These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

First post First post First post
Author
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
#441 - 2016-08-31 19:39:28 UTC
Allus Nova wrote:
Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.


If you do can I have your skill points? I give you the injectors for the extraction.

I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#442 - 2016-08-31 19:39:40 UTC
Allus Nova wrote:
Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.



This isn't a gateway to pay2win. This is exactly pay2win out the gate. Free players are nothing but fodder with the SP limits they have set.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#443 - 2016-08-31 19:40:16 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Soltys wrote:
I'd add another constraint:

- cannot inject skills

This should be reserved for subbed accounts only.
Disagree - let them inject 500m carrier skills to their heart's content. Doesn't matter if they can never train them.


Yes, I was too fast. With 5m sp ceiling and skill constraints it's irrelevant. And better for traders at the same time =)

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl

Lugh Crow-Slave
#444 - 2016-08-31 19:41:40 UTC
Ben Ishikela wrote:
uggg.

Now i have a reason to quit this game.

---

(i played this game for free for 3years. it was balanced, i had the same power as others. now it will be a challenge.)


gateway? the ppl that pay have a huge adv over those that are not it is just flat p2w once this goes live
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#445 - 2016-08-31 19:44:05 UTC
So yeah... I can't add anything "constructive" to this Pandora's Box that CCP is about to open beyond, "trash the idea and the person who came up with it."

F2P in any form is, at best, a way to excise as much cash as possible out of a game/franchise.
At worst, it is the first death cry of a game.

I have rarely seen an exception to this.


Time to unsubscribe.
Eli Porter
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2016-08-31 19:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Porter
I understand the faction restriction was put into place so players couldn't reach high SP on a non-paying account.

But for the sake of newbie corps, give us something for flexibility.

Some suggestions:

1. Let them train frigates and cruisers up to level 4, but for all factions.

2. Let them train off-faction t1 frigates and cruisers up to level 3

3. New alpha states start with a skill template that lets them fly all t1 frigates, cruisers and their modules at level 3, but locks further training to their faction.
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#447 - 2016-08-31 19:49:26 UTC
May as well then remove the JC timers.
Every player will now have a free cruiser PVP toons instantly available anywhere including wh's.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#448 - 2016-08-31 19:49:46 UTC
At first glance at the allowed skill list the proposed system seem to be pretty bad case of "pay to win" that these supposedly "free" characters do not have access to T2 guns meaning they will be just a content for paying customers. That is a pretty crappy way of doing "free to play". Either do free to play so that the free dudes are competitive with paying customers at minimum in T1 frigates/dessies or do not do it. As proposed currently it will taste like poop to anyone giving it a try thinking this game has a viable free to play possibility.

Second questionable faucet is locking the skill set according to the race the person picked when creating the character. EVE has always been about being able to correct the choices done - for a start doing it like that will send a totally wrong message to the newbies. The second issue is the racial variation of pirate populations. It is indeed a crappy day if one has to go and take on Angels in an Amarr ship. Why this is an issue - because if the newbie joins an null null entity living, for example, in Pure Blind he will soon find that doing anything pve related in that region in his T1 frigate/dessy/cruiser (without T2 guns) can be alot harder than it should because he picked the wrong starter race!

I would say it might make more sense to set the skill cap so that the free dudes are, at minimum, effective with a frigate, i.e., at minimum allow the T2 guns at lev 4, if these are trained. Set saefty on for aplha clones in hi sec for obvious reasons. Cruisers .. mm .. I'm not so sure about. IF you decide to allow T1 cruisers same approach should be taken, sure knock off the last levels from the skill but allow relevant skills at L4 including T2 ones. Otherwise EVE will get just "pay to win" tag in the internet and that will not help you to lure in the new people you are looking for. It would keep it simpler if there would be only one "alpha" list with all racial ships in it so that the player is free to choose whatever race he desires without being penalized for the decision he made at the start without knowing basically anything about the game or where will he end up in the EVE universe a month down the road.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#449 - 2016-08-31 19:51:19 UTC
Irregessa wrote:
Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).


You forgot the main use of the Leadership skill - allowing you to form a squadron with a maximum leadership*2 members.
Kenny Hahpet
Full Motion Violence MK1
#450 - 2016-08-31 19:53:23 UTC
Far as I can tell alphas if they max out what they can legit train (Advanced Weapon Upgrades 1 can be trained while Weapon Upgrades can only get to 4 :/ ) is about 4300112 SP so provided you can't extract skills you know by default (not checked if you can) then I don't see an issue with sp farming any more than it is now as I don't see it been cost effective.

I will say infomorph psychology needed to be included into the skills or some way to jump out of blingy pod what will be useless as soon as enter a alpha state since skills will disable them.

Other than that aside from alphas only be able to turn safeties to yellow, as it's not even a question on if it will be exploited it's a matter of how many. Should be interesting how many alphas will roam about in faction ships with poor skills :3
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#451 - 2016-08-31 19:55:13 UTC
That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.

As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

Lugh Crow-Slave
#452 - 2016-08-31 19:55:28 UTC
Joanna RB wrote:
Irregessa wrote:
Why is Leadership 3 an Alpha clone skill? Since this is supposed to come out at the same time as the boosting changes, an Alpha Clone won't fly any ship that can boost, nor use any skills that require Leadership (like Fighters).


You forgot the main use of the Leadership skill - allowing you to form a squadron with a maximum leadership*2 members.


you can form a squad with 10 pilots w/o the skill you just can't relay boosts but relaying boosts will no longer be a thing so leader ship just adds range to your boosts

so he is right no reason to train it as the only t1 ship that can make use of it is a BC and they can't train past cruiser
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#453 - 2016-08-31 19:55:55 UTC
Carniflex wrote:
At first glance at the allowed skill list the proposed system seem to be pretty bad case of "pay to win" that these supposedly "free" characters do not have access to T2 guns meaning they will be just a content for paying customers. That is a pretty crappy way of doing "free to play". Either do free to play so that the free dudes are competitive with paying customers at minimum in T1 frigates/dessies or do not do it. As proposed currently it will taste like poop to anyone giving it a try thinking this game has a viable free to play possibility.

Second questionable faucet is locking the skill set according to the race the person picked when creating the character. EVE has always been about being able to correct the choices done - for a start doing it like that will send a totally wrong message to the newbies. The second issue is the racial variation of pirate populations. It is indeed a crappy day if one has to go and take on Angels in an Amarr ship. Why this is an issue - because if the newbie joins an null null entity living, for example, in Pure Blind he will soon find that doing anything pve related in that region in his T1 frigate/dessy/cruiser (without T2 guns) can be alot harder than it should because he picked the wrong starter race!

I would say it might make more sense to set the skill cap so that the free dudes are, at minimum, effective with a frigate, i.e., at minimum allow the T2 guns at lev 4, if these are trained. Set saefty on for aplha clones in hi sec for obvious reasons. Cruisers .. mm .. I'm not so sure about. IF you decide to allow T1 cruisers same approach should be taken, sure knock off the last levels from the skill but allow relevant skills at L4 including T2 ones. Otherwise EVE will get just "pay to win" tag in the internet and that will not help you to lure in the new people you are looking for. It would keep it simpler if there would be only one "alpha" list with all racial ships in it so that the player is free to choose whatever race he desires without being penalized for the decision he made at the start without knowing basically anything about the game or where will he end up in the EVE universe a month down the road.



Honestly it might make more sense to remove SP entirely. The restrictions are mostly geared around industry and specific ships/modules they don't seem to want free players using. If they're going to go free to play, its better to get people into the game and make the extra content worth paying for.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#454 - 2016-08-31 19:56:41 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
That is a bunch of awesome feedback here so far! Thank you.

As a quick reminder, if you disagree with something or if you think that something will be bad, please explain why you are thinking that. Knowing the reasons and your train of though is incredibly more helpful than just learning about the end result.


this is bad because f2p has never left an MMOs soul intact and P2W (what this idea actually is) is probably the most revolting practice any company can push
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#455 - 2016-08-31 19:56:50 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I am okay with this to some extent, however there has to be limits so here are my suggestions:

1 - no level 5 skills period maximum for any of the granted skills should be in the 3 to 4 range
2 - no use of tech 2 or tech 3 items
3 - no use of faction items
4 - no use of research or research farming and no invention
5 - no multiple log ins - even if you have a paid account you cannot create a new alpha and use at same time as your paid account BOTH must be paid
6 - i see it already by no cynos
7 - no use of cloaking

Basically its a way to get people to use small t1 ships with t1 fittings to get the hang of eve for a few months vs the 14 day window, if they really like it they can sub for a few months and then get hooked like we all did many moons ago.

I have seen some ppl raging about PI and not letting them use it, I am fine with letting them use PI - again the restriction on skill level for the skills will keep it inline preventing people from creating 100s of alts.

I think the best way to control 100s of alts is to limit the number of accounts which can have active SP queues. So lets say you put a cap of 5. So I can have unlimited paid accounts but if I create more than 5 alphas the 6th gives a warning that you exceeded the maximum and you either delete one of your old accounts OR this one does not earn any SP. Or just an outright ban on account #6.

Because EvE graciously allows for multiple accounts I think its essential that we have limits both on the number of accounts and when how they can be logged in. As I suggested before you should not be allowed to play Alpha AND Omega at same time, and you should not be allowed to play multiple Alphas at same time ever.

Only paid/sub accounts should have that privilege, and there should never be a pay option to allow that, just subs only.

Thats it for now - I am willing to see how this works, and if it does bring in new people then that is great, but it should not be a way for the many theorycrafters of this game to abuse and manipulate. We are an ingenious, bitter, miserable, wonderful, amazing, evil, wonderous bunch of misfits.

Cheers
~R~

So could I put those 5 accounts on my 4 PC's, 1 mac and 3 Linux - I do have access to a NOC so they could all be separate ip's - I forgot the 3 laptops

Shucks - I guess I could only have 54 free pi alts
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#456 - 2016-08-31 19:57:14 UTC
they had to come up with something cause the numbers dont lie!

eve is dying and not many active players are logging in.. no matter the "events" they tried AND FAILED at..
no matter rise's pretty charts and pies... this game is dying

so why not just go Free to Play all the way.. i mean for the sake of risk why not just take the gamble?

oh thats right cause somewhere, someone will whine about it not being hard enough or elite enough.

they already ruined the game so might as well burn it to the freaking ground.
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#457 - 2016-08-31 19:57:22 UTC
So what will beta clones be?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#458 - 2016-08-31 19:58:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race!
Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora
Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision
Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor

Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!

-Liang

Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones).

You can't make an EVE-like game F2P without it being some flavor of P2W.

Anything passive and significant is a no-go, just asking to get farmed. Passive for a casual = active and massively parallel for someone more serious. Just ask the guy who ran 300 skill farming alts.

This game is a complex EVE-like browser game. Trying to explain it in a few words is a lot like trying to explain EVE in a few words. It has some design lessons which are very applicable to this topic.

A signature :o

PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#459 - 2016-08-31 19:58:54 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Liang Nuren wrote:
Allus Nova wrote:
Wait really? free2play is the gateway to pay2win. If eve goes Free2Play I'm donating my **** to eve uni and biomassing.



This isn't a gateway to pay2win. This is exactly pay2win out the gate. Free players are nothing but fodder with the SP limits they have set.

-Liang

Couldn't you make the exact same case about trial players in eve as compared to subscribers? In point of fact, you could make this case for any mmo that has a free trial with some form of restriction (e.g. character level limits).

Doesn't seem to be a major problem to me, but w/e. Eve is still a subscriber game, just with an extended free trial.

Personally don't have a problem with it as long as they keep multiboxing with alphas in check.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#460 - 2016-08-31 20:00:20 UTC
The recall program needs to be brought back when this goes live, just saying

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.