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Carrier Siege: Bring Carriers in line with Dreads, FAX's, and Rorquals
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#21 - 2016-08-31 16:52:40 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
With fatigue there is already plenty of commitment for you to get talked

As for the draw back carriers use their movement to tank other capitals particularly the armor dreads who have reduced ehp to compensate for this. The use of a carriers for hit and run is also one of the only reasons if not the only reason to use them over haw



Fatigue doesn't have anything to do with commitment. Fatigue has nothing to do with warping to a station / safe. Fatigue has to do with getting to and from the thing you're doing with your carrier.

I'm OK with a carrier using a MWD while engaged. I just don't want it to be able to always warp when it's using it's super awesome bonuses. I'm actually OK w/ a sieged dread moving around on the battle field too. Just now warping/cynoing out. Hit and run is fine too, just make the hit part of it a minimum of 5 minutes.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#22 - 2016-08-31 17:06:56 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:



Siege/Triage modules are about commitment. I think this thread is about carriers having commitment. I like that. They currently stand out among capitals as ships that aren't required to make a minimum time commitment when using their wonderful abilities.ys.

TL/DR: Broken risk averse null carrier ratting sux - the time commitment of a siege type module would make carrier ratting acceptable. I WANT TO GANK MORE THAN AFK / POORLY PILOTED RATTING CARRIERS.


The risk is getting dropped while having your fighters out. How much money is a full squad of t2 fighters again?



No offense intended, but don't fly what you can't afford to lose is posted on every stall door of the noob school sheethouse. By the time you can fly a carrier you should have internalized it.

If you lose a carrier because you were waiting for your fighters to come home.... I can't help you.

PVE - It's not like a ratting carrier has a 3 hour life expectancy. Let's say you rat anoms for 3 hours / day say 3 days a week. That's 9 hrs / week. How much isk can you reasonably expect to make in 9 hours? 300 mil gets pretty insignificant in a short period of time. If you're warping away from your fighters 3 times a day it should occur to you that HED-GP may not be an ideal ratting location. Honestly, there are a lot of carriers ratting in lonely systems that don't see another player for days. You have my permission to find the quietest ratting system possible to do your dirty deed.

PVP - You should really be at peace with the fact you may lose your fighters (and your carrier) every single time you jump/cyno into a pvp situation.


I COULD LOSE MY FIGHTERS is a personal limit you're putting on yourself. It isn't anything carriers should be balanced around. Balancing the game around isk always has and always will be a bad idea.



What the game needs to get back to is being balanced around risk and reward. It currently isn't. You have things like system selection, intel channels, bubbles, alts staged as intel pickets - use the tools provided to safeguard your fighters.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2016-08-31 17:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
With fatigue there is already plenty of commitment for you to get talked

As for the draw back carriers use their movement to tank other capitals particularly the armor dreads who have reduced ehp to compensate for this. The use of a carriers for hit and run is also one of the only reasons if not the only reason to use them over haw



Fatigue doesn't have anything to do with commitment. Fatigue has nothing to do with warping to a station / safe. Fatigue has to do with getting to and from the thing you're doing with your carrier.

I'm OK with a carrier using a MWD while engaged. I just don't want it to be able to always warp when it's using it's super awesome bonuses. I'm actually OK w/ a sieged dread moving around on the battle field too. Just now warping/cynoing out. Hit and run is fine too, just make the hit part of it a minimum of 5 minutes.




O.o five minutes it is no longer a hit and run however i would have no issue with the 60s of the NSA preventing warp/jump this was something i advocated for when it was on sisi (i also feel it should still give a weapons timer)


but wither way the agi of a carrier give you plenty of time to tackle it after it jumps in and the jump timer keeps it from capping up and jumping out.

the few times it is worth using the more expensive more skill intensive ship is to drop it hit your target and try to get out b4 back up shows. another issue with siege is carriers are built around logi. with all the capital reppers being balanced around siege/triage a carrier is better off not using them and for the most part simply can't

these things are not hard to grab and never have been

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2016-08-31 18:08:05 UTC
So if the goal is to make carriers work identically to dreads, are you going to make fighters invulnerable and remove thier travel time, or are you going to make guns destructible and add travel time to them?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#25 - 2016-08-31 18:16:18 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
So if the goal is to make carriers work identically to dreads, are you going to make fighters invulnerable and remove thier travel time, or are you going to make guns destructible and add travel time to them?



don't forget you would also need to make dread guns easy to jam or make it so fighters can't be

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#26 - 2016-08-31 18:16:22 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
So if the goal is to make carriers work identically to dreads, are you going to make fighters invulnerable and remove thier travel time, or are you going to make guns destructible and add travel time to them?



No. It's understood you can lose fighters when you begin training to be a carrier pilot. It's not like "OMG... I lost a fighter" hasn't been a possibility since they were introduced into the game. There is no need to 'trade off' and make fighters invulnerable. There is only a need to accept a minimal (5 minutes is plenty shore) time commitment when COMMITTING a carrier to the field.

Good ideas don't require a compromise.


Lugh - man up dude - it's only 5 minutes.Blink
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2016-08-31 18:43:12 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
[quote=Danika Princip]There is no need to 'trade off' and make fighters invulnerable. There is only a need to accept a minimal (5 minutes is plenty shore) time commitment when COMMITTING a carrier to the field.




so there is no need for a trade off when removing the only advantage of a ship over another?? and five minutes is a long time hell that is long enough for the guy i killed to reship and come back


there is no NEED for a 5 minute time you simply want one. carriers are caught and have always been caught w/o one and currently they are no balanced around needing a timer. dreads and fax get a huge boost to tank and DPS so yes a commitment is needed. carriers commit in different ways during a fight from shutting down e-war to increasing re-load time. they have plenty of vulnerability in battle that are easily exploited not to mention the ship class is much easier to counter than any other capital. i think its one griffin can shut all of its dps off indefinitely with 0 chance to fail.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
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