sense to understand that as a good idea. You give us the rope we will hang ourselves right. I thought the introduction of this new stuff would bring tactices into play ,some claimed it did but i got confused ,dragging people off groups to expose them isnt even possible in high sec ,wait for the "bump" unless the person is going after you and you scram and web them down ,now low sec and null different story,kidnap ,scram,and web them down,general tactics wont change,we all can now look at the pretty rays beaming from the ship and figure something other than "Target is in a Ship,Type,looks like the rainbow is loving on him" Im glad you got all these high def graphics,this was as bad as the icon change up recently.The sounds alone are enough to put someone to sleep really,the beat or pitch or something just makes me yawn.....reminds me of the adults in the peanut cartoons. Devs,Why not just announce you want everybody in an orca or this rouqal thingie that is suppose to be helpful and mining in belts cause "you" dont have enough content. dont be changing something because you cant find something to blow up or cant find someone to blow up because now we have to mine MORE to meet quotas for ships ,etc. Fix stuff,stop breaking it,stop trading stuff in for more Broke stuff.If your going to do stuff like this,just clean slate everyone to 0 sp at least we wont worry of wasting skills of this stuff .


Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#850 - 2016-08-31 23:09:49 UTC
Best dev blog ever.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Boughi
The Knights Templars
Memento Moriendo
#851 - 2016-08-31 23:24:36 UTC
I am a little confused. If you are talking about command boosting why should my LvL 5 nighthawk pilot with mind link be different to my Lvl 5 orca/rorqual pilot. I believe with the command bonuses/boosting should be done with the same modules. I hope that the command module for the mining will not prevent the ships from moving (ie. industrial core for rorqual).
What are you planning for the industrial core now that the compression arrays have taken over that function?
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#852 - 2016-08-31 23:53:24 UTC
Zifrian wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Funny how miners think my sieged Dread can hit 24 AU from within the POS shield where I sit AFK blapping stuff.

Funny how non-miners engaged in combat activities with a siege dred in a combat fleet can think there is any comparison to a rorqual in a belt with some mining barges.


Let me get this straight.

You have a number of pilots already in your fleet benefiting from your boosts. These pilots are more than capable of docking in a citadel and reshipping before the hostiles even get in system, let alone on grid. You are sitting in a ship with north of three million EHP and passive shield recharge to the tune of 800 dps. You have an invulnerability button that lasts longer than what is left on your siege cycle, a jump drive to bail when tackle is cleared and bonused capital remote reps and drones to support your defense fleet that is literally around you the entire time.

But hey, lets link more killmails of terribly fit and or unrigged rorquals killed by a couple of cruisers to show just how unreasonable it is to put them in the field. More chance to notice an important point on zkill. Scroll to the bottom.

"waaah I'm going to lose 3bil"

Type Cost Payout
None 0.00 904,271,769.00
Platinum 678,203,827.00 2,260,679,424.00

There are currently rorqs on sale for 2bil flat. Three billion isk is a fully fitted and platinum insured Rorqual. Which is a net loss of 750mil. Or are you all referring to the compressed ore in cargo that will be lost because you are choosing not to haul it / warp it out in the ore bays of the barges on the way to reship?

What you are really trying to say is you want to keep mining with your 10 alts and fleet warp everything to perfect safety. You still can! You will just have to use less than perfect boosts to retain perfect safety. Reward for effort and risk.

The real discussion here is a question of "is putting the rorq in the belt enough of a bonus over the safe option to justify the risk?" Then a further discussion of whether sieging is enough of a boost over not sieging to justify that risk.

Unfortunately, that is not a discussion we can have without the concrete specifics of the rorqual changes themselves. So lets focus on "are the safe options that will be generally used good enough for general mineral supply in the game".

What the rorqual itself will be capable of doing in addition to boosts will sway the debate dramatically for smaller fleets. And by fleets, I mean actual groups of people. Not you and your group of miner alts that you skill extract any and all additional training from every month. Those individuals will not be fielding a sieged Rorqual. That's kind of the entire point.
Khelar Udan
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#853 - 2016-09-01 00:00:38 UTC
Girdinus wrote:
Janet McJewstein wrote:

How many people will unsub their booster accounts?

I have an account just to run boosts. Once this new patch hits, I'm pulling the SP from that toon and closing the account. How many other people are in the same boat?


I dedicated an account with years of training so i can provide boost for my PVE and PVP activities because of the passive skill.

Some newbies unwilling to commit to such investment whines and CCP nerfs fleet boosting?

I do not know how such changes are going to affect others but i am definitely going to extract my SP and unsub my booster account when such changes are applied because I did not train my character for this kind of gameplay.
(Also, refund my SP please)

Such changes are not only killing PVE and it's also killing solo and small gang PVP.

Finally, I would hope CCP to consider are such changes going to increase or decrease subscriptions?

Because we as players, would love to see more subscriptions in Eve Online so we can have a larger community and more content. Personally, i think AFK cloaking is a bigger issue and should be resolved as soon as possible.

Thank you CCP.









Just because you trained for a while to get something doesn't make it balanced. Forcing people to have links characters to even compete half the time in a lot of pvp situations is stupid. There is so little risk involved and so much reward and that's not balanced. I don't really see how this is killing solo or small gang pvp at all and it's definitely not killing pve so idk what that's about.

Also afk cloaking is not an issue get over it
Lugh Crow-Slave
#854 - 2016-09-01 00:02:10 UTC
Vald Tegor

reasoning doesn't work on them. They don't want balance they want isk with no risk

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ron Utia
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#855 - 2016-09-01 00:14:30 UTC
Trained passive links on JF alt, little extra ehp and agility
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#856 - 2016-09-01 00:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vald Tegor
PANIC button question: Does it make the ship unable to be locked, unable to activate modules upon, or simply give 100% resists?

The former would give the Rorqual pilot a potential chance to jump out at the end of the invulnerability before they could be pointed. The latter might have interesting interactions with Titan effect generators and wormholes.

Edit: Also, how will that interact with things such as passive shield recharge? non-offensive modules? Will the existing duration of Command Bursts be "Paused" during the invulnerability? If not, can the ship apply command bursts while in PANIC mode or receive them from an external source?
Damocles Orindus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#857 - 2016-09-01 00:42:26 UTC
I find it amusing that PVP'ers with no experience in mining commenting on how Miners should adapt to PVP as the answer to these changes.

First of all, no, the bulk of miners in EVE are massively terrible at PVP and won't get better because you want shiney Rorq killmails. Your suggestion that they lose PVP ships to you as well is a bait or a troll, and in no way genuine.

Second, the "defenses" of the proposed Panic Rorq are anything but. Siege imobilizes the Rorq for 5 minutes, meaning it's dead. The Panic button immobilizes it and its fleet for a short time but does not make the Rorq invulnerable, so it's dead. Once dead, the bubbled/scrammed Exhumers are now dead. Invulnerable does not preclude caught, it just means it's it is waiting to die.

I guess at that point the miner can reship and die to your gang in extra ships. At no point in this cluster of a proposed solutions can a Rorq warp off or give its fleet the ability to fend your gang off better.

So thus, a miner gang which is used to running away like good little prey, has to sacrifice its biggest asset to the hunters and our only suggestion is to die slower and fight them after they've been caught... what a disengenuous and brilliant suggestion 😜

Let's put those Rorqs on the field boys.
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#858 - 2016-09-01 01:36:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Vald Tegor
Damocles Orindus wrote:
I find it amusing that PVP'ers with no experience in mining

false premise

Damocles Orindus wrote:
the bulk of miners in EVE are massively terrible at PVP and won't get better because you want shiney Rorq killmails

Who said I want shiny rorq killmails? I want those who can't handle deploying them to use a weaker booster, giving an edge to those of us who can.

Damocles Orindus wrote:
Second, the "defenses" of the proposed Panic Rorq are anything but. Siege imobilizes the Rorq for 5 minutes, meaning it's dead. The Panic button immobilizes it and its fleet for a short time


No, just because you are immobile does not mean you are dead. You are not going to die because a single interceptor came into your system.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6615635#post6615635
The first loss he linked died to a hound, a curse and a stratios. That should not happen, even if it's just you and your alts.
Vraygan
#859 - 2016-09-01 01:40:08 UTC
CCP, is there a minimum wait time before the Rorqual can use or be affected by PANIC? If there isn't then a few Rorquals could chain PANIC.

On Rorqual, make Industrial core module prevent cyno fields from being activated nearby. If that can be abused, then it can be solved by changing the Industrial Core module so that it has to be activated on an asteroid. And/or it could create a large warp disruption bubble for ships not in the fleet?

To prevent the Rorqual pinnatta situation, I think that PANIC should allow the miners/industrials to attack while invulnerable. Forcing the PANIC to target an asteroid would also prevent abuse, that way there wouldn't be roaming invulnerable industrial PVP gangs ;)
Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#860 - 2016-09-01 02:13:11 UTC
Vraygan wrote:
On Rorqual, make Industrial core module prevent cyno fields from being activated nearby.

Please elaborate on why you would like your Rorqual to lose the ability to Cyno in support ships to defend it.

Vraygan wrote:
If nd/or it could create a large warp disruption bubble for ships not in the fleet?

In other words, passively bubble all the other miners around who do not wish to be subjected to you hitting your PANIC button at a terrible time?

Vraygan wrote:
To prevent the Rorqual pinnatta situation, I think that PANIC should allow the miners/industrials to attack while invulnerable. Forcing the PANIC to target an asteroid would also prevent abuse, that way there wouldn't be roaming invulnerable industrial PVP gangs ;)

A fleet of invulnerable skiffs doing 300+ dps each, man you're on a roll. Are you sure that's safe enough for you? Why don't we just make the Rorqual an invulnerable Citadel while sieged and tether all the barges while they mine.